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Author Topic: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue  (Read 1491 times)

khoi1976

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Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« on: April 18, 2017, 03:45:28 PM »
Ok I tried to hand pollenate my sugar apple tree , per YouTube  video on how to hand pollenate sugar apple . Every single one that I hand pollenate had turn brown and fallen off . Here how they look like after few day from hand pollenate.








cbss_daviefl

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 04:31:34 PM »
Two possibilities are that you are doing it at the wrong time of day or you are not properly identifying when the flowers are in the male and female stages. Sugar apple  needs to be pollinated in the morning. The females are barely open and need to be spread apart. The ovary often appears to be wet when the timing is right. The pollen is a super fine white dust that is barely visible. 
Brandon

LivingParadise

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 04:32:18 PM »
I don't know what instructions you followed, but you do need to start with those that open and are becoming brown, because those are the ones with the pollen. They start off female, and become male, and then fall off. So, you need to wait for one to become old enough to open all the way and have pollen inside, and then take that pollen and put it up inside a female one that is still green but just opened enough to get the pollen in it. If you only have one tree, this is challenging, especially if the tree is young. It may not hold them all either, if the tree is too young to hold many fruit yet. What I did last year is to put a few old male flowers in a tiny ziploc seed bag so I would have pollen available, and then use the pollen on the new female flowers, because the male and female were never open at the same time. It seemed to work, because I got a few fruit, and got no fruit at all except those that I hand-pollinated. I expect to have more than one tree flowering this year, so that will help. But mine are still young and relatively small. I don't have any flowers yet on my trees, so another problem could simply be that's it's a bit earl in the season, and it's also very dry ot and they will probably hold better when there is a lot more rain.

So maybe something I mentioned in here will help you. I know last year I had a lot of trouble figuring this out, but after a number of tries I finally got it.

LivingParadise

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 04:34:06 PM »
A note, I never heard that about sugar apple being pollinated in the morning before, and I did NOT pollinate mine in the morning, but they still made fruit from the flowers I hand-pollinated. I always did it in the late afternoon. Perhaps doing it earlier would result in better numbers, I don't know. But it's not impossible even if you're a night owl like myself.

khoi1976

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 05:50:55 PM »
Ok the flower on the right is open , so that the male and I take the pollen that I can't see and pollenate the one on the left . Switch is bearly open right.


So I took one of the dried out flower and shake it over a container . So is this pollen?


« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 06:00:17 PM by khoi1976 »

Bananaizme

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 05:57:53 PM »
    I have the same problem except with cherimoya. I suspect that  there is not enough humidity to keep the female flower receptive to the pollen. A friend of mine has a dozen or so cherimoyas planted in the ground inside his greenhouse. He doesn't hand pollinate but gets plenty of fruit each year. Only difference between his and mine is humidity .

William



khoi1976

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 06:24:13 PM »
I don't know what instructions you followed, but you do need to start with those that open and are becoming brown, because those are the ones with the pollen. They start off female, and become male, and then fall off. So, you need to wait for one to become old enough to open all the way and have pollen inside, and then take that pollen and put it up inside a female one that is still green but just opened enough to get the pollen in it. If you only have one tree, this is challenging, especially if the tree is young. It may not hold them all either, if the tree is too young to hold many fruit yet. What I did last year is to put a few old male flowers in a tiny ziploc seed bag so I would have pollen available, and then use the pollen on the new female flowers, because the male and female were never open at the same time. It seemed to work, because I got a few fruit, and got no fruit at all except those that I hand-pollinated. I expect to have more than one tree flowering this year, so that will help. But mine are still young and relatively small. I don't have any flowers yet on my trees, so another problem could simply be that's it's a bit earl in the season, and it's also very dry ot and they will probably hold better when there is a lot more rain.

So maybe something I mentioned in here will help you. I know last year I had a lot of trouble figuring this out, but after a number of tries I finally got it.

So are these pollen inside this drying out flower.



And is this a female flower since its not open fully? Or it's a male flower where I collect pollen from.


« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 06:29:11 PM by khoi1976 »

simon_grow

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 06:29:59 PM »
Ok the flower on the right is open , so that the male and I take the pollen that I can't see and pollenate the one on the left . Switch is bearly open right.


So I took one of the dried out flower and shake it over a container . So is this pollen?



That open flower looks like it's in the female stage to me. It needs to open up more to be in the male stage. The open flower in the female stage can turn into the male stage later in the day or the next morning. I don't collect male pollen from brown flowers. I only collect from fully open male stage flowers. The picture of your pollen in actually the male stamen and anthers that hold the pollen. The pollen are much smaller.

Simon

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 06:31:22 PM »
The visible stuff in the picture are the anthers to which the pollen may be attached. The pollen is not visible in the picture but it may be the camera.  It can be visible against a black or very dark background as barely visible white grains.  I prefer to see the females a bit more open than what is pictured on the left but it may be ready. The flower to the right is probably male but sometimes the females open wide.  The brown flower looks like it dropped nearly all of the pollen.  In the afternoons, usually after 6:30pm, I pollinate atemoya and rollinia. Sugar apples are done in the morning before going to work. 
Brandon

skhan

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 09:59:06 PM »
At first I wasn't having much success, I think the reason for this was that I was collecting the pollen too late (mistaking anthers for pollen) and I was trying the pollinate the female flowers too early.

