What are your favorite polyembryonic mangoes?

[simon_grow]

Hello everyone, I'm trying to figure out what everyones favorite polyembryonic mangoes are.  I live in Southern California and want to grow a large mango tree and would like to plant the seeds of some good tasting polyembryonic mangoes.  I currently have a Nam Doc Mai tree but it is growing extremely slow.  I would like to first know what varieties are considered good tasting and then I would like to acquire some seeds.  I hope that by planting the seeds of polyembryonic mangoes and also innarching them with multiple rootstocks that I can get a good sized tree quickly.  Most of my grafted mangoes are growing at a slow to medium rate.  If anyone has any polyembryonic mango seeds besides Manilla/Ataulfo/Champaign, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks in advance!
Simon

[BMc]

Kensington Pride. 

[simon_grow]

  BMc, how did I know you we're going to vote Kensington Pride?

[Tropicdude]

Probably the best two Poly I know of are the Pickering and Lemon Zest.    I have both trees, although not producing fruit yet.  Those two are well liked by most people.  there are many other polyembryonic varieties, like Florigon, Rosigold, Lemon meringue , etc.

Why your interest in Polyembryonic by the way?

Poly is ok for propagating plants that are similar to the parent, but it takes a lot longer for the tree to become productive.  Poly can be used as root stock because of its consistency for plantations, but they usually use a specific variety like turpentine, Gomera .

Kensington Pride, also makes a good rootstock, read a report where they did a trial of KP on 64 different rootstocks   KP on KP did very well.

http://www.google.com.do/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhortsci.ashspublications.org%2Fcontent%2F43%2F6%2F1720.full.pdf&ei=GfJhUKaYBYLY9AS4roCwAQ&usg=AFQjCNGNV4xN5FfWpKBwou-Fsld_h5RtcA&sig2=QQKsbLB3M8UiGP-U5GUMVw&cad=rja

[HMHausman]

Probably the best two Poly I know of are the Pickering and Lemon Zest.    I have both trees, although not producing fruit yet. 

News to me that either of these is poly embryonic.

[nullzero]

Simon,

Should get some of the CA grown Keitt mangoes and save the seeds. Adaptation to our climate should be excellent. Currently, I have Kent, Manilla/Ataulfo/Champaign, and Keitt mango seedlings going.

[Tropicdude]

Probably the best two Poly I know of are the Pickering and Lemon Zest.    I have both trees, although not producing fruit yet. 

News to me that either of these is poly embryonic.

My trees have not produced fruit yet, so have no way of confirming first hand, I went by our "Master List", maybe someone can verify and make corrections to the list if they are not Poly.

[Tim]

Isn't Keitt mono?

[SWRancher]

Probably the best two Poly I know of are the Pickering and Lemon Zest.    I have both trees, although not producing fruit yet. 

News to me that either of these is poly embryonic.

Same here, although I have not planted any Pickering or LZ seedlings to find out. 

[HMHausman]

I am not sure about Lemon Zest.  It is new to me and I have never seen its seed.  I just spoke to murahilin and he advises that Jeff Hagen planted them out and found them to be poly.  However, Murahilin says he opend a couple of seeds and did not find the ones he opened to be poly.  I likewise haven't examined closely the Pickering.  I have always assumed it was mono.  The list says otheriwse.  Will the person who listed this info on the list step forward and provide their method of establishing this?

[simon_grow]

It would be great if Pickering and Lemon Zest is truly polyembryonic. 

Null, I too planted a lot of Kent, Manilla, and Keitt seedlings.  I plan on growing these three varieties in the same hole in very close proximity and then innarching them all into one plant and then I will graft a named cultivar on top. 

Tropicdude, I want to plant out polyembryonic mango seeds because at least one of the sprouts is supposed to be a clone of the parent tree.  I have had good luck planting mango seeds and they really take off and adapt to my poor clay soil very quickily.  I live in San Diego and occasional winter frosts tend to kill back our mango trees about every 4-8 years from what I have read.  I want to get a really large mango tree with good quality fruit.  I am afraid that if I were to plant out a mono embryonic mango seed and then graft a named cultivar on top, it would slow down the growth of the tree. 

It would be cool to compare the growth and precocity of a Nam Doc Mai(for example only) grown from seed, no grafting at all, and compare it to a NDM that is grafted onto a single seedling, and also compare it to a NDM that is grafted onto a triplerootstock seedling.

If anyone has any polyembryonic mango seeds to spare, including NDM, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks,

Simon

[bsbullie]

I too was under the impression that LZ and OS were poly but question Pickering being poly.  I planted out some OS seeds and I have ignored them.  Need to go see what they look like.

[HMHausman]

I too was under the impression that LZ and OS were poly but question Pickering being poly.  I planted out some OS seeds and I have ignored them.  Need to go see what they look like.

Since they are supposedly progeny from PPK, I guess they might be.  But our master mango list doesn't indicate PPK as being poly.  And, what I have seen of LZ....it doesn't look poly from the exterior.  But that would certainly not be definitive.

[nullzero]

In a poly mango, the slower growing stem after sprouting is usually the copy of the parent mango correct?

