Small lot import permit

[davidgarcia899]

So I'm returning from Costa Rica later this week and I've never used my permit before to bring stuff back in my luggage. I tried to call the USDA support hotline, but as you can imagine they were very unhelpful. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me how I should pack the seeds and where I should turn them in when I get to the US.

[fruitlovers]

So I'm returning from Costa Rica later this week and I've never used my permit before to bring stuff back in my luggage. I tried to call the USDA support hotline, but as you can imagine they were very unhelpful. So I was wondering if anyone could tell me how I should pack the seeds and where I should turn them in when I get to the US.

When flying in from other countries you will be given a customs form to fill out on the plane. Where they ask you if you are carrying any agricultural products you will say you are carrying seeds. When going through customs they will see that you checked that box and take you to a special lane. If you are bringing lots of seeds you should ask to have your stuff inspected by USDA. They are usually at a different part of the airport. The people that open your bags are Customs Patrol and they usually know next to nothing about agricultural rules. You need also to make sure you arrive during business hours when USDA is open: M-F 8-5, otherwise your seeds will probably be taken away from you for later inspection by USDA. You should make sure all the seeds you bring are not on the prohibited list. For example, all citrus and citrus relatives are prohibited. All the seeds should be clean of pulp and soil and clearly marked on plastic bags with the latin names. Make sure you have a copy of all pages of your permit with you. Small seed lot permit is 3 pages. Reading the permit also is helpful as USDA is getting very picky about every single of their rules being followed to the letter. On the plus side for you Miami USDA(where i assume you are entering?) seems to be the most relaxed and helpful of all the inspection stations. If you have a connecting flight to catch you should give yourself plenty of time, at least 3+ hours as the inspections can take some time, depending on how many people are ahead of you and how many agents they have on duty.

[davidgarcia899]

Do I have to stay there while they inspect them, or is it the kind of thing where I can drop them of and pick them up later. Also, how strict are they on the weight thing?

[fruitlovers]

Do I have to stay there while they inspect them, or is it the kind of thing where I can drop them of and pick them up later. Also, how strict are they on the weight thing?

If you live close to the inspection station you could probably arrange to pick them up later. Not sure what you mean by the weight thing? For large seeds you should have max 50 seeds in each bag. For very tiny seeds they have specified a maximum weight for each bag. Maybe that's what you mean?

[davidgarcia899]

The permit says 50 seeds or 10 grams, so does that mean I can bring 50 seeds of one taxa per packet even if it weighs over 10 grams? Because the way I read it I understood it to mean that each packet could only have 50 seeds or 10 grams which ever came first.

[fruitlovers]

The permit says 50 seeds or 10 grams, so does that mean I can bring 50 seeds of one taxa per packet even if it weighs over 10 grams? Because the way I read it I understood it to mean that each packet could only have 50 seeds or 10 grams which ever came first.

No, that is not correct. Each packet can have 50 seeds maximum. The weight limit is only for very tiny seeds. Those would be very hard to count. So for the tiny seeds only they use a weight limit of 10 grams. Most fruits have large seeds so you don't have to worry about weight limit. Obviously if you put 10 durian seeds or 10 mamey sapote seeds in one packet you are going to have lot more than 10 grams! Even just one of those seeds weighs more than 10 grams.

[davidgarcia899]

Thank you Oscar you've been very helpful, more helpful than the USDA office.

[davidgarcia899]

Oh and one lay question, am I allowed to put anything in the packets so the seeds don't dry out?

[fruitlovers]

Oh and one lay question, am I allowed to put anything in the packets so the seeds don't dry out?

Yes you can use a moistened media, but not soil. Preferred media are vermiculite, peat moss, or sphagnum moss, but paper towel or cotton will also work. You should note that already germinated seeds are not allowed in.

[davidgarcia899]

Oscar, more helpful than the USDA!

[durianwriter]

Can you bring specific  fruit into the USA or just seeds?

[fyliu]

Fruits are a different permit than seeds. I have no experience with that but I'd imagine there needs to be a label sticker on each fruit with origin and export company name. Probably a certificate for irradiation or other treatment that's appropriate for the species.

Anyone know if airports will inspect fruits for consumption? I only know about plants and seeds.

[fruitlovers]

Fruits are a different permit than seeds. I have no experience with that but I'd imagine there needs to be a label sticker on each fruit with origin and export company name. Probably a certificate for irradiation or other treatment that's appropriate for the species.

Anyone know if airports will inspect fruits for consumption? I only know about plants and seeds.

