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Author Topic: Seeking info on M-4 mango  (Read 2311 times)

mangomongo

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Seeking info on M-4 mango
« on: April 11, 2017, 11:14:10 AM »
Does anyone have any info on the "M-4" A forum search did not reveal much, just that it was "sweet like candy" and tasted coconutty.  How does it compare to the Coconut cream ? would it be a replacement for the C/C ?  How long has it been in cultivation/ released? early, mid or late season?

MarvelMango

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 11:42:19 AM »
I bought one today. Don't know much about it. Does it even have a name?

Quentin

mangomongo

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 02:19:58 PM »
I thought maybe it was the one that someone had nicknamed "mounds"  but reading through the threads revealed that one to be the E-4 I Believe?  I was hoping that Rob would have some insight.

Squam256

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 03:17:01 PM »
Yes, that was E-4. M-4 evidently doesn't have as many problems as E-4.

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 09:47:37 PM »
Does anyone have any info on the "M-4" A forum search did not reveal much, just that it was "sweet like candy" and tasted coconutty.  How does it compare to the Coconut cream ? would it be a replacement for the C/C ?  How long has it been in cultivation/ released? early, mid or late season?

M4 blows  Coconut Cream away.  It is way more complex with a slight balancing sub'acidity component. It has just recently been made available although I do find it odd it was let go without being given an actual name.  It is not a colorful/pretty mango on the outside but the taste more than makes up for it.
- Rob

MarvelMango

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 07:14:10 AM »
I heard it can skip years because it holds fruit so late?
Quentin

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 07:38:56 AM »
I heard it can skip years because it holds fruit so late?

Not sure where you heard that.  It is not a super late variety.
- Rob

mangomongo

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 08:50:15 AM »
I just planted my second cocoanut cream, a 15gl at that but im not apposed to taking one out lol. Do you know anything about the growth habit ?

merce3

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 06:58:26 PM »
How does this compare to the others released this year (Phoenix and cotton candy)? Is this one a must have?

FruitFreak

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 07:03:21 PM »
Here we go :)
ZHPP released this?  How long has it been evaluated?
- Marley

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 08:57:44 PM »
Here we go :)
ZHPP released this?  How long has it been evaluated?

It seems it has trickled out albeit without a real name.

This is all paet of the same breeding project that produced LZ, Coconut Cream,  Pineapple Pleasure and all other Zill releases since 2011.
- Rob

Andrew

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 10:01:42 PM »
Is the M-4 another Kent X Gary cross like the O-2? I wonder if it would be a good idea to plant one in a spot fairly close to my O-2, Iím not sure if the cross pollenating would result in a good tasting fruit or not.

FruitFreak

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 10:20:52 PM »
Here we go :)
ZHPP released this?  How long has it been evaluated?

It seems it has trickled out albeit without a real name.

This is all paet of the same breeding project that produced LZ, Coconut Cream,  Pineapple Pleasure and all other Zill releases since 2011.

Very cool that's it's part of that breeding program . M-4 sounds like something I like to chute
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 09:37:40 AM by FruitFreak »
- Marley

Guanabanus

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 10:23:42 AM »
M-4 is descended from Keitt.  M-4 is Mid-to-Late Season, but not Very Late Season.

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

No grafted trees of it have been evaluated.  Same with 'Cotton Candy'(also from 'Keitt' and mid-to-late season).  These two varieties were released due to high connoisseur and staff insistence, despite not having yet undergone a grafted-trees-field-trial planting.  This insistence was because of supreme deliciousness, to pretty much everyone who tried them, and clean appearance, though not at all colorful.
Har

MarvelMango

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 02:08:57 PM »
M-4 is descended from Keitt.  M-4 is Mid-to-Late Season, but not Very Late Season.

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

No grafted trees of it have been evaluated.  Same with 'Cotton Candy'(also from 'Keitt' and mid-to-late season).  These two varieties were released due to high connoisseur and staff insistence, despite not having yet undergone a grafted-trees-field-trial planting.  This insistence was because of supreme deliciousness, to pretty much everyone who tried them, and clean appearance, though not at all colorful.


