What are your favorite polyembryonic mangoes?

[Squam256]

O-2 is probably a Kent x Gary cross.

It appears several of these supposed Gary crosses may be polyembryonic.

[Hollywood]

I don't know much about this topic, but I do know that several sprouted seeds that I have come across while weeding have had several sprouts. I have a Glenn and a Valencia Pride and am not sure which tree they came from.

[mangomandan]

O-2 is probably a Kent x Gary cross.

It appears several of these supposed Gary crosses may be polyembryonic.

I was gonna say that the best mangos are all mono, but it appears I am mistaken.

[fruitlovers]

In a poly mango, the slower growing stem after sprouting is usually the copy of the parent mango correct?

This should be an FAQ. And i've heard arguments on both sides. There was a thread about this before, but forget what the agreed conclusion was?

[fruitlovers]

O-2 is probably a Kent x Gary cross.

It appears several of these supposed Gary crosses may be polyembryonic.

I was gonna say that the best mangos are all mono, but it appears I am mistaken.

The Indian mangos are mostly mono, and the Thai/Viet. mangos are mostly poly. I thought LM was Thai? So it's probably poly?

[Mike T]

KP is a poly of indian heritage.I have not heard of untrue seedlings just different variation that are pretty good.There are seedling plantations and people  just keep the strongest.All over asia poly seeds are planted with good results.Many people will know the answer to the strongest or weakest seedling question with certainty.I used to be sure it was the strongest shoots to emerge but not always the first.My favorites are all polys.

[bsbullie]

O-2 is probably a Kent x Gary cross.

It appears several of these supposed Gary crosses may be polyembryonic.

I was gonna say that the best mangos are all mono, but it appears I am mistaken.

The Indian mangos are mostly mono, and the Thai/Viet. mangos are mostly poly. I thought LM was Thai? So it's probably poly?

If by your post, LM is Lemon Meringue or PPK/Pu Pyi Klai, then yes it should be poly (and I believe it is originally from Burma, so the story goes).  That is why the LZ and OS should both be poly, as they are seedlings of PPK/LM (now obviously when Gary did this he knew which one was the "mother sprout" and chose to grow out one of the others in search of a new variety...or ultimately LZ and OS).

[phantomcrab]

I'll post this again.

An interesting little fact about polyembryony:
It has been observed that some of the monoembryonic varieties may revert to polyembryony when grown under different sets of soil and climatic conditions.
Some of the Indian varieties which were mostly monoembryonic produced more than one seedling in the Philippines. 
From:
http://www.ikisan.com/Crop%20Specific/Eng/links/ap_mangoVarieties.shtml

[HMHausman]

Seems I've seen multiple sprouts from a suppoosedly mono seed.  I think it is very possible for multiple sprouts to be grown from the same genetic portion of a seed.  The question is really whether there are various segments of the seed that are not genetically identical that are pushing the sprouts.  With a truly poly seed, each segment of the seed will send up a sprout and the segments that are identical to the parent will obviously be clones of the parent.  While the seed segment that is a sexual reproduction will be a new individual no matter how many shoots come up from that particular segment. Sometimes when the initial sprout is damaged or lost to other causes, the remaining seed will sometimes push several new sprouts giving the appearance of the type of spouting you see in a poly mango seed.  That's my theory anyway.  Any thoughts?

Harry

[cbss_daviefl]

Seems I've seen multiple sprouts from a suppoosedly mono seed.  I think it is very possible for multiple sprouts to be grown from the same genetic portion of a seed.  The question is really whether there are various segments of the seed that are not genetically identical that are pushing the sprouts.  With a truly poly seed, each segment of the seed will send up a sprout and the segments that are identical to the parent will obviously be clones of the parent.  While the seed segment that is a sexual reproduction will be a new individual no matter how many shoots come up from that particular segment. Sometimes when the initial sprout is damaged or lost to other causes, the remaining seed will sometimes push several new sprouts giving the appearance of the type of spouting you see in a poly mango seed.  That's my theory anyway.  Any thoughts?

Harry

When I tried some epicotyl grafting on seedlings that sprouted under my Glenn, they failed after pushing some growth.  The inital seedling totally died back and multple sprouts popped up later.

[MangoFang]

I've planted an Okrung and a....gosh what was it.....a pina colada and they both produced
multiple sprouts, but again, not sure if they are Poly or Mono's just multi-sprouting.  Wish there
were definitive answers to all these questions - who lkes to grow something that's not what you think
it is and have no idea what will be produced and hate the 5 year wait to be delighted or disappointed?

Not me.


Gary

[mathmom]

A few evenings ago in my late night research on mono/polyembryonic research, I found lots of conflicting info on which sprouts are the nucellar ones in poly seeds.  I finally found one article, which I should have bookmarked, that indicated that the variety of mango determined whether the strong one/s were the clones and the weak ones the sexually produced zygotes, or vice-versa.  This seemed the only logical explanation for all the conflicting information.  It was definitely not an article of US origin, and was academic in nature, but it was probably 1:00 am at the time so that's all I remember.