I also find the afternoon, after work, a great time for Atemoya pollinating.
My sugar apple trees are probably a bit to small for me to let them hold fruit, I'll give them another year.

Nisp66

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 10:07:37 PM »
Simon is correct. The open flower in the picture is still in the female state. You need to wait until it turns male. This usually happens after 24hrs. Best times to pollinate is in the morning before 10am or afternoon after 5pm.

Good Luck

Zafra

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 10:15:57 PM »
On this topic, and speaking of youtube videos, I was studying one about hand pollination of cherimoya that talked about humid vs dry climates, stating that in humid climates you don't need to hand pollinate. I thought it had to do with there being or not being pollinators that do their thing with these flowers. I don't get how the humidity can make the difference. Can someone explain?

TheDom

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 10:40:24 PM »
On this topic, and speaking of youtube videos, I was studying one about hand pollination of cherimoya that talked about humid vs dry climates, stating that in humid climates you don't need to hand pollinate. I thought it had to do with there being or not being pollinators that do their thing with these flowers. I don't get how the humidity can make the difference. Can someone explain?
The difference is in humid climates the female part of the flower stays wet, and therefore receptive to pollen, for a longer period. The pollinators can be there in both cases, but in a humid climate you extend the receptive window, which means a higher chance of successful pollination.

Either way, the prudent annona grower absolutely should hand pollinate because it means better fruit set and larger fruit.
Dom

OCchris1

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 01:34:17 AM »
What kind of sugar apple is this? Leaves look more atemoya to me. Good luck! Chris

TheDom

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 08:54:21 AM »

So I took one of the dried out flower and shake it over a container . So is this pollen?


Those are anthers, the things the pollen falls from. The pollen itself is a very fine yellow/white powder. If you're just getting anthers and no pollen, you need to collect pollen earlier in the day. Here in SWFL my atemoyas open in the male stage at about 5:30 give or take.

A black or darkly colored container is preferred for pollen collection because it allows you to more easily see the actual pollen.

I'd also add that for my sugar apples, the first flowers it pushes out are super tiny (maybe 1/2" long) and don't really seem to set fruit or give much pollen. I usually ignore those until I see flowers about 1" long or more.
Dom

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 09:54:51 AM »
The petals are supposed to fall off.  Are you sure that the bases and stems of your flowers are falling off?

All but one of the varieties of Sugar-Apple that I have worked with had viable pollen around sunrise--- some varieties shortly before sunrise, some 1/2 an hour or so after sunrise.  (The exception tree consistently had viable pollen only around 1 PM.)  In dry weather the pollen is uselessly dried up or gone within about 2 hours.

Use fresh pollen.  In dry conditions, tie the flower petals shut with a grafting strip or rubber-band or twistie, to keep both the pollen and the stigma from drying out.

Atemoya pollen is usually available in late afternoon or early evening.
Har

khoi1976

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 11:00:07 AM »
So once you pollenate the female flower . Does the female flower still turn into a male flower  when fully open and can I still collect pollen from iit?

TheDom

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 11:32:10 AM »
So once you pollenate the female flower . Does the female flower still turn into a male flower  when fully open and can I still collect pollen from iit?

Yes.
Dom

khoi1976

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2017, 05:29:22 PM »
Does these look like successful hand pollination ?


cbss_daviefl

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2017, 07:16:41 PM »
To early for me to tell if those are successful.

I took some pics of my atemoyas but sugar apples are close enough.

Female


Female that is wet, camera does not do it justice.


Male with pollen


Pollen on side of container


Loaded brush


Fruit on atemoya


Fruit on rollinia - thinning may be needed  :blank:

Brandon

TheDom

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2017, 12:27:45 AM »
Does these look like successful hand pollination ?


Too early to definitively say, but the stems still look thick and green, and there's good coloration on the part (carpels I think is the term) that would become the fruit. The early signs of fruit set for me are enlargement of the carpels and the stem remaining firmly attached 24+ hours after pollen drop.  If me and a buddy were betting $5, I'd go with them being set, but at $10 I might not take that bet.

Here's a Dream atemoya that I'd bet $20 is fruit set.

Dom

Guanabanus

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2017, 09:16:42 AM »
Yes, both on the Sugar-Apple and the 'Dream' photos, I see fruit set.  But remember, valid fruit-sets can be chucked later due to worsening growing conditions, such as drought and lowered availability of Boron and Zinc.  So keep the soil slightly moist and moderately fertilized.  Too much fertilizer will drop them too.
Har

khoi1976

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2017, 01:11:22 PM »
Would like to thanks all forum members to show me how to hand pollenate my sugar apple . I hand pollenate 20 sugar apple , per member instruction and 16 set fruit . All so I heard if a tree bear to many fruit it will cause the fruit to be poor quality ?

Thanks

fyliu

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 01:26:48 PM »
Depends on how big the tree is. Try to make the fruits set on the bigger branches closer to the trunk rather than on little twigs at the edge of the canopy. And apply a little fertilizer every month of the growing season.

Charlie23

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Re: Sugar apple hand pollenate issue
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2017, 03:32:39 PM »
khoi, if you see black tip like in your picture, likely it's a no go.

 

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