Ok this is more along the lines of what I heard.
Quentin

Future

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 06:31:19 PM »
I vouch for M-4.  Among more than a hundred varieties I've had the delight to eat, it will join the ranks of a rarified top 10 mango.  Time will tell if it can bump something out of the Fab 5.

starch

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 06:38:31 PM »
I vouch for M-4.  Among more than a hundred varieties I've had the delight to eat, it will join the ranks of a rarified top 10 mango.  Time will tell if it can bump something out of the Fab 5.

Hey Future, thanks for the input!

Just a quick question (and not to derail the thread), what is the Fab 5 in your opinion?
- Mark

Future

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 07:17:01 PM »
I vouch for M-4.  Among more than a hundred varieties I've had the delight to eat, it will join the ranks of a rarified top 10 mango.  Time will tell if it can bump something out of the Fab 5.

Hey Future, thanks for the input!

Just a quick question (and not to derail the thread), what is the Fab 5 in your opinion?

Ah.  Order can change season to season but overall

5. Orange Sherbert
4. Cotton Candy
3. Sweet Tart
2. PPK
1. Lemon Zest

TREESNMORE

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2017, 08:51:21 PM »
Last year Sweet Tart was the best I tasted.
Mike

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2017, 09:29:22 PM »
Ok.  Le's end the thread hijack...

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2017, 10:42:38 PM »
M-4 is descended from Keitt.  M-4 is Mid-to-Late Season, but not Very Late Season.

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

No grafted trees of it have been evaluated.  Same with 'Cotton Candy'(also from 'Keitt' and mid-to-late season).  These two varieties were released due to high connoisseur and staff insistence, despite not having yet undergone a grafted-trees-field-trial planting.  This insistence was because of supreme deliciousness, to pretty much everyone who tried them, and clean appearance, though not at all colorful.


Ok this is more along the lines of what I heard.

You said it skips years cause it holds it "so late".  It is not late as in Beverly, Honey Kiss or the late holding Keitts.  The years I have had the fruit, it is in July and into August, plenty of time to set fruit the following year.  Honey Kiss, also a descendant of Keitt, holds fruit mid/late September and into October and its a year after year workhorse. 
- Rob

palmcity

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2017, 02:08:08 AM »
I bought one today. Don't know much about it. Does it even have a name?


A lot of info on M4  designation to help in remembering M4:::: Just guessing, but this may be why it has been left as is so far. Interesting information on M4 useage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRAO5_ASuqY
Then again, BMW makes a M4 also:::  http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/m4
Maybe the question became in choosing the name, Do I like to remember what I drive/drove, or what I shoot/shot?  :)

As 2 thieves approach the fence, one thief says to the other, "Is this the property we're suppose to rob? Yea........ but I don't think it's a good idea anymore. I overheard 2 guys talking today and they said the owner keeps at least 10 M4's on the other side of this fence."  :)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 07:07:46 PM by palmcity »

MarvelMango

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2017, 06:48:39 AM »
M-4 is descended from Keitt.  M-4 is Mid-to-Late Season, but not Very Late Season.

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

No grafted trees of it have been evaluated.  Same with 'Cotton Candy'(also from 'Keitt' and mid-to-late season).  These two varieties were released due to high connoisseur and staff insistence, despite not having yet undergone a grafted-trees-field-trial planting.  This insistence was because of supreme deliciousness, to pretty much everyone who tried them, and clean appearance, though not at all colorful.


Ok this is more along the lines of what I heard.

You said it skips years cause it holds it "so late".  It is not late as in Beverly, Honey Kiss or the late holding Keitts.  The years I have had the fruit, it is in July and into August, plenty of time to set fruit the following year.  Honey Kiss, also a descendant of Keitt, holds fruit mid/late September and into October and its a year after year workhorse.

M-4 is descended from Keitt. 

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

There is 4 things I was told that seems to be right. And one thing I was told seems to be wrong. I also can be remembering wrong. Thats why I put a question mark at the end of the sentence.
Quentin

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2017, 07:14:51 AM »
M-4 is descended from Keitt.  M-4 is Mid-to-Late Season, but not Very Late Season.

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

No grafted trees of it have been evaluated.  Same with 'Cotton Candy'(also from 'Keitt' and mid-to-late season).  These two varieties were released due to high connoisseur and staff insistence, despite not having yet undergone a grafted-trees-field-trial planting.  This insistence was because of supreme deliciousness, to pretty much everyone who tried them, and clean appearance, though not at all colorful.