[BMc]

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=oloEhPYqE8QC&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=polyembryonic+mango&source=bl&ots=nn_2wjXM_Y&sig=iV9ZlXJ-0OXkVSXW0SsUjIyRNuU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Xj1iUN_eKcKiigf89IE4&ved=0CGoQ6AEwDTgK#v=onepage&q=polyembryonic%20mango&f=false

p.369

[Tomas]

My Pickering seedling only have one sprout.

Tomas

[Mike T]

Don't clonal seedlings dominate in poly seeds and the rare non clonals die off anyway? KP's are essentially all true from seed without selecting stronger or weaker ones.

[bsbullie]

I too was under the impression that LZ and OS were poly but question Pickering being poly.  I planted out some OS seeds and I have ignored them.  Need to go see what they look like.

Since they are supposedly progeny from PPK, I guess they might be.  But our master mango list doesn't indicate PPK as being poly.  And, what I have seen of LZ....it doesn't look poly from the exterior.  But that would certainly not be definitive.

That is the problem with a "list" that is a free for all for anyone to edit (to some degree like wiki)...when anyone can go in and type whatever info they want, what way is there to make sure what anybody/everybody types is correct/factual?

[Tropicdude]

Isn't Keitt mono?

Yep Keitt I can verify is Mono, have planted many of these, to have practice rootstocks. always come up singles.  the local variety "Banilejo" is poly, pops up 2-3 more after the main one and is also the preferred rootstock here..    Manila is also poly.  hope the LZ / Pickering can be confirmed. I tried looking for info on the web on the Pickering, but didn't find anything that mentioned anything on the seed.  anyway hope whoever marked Pickering as Poly, has first hand experience.

Simon, you also might want to try some of the Asian markets, see what you can find, some locals may be selling back yard grown fruit. try the fruit then open the seed, you can tell right away when they are poly.

In Fla, from what I can tell, is out of Mango season, for 2012, whatever few mangoes are on trees seem to be Keitts, not sure if anyone has Neelams, ( I would like to know if they are later than Keitts ). but those are listed as Mono.   Some trees seem to be out of whack this year, so who knows maybe you will get lucky.

[Squam256]

Pickering is monoembryonic.

[bsbullie]

Isn't Keitt mono?

Yep Keitt I can verify is Mono, have planted many of these, to have practice rootstocks. always come up singles.  the local variety "Banilejo" is poly, pops up 2-3 more after the main one and is also the preferred rootstock here..    Manila is also poly.  hope the LZ / Pickering can be confirmed. I tried looking for info on the web on the Pickering, but didn't find anything that mentioned anything on the seed.  anyway hope whoever marked Pickering as Poly, has first hand experience.

Simon, you also might want to try some of the Asian markets, see what you can find, some locals may be selling back yard grown fruit. try the fruit then open the seed, you can tell right away when they are poly.

In Fla, from what I can tell, is out of Mango season, for 2012, whatever few mangoes are on trees seem to be Keitts, not sure if anyone has Neelams, ( I would like to know if they are later than Keitts ). but those are listed as Mono.   Some trees seem to be out of whack this year, so who knows maybe you will get lucky.

As far as which is later, Neelam or Keitt...Neelam ripens later although Keitts can hang on the tree for a long time after ripening.  With that being said, in any given year, you could potentially have both varieties available to the bitter end. 

While I won't rule out any mangoes still available down here, I will also say good luck to those out in search of...

[fyliu]

Don't clonal seedlings dominate in poly seeds and the rare non clonals die off anyway? KP's are essentially all true from seed without selecting stronger or weaker ones.

I thought it was the opposite where fertilized embryos have the advantage of being connected to the cotyledons. Maybe it depends on the variety where some variety make non-viable offsprings that are much weaker than mother tissue.

[BMc]

From the link posted above - the mango book p.369

‘In polyembrionic seeds, only one embryo is zygotic in origin; it either degenerates or produces weak and stunted seedlings … Nucellar seedlings can be distinguished from the zygotic seedling on the basis of their greater vigour circa 1 month after germination.’

[Tropicdude]

Don't clonal seedlings dominate in poly seeds and the rare non clonals die off anyway? KP's are essentially all true from seed without selecting stronger or weaker ones.

I thought it was the opposite where fertilized embryos have the advantage of being connected to the cotyledons. Maybe it depends on the variety where some variety make non-viable offsprings that are much weaker than mother tissue.

On the Manila I planted, the first sprout was big and strong, came up only after 5-6 days after planting the seed, almost 2 weeks later a smaller plant sprouted from the seed.  I recently separated them, now they are in individual pots.

From discussion on this before in another thread , I gathered from that thread that its the smaller offspring that are the clones of the mother plant. and the first strong one is the one that has crossed and wont come up true to parent.  I marked my two plants, "Manila", and "Manila Seedling" but really I wish I was 100% sure.

[bsbullie]

The two OS seeds I have germinated are poly.  I also germinated an "Oh Too" (one of Zill's experimentals that is supposed to be a Kent cross with a _______ ...I am currently drawing a blank, Alex?) and it seems it is poly...