Fruits are a lot more difficult to bring in than seeds. For an inidividual person bringing small quantity of fruit is very diffficult. For a fruit distributor, doing it on a regular basis, it's much easier. I've never tried it due to the hassle. Many fruits are totally prohibited unless treated (irradiated, steam or hot water treatment). Then you would have to prove it with a certificate of treatment. A few fruits don't need treatment, but then you would need appropriate permit, different from seed permit, and the fruits would have to be inspected on arrival.

[tabbydan]

The permit says 50 seeds or 10 grams, so does that mean I can bring 50 seeds of one taxa per packet even if it weighs over 10 grams? Because the way I read it I understood it to mean that each packet could only have 50 seeds or 10 grams which ever came first.

No, that is not correct. Each packet can have 50 seeds maximum. The weight limit is only for very tiny seeds. Those would be very hard to count. So for the tiny seeds only they use a weight limit of 10 grams. Most fruits have large seeds so you don't have to worry about weight limit. Obviously if you put 10 durian seeds or 10 mamey sapote seeds in one packet you are going to have lot more than 10 grams! Even just one of those seeds weighs more than 10 grams.

Is that new, or has that always been the case?
I ask because back when I had an existing permit I remembered reading something similar and having the same reaction that David had.  I though "well this is no good for cacao, durian, mamey (either sapote or americana)..."

If 10 grams is only for tiny stuff then the small seed permit is a lot more useful than I thought it was.

[fruitlovers]

It's nothing new. Large seeds have always been allowed in. They have nothing against large seeds. Actually this is to make it easy for peoply trying to bring in very tiny seeds. They don't have to count them, they can just weigh them, and bring in maximum of 10 grams in each bag.
The rules for the small seed lot permit the way they were written were somewhat vague/ ambiguous. Over the years of dealing with the USDA and with a lot of back and forth i finally figured out what they meant, and the USDA agents also figured out what they meant. They themselves were quite confused initially over some of the meaning.
There was also confusion over the part of only one taxa. What that means is that you cannot mix seeds inside one bag. For example, you shouldn't have 30 seeds durian, 10 seeds mangostenn, and 10 seeds rambutan to make up 50 seeds. It doesn't mean, as many people interpreted it, that you can only have only one genus each in each shipment.
Yes the small seed lot permit is a lot more useful than most people interpret it. Another confusion was that you could bring maximum 50 seeds of each type of fruit. The real meaning is that you should have 50 maximum in each bag. For example if you want to bring 500 mangosteen seeds you can do it. You just need to have 10 bags of 50 mangosteen seeds in each bag. The purpose of this rule is not to limit the amount but to make it very easy for the inspectors to visually inspect the bags through the bag without having to open each bag out and dump them out onto a table.

[tabbydan]

Yes the small seed lot permit is a lot more useful than most people interpret it. Another confusion was that you could bring maximum 50 seeds of each type of fruit. The real meaning is that you should have 50 maximum in each bag. For example if you want to bring 500 mangosteen seeds you can do it. You just need to have 10 bags of 50 mangosteen seeds in each bag. The purpose of this rule is not to limit the amount but to make it very easy for the inspectors to visually inspect the bags through the bag without having to open each bag out and dump them out onto a table.

Just like the weight limit... I always read it that way and assumed 50 seeds max per species.  Its a lot more useful being 1 species per bag with 50 seeds or 10 grams per bag (whichever is greater).
When I had the cert. I never mixed taxa in bags.

Also even if they allow some clean types of media... I figured it was easier on them (inspection-wise) if I packed the seeds with no media.  You can have media on a trip- then wash it out just before heading home that way you make it easier for them (and if they are in a bad mood and likely to quibble about your media, better for you)

[davidgarcia899]

I need to share this. So I literally 30 minutes ago flew home to Miami from Costa Rica. I'm brought home 14 packets of seeds and really stressed about packing them and making sure everything was right. I declared them on my customs slip, but at no point did I have to show my permit, open my bag, or inspect my seeds. They literally x-rayed my bag and let walk out with my seeds without a single custom official opening my bag. Just another reason why I think 90% of federal employees should be fired

[fyliu]

I need to share this. So I literally 30 minutes ago flew home to Miami from Costa Rica. I'm brought home 14 packets of seeds and really stressed about packing them and making sure everything was right. I declared them on my customs slip, but at no point did I have to show my permit, open my bag, or inspect my seeds. They literally x-rayed my bag and let walk out with my seeds without a single custom official opening my bag. Just another reason why I think 90% of federal employees should be fired

Only the ones that pick on the people with bottled water.