Ok this is more along the lines of what I heard.

You said it skips years cause it holds it "so late".  It is not late as in Beverly, Honey Kiss or the late holding Keitts.  The years I have had the fruit, it is in July and into August, plenty of time to set fruit the following year.  Honey Kiss, also a descendant of Keitt, holds fruit mid/late September and into October and its a year after year workhorse.

M-4 is descended from Keitt. 

The fruit size is small.  The number of fruits produced is high.  The original tree has been an alternate bearer.

There is 4 things I was told that seems to be right. And one thing I was told seems to be wrong. I also can be remembering wrong. Thats why I put a question mark at the end of the sentence.

I would also not be surprised to see grafted versions grown in different locations react differently from the mother tree (for a number of reasons).  I have seen it first hand with some of these trees (not M4 but other varieties of the "project").

Many of the parentage of the "project" trees have the Gary mango crossed into it which is very fickle in terms of production and consistency in production.   I have seen the Gary be a consistent heave lroducer year in and out to a non producer and everywhere in between,  depending on where tree is grown.
- Rob

mangomongo

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 08:06:52 AM »
Thank you guys for the info and the background info. I think we are all obligated to plant one and report our findings up the chain of command in a show of appreciation to all of those who worked hard to create these new and delicious additions that brighten our lives. 

8keep

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2017, 08:53:09 AM »
Where can I buy one? Or a cutting so I can graft myself

mangomandan

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2017, 09:14:26 AM »
Thank you guys for the info and the background info. I think we are all obligated to plant one and report our findings up the chain of command in a show of appreciation to all of those who worked hard to create these new and delicious additions that brighten our lives.

I'm going to plant one, strictly for the sake of science.
Since it is a relatively non-colorful fruit I may be safe planting it near the road.

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2017, 09:50:12 AM »
Where can I buy one? Or a cutting so I can graft myself

PM sent
- Rob

CA Hockey

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2017, 03:51:04 PM »

I'm in the same boat. I just recently expanded my Mango collection and came across the m-4 on the internet, but I can't  find a source for trees or budwood. If anyone had any leads I would greatly appreciate it.

-K


Where can I buy one? Or a cutting so I can graft myself

Orkine

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2017, 02:13:31 PM »
Sorry, I am exposing my lack of "currentness" here.
This is the first I am hearing of the M4 mango.  I thought it was a joke, M is for Mango, like A is for Apple but after reading all your posts I am curious and interested enough to want to try this.  Are these available in any South FL nursery yet?

johnb51

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2017, 02:54:08 PM »
Sorry, I am exposing my lack of "currentness" here.
This is the first I am hearing of the M4 mango.  I thought it was a joke, M is for Mango, like A is for Apple but after reading all your posts I am curious and interested enough to want to try this.  Are these available in any South FL nursery yet?
THIS IS NO JOKE.  M-4, the latest flavor bomb from Zill!
John

Orkine

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2017, 10:20:48 PM »
The question now is how do I get one?

murahilin

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2017, 11:46:12 PM »
The question now is how do I get one?

Excalibur may have them. You can call and check.

In about a month I will have a 3 gallon M-4 for sale. I am using the 3G right now as a source of budwood for top-working and once the grafts take for sure, I will sell the 3G.


starch

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2017, 10:04:24 AM »
The question now is how do I get one?

Excalibur may have them. You can call and check.

In about a month I will have a 3 gallon M-4 for sale. I am using the 3G right now as a source of budwood for top-working and once the grafts take for sure, I will sell the 3G.

Sheehan,

would you be willing to sell budwood off that tree first before you sell the tree? I would love to buy some M-4 budwood if it were available!
- Mark

johnb51

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2017, 12:00:16 AM »
So should we consider M-4 right up there with the best of the new Zill mangos: Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest, Cotton Candy, Phoenix, and Juicy Peach?
John

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2017, 12:09:37 AM »
So should we consider M-4 right up there with the best of the new Zill mangos: Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest, Cotton Candy, Phoenix, and Juicy Peach?

