white sapote in the tropics

[buddy roo]

can you grow white sapote in the tropics?? what is the most tropical place that anyone knows of them growing??

[Tropicalnut]

White sapote are from the tropics. I am from El Salvador and they just grow there mostly from seeds and are delicious. One of my favorite fruit as a child.

[buddy roo]

how about the really hot and wet tropics like Vietnam or Sri Lanka is anyone growing them there??

[sunny]

how about the really hot and wet tropics like Vietnam or Sri Lanka is anyone growing them there??

I never see white sapote in real tropics in Asia..

[luc]

It all depends on the variety , I planted seeds collected in the highlands around Mexico City , pomelo size fruit , that was when I just started with tropical fruit ages ago . I planted just one tree ....never got a fruit of it in my climate ( 20 degrees North ) Like Tropicalnut mentioned there are tropical varieties that are really delicious , but even those like a little cold to set lots of fruit or have to be planted at an higher elevation .   

[fruitlovers]

how about the really hot and wet tropics like Vietnam or Sri Lanka is anyone growing them there??

They grow fine here in Hawaii, and it is hot and wet tropics. But they do better on drier side of the island. There are less disease issues in drier areas. But yet it's doable even on wet side of island.

[Tropicdude]

Grow well in the DR.    locals call them "Pera Criolla"   or Creole Pears

[DurianLover]

Hawaii may not be good indicator for those species hanging at the borderline between tropical and subtropical requirements. They fruit lychee at basically sea level my understanding. Lychee not supposed to fruit in real tropics. For DR variety we need to look at elevation fruits are coming from. Perhaps it is truly tropical strain.

[fruitlovers]

Hawaii may not be good indicator for those species hanging at the borderline between tropical and subtropical requirements. They fruit lychee at basically sea level my understanding. Lychee not supposed to fruit in real tropics. For DR variety we need to look at elevation fruits are coming from. Perhaps it is truly tropical strain.

What you say is misleading. Most lychee varieties do not fruit well in Hawaii. The ones that do, like Kaimana, have been selected over long period of time and are special varieties for Hawaii. And no lychee variety at all fruits well here at sea level. Because of elevation we do have areas that are subtropical. But at sea level it is plenty tropical here.

[bbudd]

North Thailand and at 2 years old my white sapote is looking happy and healthy

[Finca La Isla]

In Costa Rica it is native, I think, and does best with altitude, like at least 3000’, better 5000’.  It’s called matasano.  We don’t see it in the wet lowlands.
Peter

[DurianLover]

In Costa Rica it is native, I think, and does best with altitude, like at least 3000’, better 5000’.  It’s called matasano.  We don’t see it in the wet lowlands.
Peter

Thank you. That puts a cork into discussion.
Oscar, University of Hawaii has something different to say about lychee at sea level: https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-2.pdf

My understanding there are four species were production would be highly questionable in wet lowlands of deep tropics: lychee, green sapote, white sapote and macadamias. All of them doable with some elevation minimum 3000 feet. At this elevation, many tropicals grow, but won't fruit. Around 5000 is strictly subtropical. Around 6500 in tropics you can start thinking about apples and pears.

[sunny]

We have many linchee in Thailand, from north big one jakrapat and from south small linchee kom..

But white sapote i don't know.

[fruitlovers]

In Costa Rica it is native, I think, and does best with altitude, like at least 3000’, better 5000’.  It’s called matasano.  We don’t see it in the wet lowlands.
Peter

Thank you. That puts a cork into discussion.
Oscar, University of Hawaii has something different to say about lychee at sea level: https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-2.pdf

My understanding there are four species were production would be highly questionable in wet lowlands of deep tropics: lychee, green sapote, white sapote and macadamias. All of them doable with some elevation minimum 3000 feet. At this elevation, many tropicals grow, but won't fruit. Around 5000 is strictly subtropical. Around 6500 in tropics you can start thinking about apples and pears.