[tabbydan]

I need to share this. So I literally 30 minutes ago flew home to Miami from Costa Rica. I'm brought home 14 packets of seeds and really stressed about packing them and making sure everything was right. I declared them on my customs slip, but at no point did I have to show my permit, open my bag, or inspect my seeds. They literally x-rayed my bag and let walk out with my seeds without a single custom official opening my bag. Just another reason why I think 90% of federal employees should be fired

I agree the completely whole thing is insane... but I wouldn't necessarily blame the employees as a group for that.  Also, I don't really see how the private sector is any more sane.  I've seen about an equal amount of completely whacked out things there too (such as a fortune 50 company having a design meeting where they argued that there were "too few buttons" on a cellphone).

I had a similar encounter in transit in France on the way back from Burma.  A French security person asked me to unzip all the pouches in my backpack but then didn't look in any of them.  Part of me wanted to say "Come on, inspect the pouches." but I NEVER criticize security when I'm in the security zone (I don't want a free prostate exam).

On the bright side: you got to keep everything and nothing went to a ag. station and lost viability while waiting for inspection...

[Felipe]

David, so what kind of seeds did you take back to Miami?

[fruitlovers]

Yes the small seed lot permit is a lot more useful than most people interpret it. Another confusion was that you could bring maximum 50 seeds of each type of fruit. The real meaning is that you should have 50 maximum in each bag. For example if you want to bring 500 mangosteen seeds you can do it. You just need to have 10 bags of 50 mangosteen seeds in each bag. The purpose of this rule is not to limit the amount but to make it very easy for the inspectors to visually inspect the bags through the bag without having to open each bag out and dump them out onto a table.

Just like the weight limit... I always read it that way and assumed 50 seeds max per species.  Its a lot more useful being 1 species per bag with 50 seeds or 10 grams per bag (whichever is greater).
When I had the cert. I never mixed taxa in bags.

Also even if they allow some clean types of media... I figured it was easier on them (inspection-wise) if I packed the seeds with no media.  You can have media on a trip- then wash it out just before heading home that way you make it easier for them (and if they are in a bad mood and likely to quibble about your media, better for you)

If you eat the fruits right before boarding your plane, then what you say is possible. And in fact having no medium inhibits the seeds from germinating. Which is also good because germinated seeds are no longer allowed using small seed lot permit. For germinated seeds now they require a phyto.
But if you eat the fruits let's say one week before you board the plane, hen it would be better to have them in medium. Many types of tropical fruit seeds if they dry out are kaput. So it is a fine line decision between having the seeds still viable and not having them germinate on you.
If you are going to hold seeds for two weeks before boarding it might be best to either hold them inside the fruit, or holding them dry for a few days and them putting them in a moist medium.
There is really no problem with having them inside medium for entering USA if it is vermilculite, sphagnum moss, peat moss, wood shavings, or moistned paper or cloth. It is more of a problem if you are entering Canada, NZ, or Australia. Those countries are a lot more picky then USA. Those 3 countries don't consider sphagnum moss or peat moss to be sterile medium, and so do not allow it.
The only medium you should totally avoid is moistened soil or moistened coconut. All coconut parts are prohibited into USA.

[tabbydan]

Yes the small seed lot permit is a lot more useful than most people interpret it. Another confusion was that you could bring maximum 50 seeds of each type of fruit. The real meaning is that you should have 50 maximum in each bag. For example if you want to bring 500 mangosteen seeds you can do it. You just need to have 10 bags of 50 mangosteen seeds in each bag. The purpose of this rule is not to limit the amount but to make it very easy for the inspectors to visually inspect the bags through the bag without having to open each bag out and dump them out onto a table.

Just like the weight limit... I always read it that way and assumed 50 seeds max per species.  Its a lot more useful being 1 species per bag with 50 seeds or 10 grams per bag (whichever is greater).
When I had the cert. I never mixed taxa in bags.

Also even if they allow some clean types of media... I figured it was easier on them (inspection-wise) if I packed the seeds with no media.  You can have media on a trip- then wash it out just before heading home that way you make it easier for them (and if they are in a bad mood and likely to quibble about your media, better for you)

If you eat the fruits right before boarding your plane, then what you say is possible. And in fact having no medium inhibits the seeds from germinating. Which is also good because germinated seeds are no longer allowed using small seed lot permit. For germinated seeds now they require a phyto.
But if you eat the fruits let's say one week before you board the plane, hen it would be better to have them in medium. Many types of tropical fruit seeds if they dry out are kaput. So it is a fine line decision between having the seeds still viable and not having them germinate on you.
If you are going to hold seeds for two weeks before boarding it might be best to either hold them inside the fruit, or holding them dry for a few days and them putting them in a moist medium.
There is really no problem with having them inside medium for entering USA if it is vermilculite, sphagnum moss, peat moss, wood shavings, or moistned paper or cloth. It is more of a problem if you are entering Canada, NZ, or Australia. Those countries are a lot more picky then USA. Those 3 countries don't consider sphagnum moss or peat moss to be sterile medium, and so do not allow it.
The only medium you should totally avoid is moistened soil or moistened coconut. All coconut parts are prohibited into USA.