[Tropicdude]

A few evenings ago in my late night research on mono/polyembryonic research, I found lots of conflicting info on which sprouts are the nucellar ones in poly seeds.  I finally found one article, which I should have bookmarked, that indicated that the variety of mango determined whether the strong one/s were the clones and the weak ones the sexually produced zygotes, or vice-versa.  This seemed the only logical explanation for all the conflicting information.  It was definitely not an article of US origin, and was academic in nature, but it was probably 1:00 am at the time so that's all I remember.

I think you may be on to something,  If i remember correctly  Mike said that with Kensington Pride, they use the strongest "first" sprout  which is the clone on that variety.

[DuncanYoung]

http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1968%20Vol.%2081/311-318%20(STURROCK).pdf

Interesting reading on the topic.

[DuncanYoung]

http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1967%20Vol.80/350-354%20(STURROCK).pdf

Also interesting. 

[Tropicdude]

In some polyembryonic varieties there appears
to be a zygotic embryo in addition to these
nucellar embryos. In other varieties there ap
pears to be only the nucellar types. In these
latter cases all the seedlings originating from
these seeds will be identical to the mother plant.

This seems to confirm the theory, that the clone will depend on the variety.   So it is possible that my main "first" sprout off my Manila seed, is the actual clone, and the smaller ones that came after can also be clones,  or The main sprout is a zygote, and the smaller ones are clones.

this would make everything a lot more complicated.

[Recher]

Kensington Pride... inexplicably not more widely grown esp. where anthracnose not a drama

[aiwelaweka]

Don't clonal seedlings dominate in poly seeds and the rare non clonals die off anyway? KP's are essentially all true from seed without selecting stronger or weaker ones.

I thought it was the opposite where fertilized embryos have the advantage of being connected to the cotyledons. Maybe it depends on the variety where some variety make non-viable offsprings that are much weaker than mother tissue.

On the Manila I planted, the first sprout was big and strong, came up only after 5-6 days after planting the seed, almost 2 weeks later a smaller plant sprouted from the seed.  I recently separated them, now they are in individual pots.


From discussion on this before in another thread , I gathered from that thread that its the smaller offspring that are the clones of the mother plant. and the first strong one is the one that has crossed and wont come up true to parent.  I marked my two plants, "Manila", and "Manila Seedling" but really I wish I was 100% sure.

I have planted lots of common mango in Hawaii.  Usually there is one strong seedling that i always assumed was zygotic, followed by 1 to 10 smaller seedlings that are clonal.  The growth of the first seedling of a poly seed matches the growth of a mono seed.  So that's my take.

[james007tgo]

O-2 is probably a Kent x Gary cross.

It appears several of these supposed Gary crosses may be polyembryonic.

[behlgarden]

I am not sure about Lemon Zest.  It is new to me and I have never seen its seed.  I just spoke to murahilin and he advises that Jeff Hagen planted them out and found them to be poly.  However, Murahilin says he opend a couple of seeds and did not find the ones he opened to be poly.  I likewise haven't examined closely the Pickering.  I have always assumed it was mono.  The list says otheriwse.  Will the person who listed this info on the list step forward and provide their method of establishing this?

Harry, my lemon zest seed that I planted into the ground sprouted 6 plants, 5 survived this winter and are growing, but slowly. My plan is to keep all 5 together and inarch them together, want to see what I get when it fruits in several years.

[sapote]

Multi sprouts from the same embryo is not a polyembryonic -- they are like branches , but multi sprouts from different embryos that can be separated with individual embryo to each sprout  is polyembryonic.

[Herman]

I have a few polyembryonic seedlings (multi sprouts from different embryos that was separated with individual embryo to each sprout as Sapote stated) that I planted in 2013.  They are "Tu" mangoes (literally translated from Mandarin Chinese) from Taiwan.  They are small, fibrous, have a large seed to flesh ratio, but I think they are my favorite tasting mangoes.  The skin is thick so easy to peel and eat as well.

There is a picture of these mangoes here (number 3):

http://jetsettimes.com/2013/10/21/20-must-trys-fruits-taiwan/

[gunnar429]

That article mentions jujubes being called dates if they're dried.  Do Taiwanese folks call jujube dates?  The dates I know come from the date palm...not sure if that's misinformation, or just speaking of what it is called in Taiwan.

[Herman]

That article mentions jujubes being called dates if they're dried.  Do Taiwanese folks call jujube dates?  The dates I know come from the date palm...not sure if that's misinformation, or just speaking of what it is called in Taiwan.

I believe jujubes are not the same as the palm dates one thinks of here in the States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube

[gunnar429]

yeah, they are clearly different.