Again what you say is misleading. No cork at all. Costa Rica is about 9 degrees north of euator. Hawaii is 19 degrees north of equator. Both are inside zone of tropics. But ofcourse your going to need more altitude in Costa Rica to get cool temperatures than you are here.  Right at the eauator you would need even higher elevations than in Costa Rica to grow white sapote, does that mean that Costa rica is not tropical compared to Ecuador?
Also i challenge you to find any fruiting lychees here at sea level, unless they are specical tropical cultivars.

[DurianLover]

Oscar, please look around at other places around 19th latidue. Soon you will realise Hawaii is in unique position. Sort of coolish tropicals unlike anywhere else. Possibly influence of ocean currents around Hawaii,  not sure. Compare 10 days forecast Hilo vs Puerto Vallarta. Both coastal cities at almost indentical latidue. Hilo is noticeablly cooler. If it's sunny or partly cloudy everywhere else in tropics at this time and latidue would be 90 F. Hilo shows 84-85. You are able to grow all ultra tropicals along side those with coolish requirements,  something that would be impossible anywhere else in tropics with the same latidue and altidue.
What is misleading is to give thread starter a blank recommendatio without mentioning other factors.  Poor guy could have wasted 20 years growing ornamental tree like it happened to Luc.

[buddy roo]

are there any varieties that may stand a better chance than others??

[fruitlovers]

Oscar, please look around at other places around 19th latidue. Soon you will realise Hawaii is in unique position. Sort of coolish tropicals unlike anywhere else. Possibly influence of ocean currents around Hawaii,  not sure. Compare 10 days forecast Hilo vs Puerto Vallarta. Both coastal cities at almost indentical latidue. Hilo is noticeablly cooler. If it's sunny or partly cloudy everywhere else in tropics at this time and latidue would be 90 F. Hilo shows 84-85. You are able to grow all ultra tropicals along side those with coolish requirements,  something that would be impossible anywhere else in tropics with the same latidue and altidue.
What is misleading is to give thread starter a blank recommendatio without mentioning other factors.  Poor guy could have wasted 20 years growing ornamental tree like it happened to Luc.

Why don't you look at original question: :
"can you grow white sapote in the tropics? what is the most tropical place that anyone knows of them growing?"
We are in the tropics and we can grow them. This person did not specify where in the tropics they are.( And their addy shows they are in Calfiornia.) The tropics is a large area, and even lowland tropis is very different from place to place.
You make comparision of white sapote with lychee. But actually the white sapote is much more widely adapted then lychee. White sapote can fruit at sea level here, lychee can not. I am going by actual experience and observation, not something i read online, like you.

[fruitlovers]

are there any varieties that may stand a better chance than others??

McDill does really well here.
For more information try reading this thread about cultivars that do well in Florida. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1073.0;nowap
Where in the tropics are you planning on growing them?

[buddy roo]

Hi Oscar, yes i am in Ca. but i asked this question after someone in Sri Lanka told me that they would not grow there i thought that a bit odd  as i thought they was really quite tropical , there are a lot of us today in Calif. and else where that are growing things today that yesteryear   we where told would not grow here, but somehow someone finds 1 that will and we go on from there.

[Bush2Beach]

What variety are those huge Lychee tree's in Hilo Arboretum that go off every year?  Those can't be over 100 ft. Elevation or so...

Rainbow W. Sapote grow's slowest for me so it could be one more appropriate for hotter climates.

[fruitlovers]

What variety are those huge Lychee tree's in Hilo Arboretum that go off every year?  Those can't be over 100 ft. Elevation or so...

Rainbow W. Sapote grow's slowest for me so it could be one more appropriate for hotter climates.

The elevation at the arboretum is less than 100 feet. There are Kaimanas, Groff, and a few others in there. They are not labeled, and i think some might be seedlings. But no, they do not fruit every year. I would say maybe one in every 5-8 years there is a good fruiting. Mostly it is dependent on whether we get a dry winter caused by El Nino. Dry winters cause stress as much or better than cooler temperatures.
Much better lychee fruiting occurs at the Hilo experimental station. That is at elevation between 600 and 800 feet.