Yessiree John
- Rob

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2017, 08:13:09 AM »
  This insistence was because of supreme deliciousness, to pretty much everyone who tried them, and clean appearance, though not at all colorful.

You know the way to a guy's heart.  ;D

mangomongo

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2017, 08:57:17 AM »
Ok so after going directly to ZHPP and asking about the M-4 at time of purchase I was told that it is a keitt seedling which we had already been informed on and that it could in fact alternate years if the crop was heavy the previous year, and that the flavor was not reminiscent of coconut but more of it's parent however not a clone of a Kiett, long season and very tasty.

TREESNMORE

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2017, 04:06:21 PM »
I have one at Trees N More for sell.
Mike

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2017, 12:03:58 AM »
Ok so after going directly to ZHPP and asking about the M-4 at time of purchase I was told that it is a keitt seedling which we had already been informed on and that it could in fact alternate years if the crop was heavy the previous year, and that the flavor was not reminiscent of coconut but more of it's parent however not a clone of a Kiett, long season and very tasty.
We started this thread with the information that it was "coconutty" and far superior to Coconut Cream.  Now we're being told it isn't reminiscent of coconut.  So which is it?
John

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2017, 01:18:24 AM »
Ok so after going directly to ZHPP and asking about the M-4 at time of purchase I was told that it is a keitt seedling which we had already been informed on and that it could in fact alternate years if the crop was heavy the previous year, and that the flavor was not reminiscent of coconut but more of it's parent however not a clone of a Kiett, long season and very tasty.
We started this thread with the information that it was "coconutty" and far superior to Coconut Cream.  Now we're being told it isn't reminiscent of coconut.  So which is it?

No offense but I dont care what he asked someone there what it tastes like.  Its questions like that why they hate the thought of retail sales.  You would have to know them or have dealt with them over the years to understand.

I have had a number of them in multiple years snd they have always had a coconut component. 

To say it is like a Keitt is a joke.  Think about this...if this were the case. Why would anyone rave about it and why would they release it due to popular demand.

And to ask them if they thought it was a replacement for the Coconut Cream...if they were to say yes, they might as well stop propagating the CC.  They are a commercial wholesale nursery that sell the majority of their trees in large quantities to other nurseries.  They eould not say something that would prevent their sales.
- Rob

Orkine

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2017, 03:22:10 PM »
Thank you guys for the info and the background info. I think we are all obligated to plant one and report our findings up the chain of command in a show of appreciation to all of those who worked hard to create these new and delicious additions that brighten our lives.

Agree, just got mine (Thanks to bsbullie), now I plant, wait and occasionally report in. This will be M-4-West-Jupiter   :)

Curious to hear how yours does so please post update if you have one.

mangomongo

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2017, 12:09:04 AM »
I will plant it and post on it.  The general consensus is that it is a top tier mango and just to make it even more confusing it is listed on the  ZHPP list as " coconut flavor".

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2017, 12:24:37 AM »
I will plant it and post on it.  The general consensus is that it is a top tier mango and just to make it even more confusing it is listed on the  ZHPP list as " coconut flavor".

Thats because it does.  Dont put too much crede ce in the descriltion that ig is from a Keitt and is Keitt-like.  I have tasted tbis in past years and I can attest ghat uts not "Keitt-like"
- Rob

mangomandan

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2017, 08:39:49 AM »
I'm planting my M-4 today.  :)  It will compete for space with Spirit of 76----may the best mango win.

Recently planted Kathy, Cotton Candy, and Phoenix and hoping for the best. I'm a great fan of their parentage.

mike rule

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2017, 06:51:02 PM »
Dan.... What a top notch field of Mango's....All are said to be Ist class...... Well done....Mike

palmcity

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2017, 07:36:45 PM »
The question now is how do I get one?

Excalibur may have them. You can call and check.

In about a month I will have a 3 gallon M-4 for sale. I am using the 3G right now as a source of budwood for top-working and once the grafts take for sure, I will sell the 3G.
With a 3 gallon being a fairly small tree usually, what procedure are you using to get the maximum amount of scion chances from the available limbs?

My guess would be from the apical dominant middle shoot removing leaves initially and trying to get the hopefully other available small shoots off it to start growing more. I would also guess upon new buds forming on the apical dominant shoot you would cut off this main shoot and try to make as many scions as possible from it instead of using it all for only one graft attempt; or do you use it all without trying to cut off smaller buds from this main branch.
I guess in a month the smaller limbs would started growing enough to sell.