In the post you quoted I was saying discard the media just before heading home.

That being said, I've actually had good results on some things with no media for a prolonged time (1 week, 2 weeks,...).  If you put the seeds in a ziplock bag, keep them clean... you can actually slow germination of things like durian and mangosteen.  I like that because if they germinate the radicals can get bumped, break off and then you have a dead seed.  When I do medialess storage I wash off the seeds typically more than once to get rid of any pulp, and try to pack them w/o extra water (pat dry).  Other things are less happy with medialess packing like Bunchosa which tends to rot.

[fruitlovers]

Yes the small seed lot permit is a lot more useful than most people interpret it. Another confusion was that you could bring maximum 50 seeds of each type of fruit. The real meaning is that you should have 50 maximum in each bag. For example if you want to bring 500 mangosteen seeds you can do it. You just need to have 10 bags of 50 mangosteen seeds in each bag. The purpose of this rule is not to limit the amount but to make it very easy for the inspectors to visually inspect the bags through the bag without having to open each bag out and dump them out onto a table.

Just like the weight limit... I always read it that way and assumed 50 seeds max per species.  Its a lot more useful being 1 species per bag with 50 seeds or 10 grams per bag (whichever is greater).
When I had the cert. I never mixed taxa in bags.

Also even if they allow some clean types of media... I figured it was easier on them (inspection-wise) if I packed the seeds with no media.  You can have media on a trip- then wash it out just before heading home that way you make it easier for them (and if they are in a bad mood and likely to quibble about your media, better for you)

If you eat the fruits right before boarding your plane, then what you say is possible. And in fact having no medium inhibits the seeds from germinating. Which is also good because germinated seeds are no longer allowed using small seed lot permit. For germinated seeds now they require a phyto.
But if you eat the fruits let's say one week before you board the plane, hen it would be better to have them in medium. Many types of tropical fruit seeds if they dry out are kaput. So it is a fine line decision between having the seeds still viable and not having them germinate on you.
If you are going to hold seeds for two weeks before boarding it might be best to either hold them inside the fruit, or holding them dry for a few days and them putting them in a moist medium.
There is really no problem with having them inside medium for entering USA if it is vermilculite, sphagnum moss, peat moss, wood shavings, or moistned paper or cloth. It is more of a problem if you are entering Canada, NZ, or Australia. Those countries are a lot more picky then USA. Those 3 countries don't consider sphagnum moss or peat moss to be sterile medium, and so do not allow it.
The only medium you should totally avoid is moistened soil or moistened coconut. All coconut parts are prohibited into USA.

In the post you quoted I was saying discard the media just before heading home.

That being said, I've actually had good results on some things with no media for a prolonged time (1 week, 2 weeks,...).  If you put the seeds in a ziplock bag, keep them clean... you can actually slow germination of things like durian and mangosteen.  I like that because if they germinate the radicals can get bumped, break off and then you have a dead seed.  When I do medialess storage I wash off the seeds typically more than once to get rid of any pulp, and try to pack them w/o extra water (pat dry).  Other things are less happy with medialess packing like Bunchosa which tends to rot.

Oh, ok, i misunderstood you. But it's not necessary to discard media for inspection purposes. As i said USDA doesn't care if you have media, as long as it's not soil or coconut coir, or coconut peat. I would suggest not having too much media in the bag, so that it's very easy for them to see the seeds easily. Remember you are just trying to keep the seeds moist, and for that purpose even a very small piece of moistened cotton or moistened little piece of cloth will work. You're not planting the seeds...you just want to maintain high moisture level in the bag.
About breaking the sprouts, that is a problem, especially with very fragile seeds like durian. But a bigger problem than breaking the sprout is that germinated seeds will be confiscated by USDA. It used to be just a year ago that they allowed germinated seeds, as long as no root parts were forming yet. But in last year they have become totally stringent, and any germination makes the seed become a plant in their eyes, and therefore requires a phyto certificate.
About how long seeds can stay dry, yes that varies a lot from species to species. Usually the softer seeds last the least and the harder seeds last the longest.