[fruitlovers]

Hi Oscar, yes i am in Ca. but i asked this question after someone in Sri Lanka told me that they would not grow there i thought that a bit odd  as i thought they was really quite tropical , there are a lot of us today in Calif. and else where that are growing things today that yesteryear   we where told would not grow here, but somehow someone finds 1 that will and we go on from there.

White sapote does very well in southern California. There used to be commercial plantings there, so no it is not a tropical tree. In Sri Lanka, because it is close to equator you are going to need some elevation to be able to fruit them.

[Axel]

You can fruit both lychee and white sapote in lowland tropical conditions, but it works thanks to specially selected varieties. Here in Hilo there are specially selected lychee varieties that will flower and fruit without drought & cold stress provided they get pruned and fertilized right after harvest/during harvest and then are left alone, not fed again. White sapote do better upslope but they can easily be drought stressed in Puna next to the ocean in the lava where they can dry out during short dry spells. I've tasted delicious sea level grown white sapote up Hamakua as well, so I tend to agree with Oscar, they seem more adaptable than lychee, doing surprisingly well in super wet tropical microclimates like my own 200 inches per year rainforest climate.

Hawaii is 100% tropical, but unlike Puerto Vallarta and other continental-influenced locations, Hawaii has less temperature extremes, because Hawaii is surrounded by water. Luc's N=1 experiment is an example of the wrong variety for his location, however, it's not enough data to conclude that he couldn't fruit them there. But I don't blame him for not pursuing it further, so many tastier things to grow.

It's not true that Hawaii's "cooler" heat moderation makes it easier to grow highland crops. My place is at 500m elevation and frequent cloud cover and rain keeps us in the 68-80F range. Yet I have the same difficulty with highland crops as Floridians and folks at sea level have, I can't grow highland crops, lucuma won't grow for me but canistel thrives, lilikoi thrives but tacsonia passion vines die. Mountain papayas die, but regular papayas thrive. Cherimoya aren't happy at all here either. I stubbornly try to grow Andean palms but they croak here. I've killed dozens of ceroxylon palms. But some highland plants seem to adapt, for example, white sapote is an exception, same with tamarillos and I did find some lower elevation Vasconcellea that work as well. IMHO lowland tropical isn't defined by the presence of scorching temperatures, but by dew points above 16C and the absence of temperatures below 16C.

[luc]

Quote from Axel : Hawaii is 100% tropical, but unlike Puerto Vallarta and other continental-influenced locations, Hawaii has less temperature extremes, because Hawaii is surrounded by water. Luc's N=1 experiment is an example of the wrong variety for his location, however, it's not enough data to conclude that he couldn't fruit them there. But I don't blame him for not pursuing it further, so many tastier things to grow.

Axel ....they did produce , but only reached ' lemon size ' then aborted ...a long way from the Pomello size I collected . For years now I have been thinking of cutting the whole tree down to a stump and graft the local varieties . Problem is it became a majestic tree and would have to be " pruned down " little by little , otherwise it would affect nearby super producing trees ( not talking about other white sapotes ) One day I will do it , because this fruit reminds me of the great white peaches my grandma used to grow .

[Axel]

Axel ....they did produce , but only reached ' lemon size ' then aborted ...a long way from the Pomello size I collected . For years now I have been thinking of cutting the whole tree down to a stump and graft the local varieties . Problem is it became a majestic tree and would have to be " pruned down " little by little , otherwise it would affect nearby super producing trees ( not talking about other white sapotes ) One day I will do it , because this fruit reminds me of the great white peaches my grandma used to grow .

So there are local varieties in your area that produce well? I've never seen pomelo sized fruit, that's new for me. McDill in California produced orange size fruit, but the fruit was awful, no flavor whatsoever. Speaking of peaches, I panted florida prince peach here in Hawaii. And just for kicks I wanted to verify the no chill requirement, so I defoliated after the second Lahaina noon, ie right after the sun was directly overhead for the second time, and sure enough, after two weeks it started to bloom. Our coldest temp during that time was 68F, it still bloomed!