Of course if you had a apical dominant with say 3 other less dominant limbs coming from the main limb you could just use one of the less dominant limbs removing leaves and waiting on new tip growth.

Which way do you prefer and how small a scion do you use like 4 inch or just multiple smaller sections of buds cut off and inserted as bud grafts into the larger tree as you did mention you were using it "as a source of budwood" was it actually just the buds and a small amount of cambium insert into the new tree to be grafted or larger pieces of budwood as the term does not set a length. Budwood. A portion of a stem or branch with a vegetative bud(s) used in propagation for budding or grafting.

Any thread links would be appreciated if your view is already discussed...

bsbullie

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2017, 09:31:42 PM »
The question now is how do I get one?

Excalibur may have them. You can call and check.

In about a month I will have a 3 gallon M-4 for sale. I am using the 3G right now as a source of budwood for top-working and once the grafts take for sure, I will sell the 3G.
With a 3 gallon being a fairly small tree usually, what procedure are you using to get the maximum amount of scion chances from the available limbs?

My guess would be from the apical dominant middle shoot removing leaves initially and trying to get the hopefully other available small shoots off it to start growing more. I would also guess upon new buds forming on the apical dominant shoot you would cut off this main shoot and try to make as many scions as possible from it instead of using it all for only one graft attempt; or do you use it all without trying to cut off smaller buds from this main branch.
I guess in a month the smaller limbs would started growing enough to sell.

Of course if you had a apical dominant with say 3 other less dominant limbs coming from the main limb you could just use one of the less dominant limbs removing leaves and waiting on new tip growth.

Which way do you prefer and how small a scion do you use like 4 inch or just multiple smaller sections of buds cut off and inserted as bud grafts into the larger tree as you did mention you were using it "as a source of budwood" was it actually just the buds and a small amount of cambium insert into the new tree to be grafted or larger pieces of budwood as the term does not set a length. Budwood. A portion of a stem or branch with a vegetative bud(s) used in propagation for budding or grafting.

Any thread links would be appreciated if your view is already discussed...

If you bud them, you can get the potential for a lot of trees from 1 3 gal.
- Rob

murahilin

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Re: Seeking info on M-4 mango
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2017, 11:58:00 PM »
With a 3 gallon being a fairly small tree usually, what procedure are you using to get the maximum amount of scion chances from the available limbs?

My guess would be from the apical dominant middle shoot removing leaves initially and trying to get the hopefully other available small shoots off it to start growing more. I would also guess upon new buds forming on the apical dominant shoot you would cut off this main shoot and try to make as many scions as possible from it instead of using it all for only one graft attempt; or do you use it all without trying to cut off smaller buds from this main branch.
I guess in a month the smaller limbs would started growing enough to sell.

Of course if you had a apical dominant with say 3 other less dominant limbs coming from the main limb you could just use one of the less dominant limbs removing leaves and waiting on new tip growth.

Which way do you prefer and how small a scion do you use like 4 inch or just multiple smaller sections of buds cut off and inserted as bud grafts into the larger tree as you did mention you were using it "as a source of budwood" was it actually just the buds and a small amount of cambium insert into the new tree to be grafted or larger pieces of budwood as the term does not set a length. Budwood. A portion of a stem or branch with a vegetative bud(s) used in propagation for budding or grafting.

Any thread links would be appreciated if your view is already discussed...

I selected a three gallon with about 4 branches at the top, and then I just used one branch to do a cleft onto my main tree. If that one doesn't take, then I will graft again. I don't want to do multiple grafts and then they all take and I am now stuck with multiple branches of the same variety on my tree. That happened with my Venus grafts and now I have two Venus branches. I have 12 or so varieties on myt tree right now and I am trying to limit to one variety per branch.

I'll try to take some pics in a few days or so. I noticed the M-4 was pushing today, but that doesn't mean anything. Sometimes they push right before they die. Also on a multi-grafted tree, I've had some grafts that take and then push once or twice and then stop and sit there for a year and then die. Those branches just weren't in optimal places on the tree for growth, I guess.


 

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