Author Topic: SoCal Mango Questions  (Read 4777 times)

Eirlis

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SoCal Mango Questions
« on: October 22, 2015, 06:40:17 AM »
Hi all,

I ordered these trees from TT about a year ago. Here's what they look like today! The stakes are for winter frost cloth wrapping.

Lemon Zest: some growth, but not as much as I expected given how vigorous this variety is supposed to be. Not enough water maybe since the sprinklers are a bit far away. Or ?? I'm working on hiring a landscaper to install a drip line this fall to solve the water issue.


Coconut Cream: lots of growth,  but weak branches. I've had to tie them to the stakes.


Malika: hardly any growth. Gets less sun than the other 2, but still about 8 hours a day.


Questions:
1. What should I be doing differently to promote more growth? I'm currently fertilizing once a month with a citrus and mango fertilizer.
2. Should I prune them?
3. Can I let the coconut cream hold some fruit next year?
4. I have room for one more tree. What variety should I get? Should I try to get a Cali grown tree instead of another from Florida?

The rest of my orchard has also suffered from the drought and will go on drip lines as well. My non tropical trees are the following: Red Baron peach, Flavor Grenade pluot, Santa Rosa plum, Flavor Delight aprium, Strawberry Fig, Gold Nugget mandarin, and a Meyer lemon. Nothing held fruit this year. :( My poor Pierce cherimoya is a leafless stick and my Reed avocado is awfully sunburned.

I also planted a Purple Haze and a Bien Hoa Red dragonfruit about a month ago which are doing well so far.

Thanks so much for your expertise!
Sarah
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 07:04:58 AM by Eirlis »

bsbullie

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 07:50:49 AM »
To start with,  and other fellow Cali members can chime in, however those are on Turpentine rootstock which has a tendency to struggle in Cali.

As for your trees, the Lemon Zest, its a little week in the trunk and branches.  To avoid weak growth, you could cut the branches back a little but the problem is is that can have positive and negative effects especially if its a rootstock issue.

The growth habit on the Coconut Cream is 100% normal.  Do nothing now and cut back the branches some when your weather warms in spring.  DO NOT LET IT HOLD ANY FRUIT SHOULD IT TRY TO.

The Mallika looks weak and the older leaves show signs of fertilizer burn or watering issues.

In any event, DO NO PRUNING NOW AND DO NOT LET ANY OF THEM HOLD ANY FRUIT WHATSOEVER.   WAIT TILL SPRING WHEN YOUR WEATHER BEGINS TO WARM TO DO ANY PRUNING.

As far as an additional tree, reach out to Frank (JF) on this forum and get something grafted onto Manilla /LaVerne rootstock.
- Rob

simon_grow

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 11:36:11 AM »
I agree with everything Rob recommended. For your last tree, I would definitely order a tree from JF because the rootstock he uses is proven to grow well here.

Simon

TheWaterbug

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 01:25:11 PM »
I'm probably having the same problem with my Keitt and Kent, purchased from Plant-o-Gram in FL. They looked great when they arrived last year, but they've just done nothing in the ground, despite plenty of sun, heat, and water (for SoCal, that is).

They're still alive and green, but they're not much bigger than they were a year ago.

I just received my Tequila Sunrise from Tim Thompson  ;D, which I presume has been better selected for So Cal growing, so we'll see how that does in comparison.
Sunset 23/USDA 11a, Elev. 783', Frost free since 8,000 BC. Plagued by squirrels, gophers, and peafowl, but coming to terms with it!

BestDay

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 01:26:13 PM »
Mulch heavily around the trees so they don't have to compete with the grass.

Bill

bsbullie

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 01:57:38 PM »
Mulch heavily around the trees so they don't have to compete with the grass.

Bill

Actually best to clear large ring around the tree to be grass free (pull the grass, do not spray).  With trees of this young age, leave a 15" - 18" or so ring clear of mulch/rocks and then mulch out to 3-4 feet.
- Rob

BestDay

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 04:48:59 PM »
Well said.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 09:48:25 PM »
In July of this year I purchased 8 mango trees from TT in Florida. Thus far my experience has been very good except for one tree, a Carrie, that died within 2 weeks of arrival. MY Lemon Zest, Glenn and NDM are putting on there second growth flush now in late October. My sweet Tart and ugly betty have doubled in canopy size over the last 60 days relative to the size I received them in summer. The Malika and CC are starting there first growth flush now but at least I am getting something before winter. All my trees are on Trupentine as far as I know but next year I will plant a Laverne Manilla in the ground and graft some other varieties onto it to compare growth. Each time I plant in the ground I create a 48"-54" squar X 24" deep hole and remove my native clay soil and replace with sandy loom topsoil I purchase and pumice. I have got excellent results doing this on my Beaumont macadamia tree and thus far my mangoes are doing very well in it. I do not believe tropical plants like heavy clay soil like I have hear in Huntington Beach and much of So. Calif.

Listed are a few photos of my 3 month old mangoes and my four year old Macadamia using this soil mix instead of the native clay soil. As you can see my mango trees have grown well in a relatively short time. Looking forward to 2016 growth when they have all year.


Ugly Betty during first flush


Sweet Tart after first flush (Got this in July 2015)


NDM and Sweet Tart in the background


Beaumont Macadamia


Ugly Betty after first flush

« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 11:41:58 AM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

Eirlis

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2015, 12:30:30 AM »
Thanks again for the advice! I'm planning to mulch after the drip lines are installed. I will try to keep the grass cut back around the lemon zest. It was quite a bit farther away in the spring before my life got crazy with a new baby. :) The brown tips on the Malika must be from lack of water as my fertilization regime has been spotty for the past 6 months!

I joined CRFG recently and am hoping to make the OC chapter meeting sometime soon and will hopefully get to know more of you then. I'd definitely be interested in a CA grown tree form JF if he has some available.

mangomaniac2

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2015, 12:47:43 AM »
Do not buy manilla rootstock, turpentine is way better.
You just need to feed your trees more and foliar spray. Setting up your drip irrigation will be a big help.


simon_grow

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2015, 02:32:10 AM »
Do not buy manilla rootstock, turpentine is way better.
You just need to feed your trees more and foliar spray. Setting up your drip irrigation will be a big help.

MangoManiac, what makes you feel that Turpentine rootstock is way better for Mango growing in California? I'm just wondering if you perhaps know some people in California with large fruiting Turpentine rootstock Mango trees that are not droopy? I've got great growth on some of my Turpentine rootstock trees but after about the third flush, the weight of the new growth starts to droop. Careful pruning seems to help.

Simon

mangomaniac2

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2015, 10:58:27 AM »
Simon,
The Manilla is too slow of grower and turpentine is much more vigorous. During all the heat waves that hit, and much of So Cal is desert like, you want the more vigorous rootstock. For me, I would rather have a more vigorous tree of certain variety than one that does nothing much of the year. Here in AZ Lowes has stopped selling those high graft manilla rootstock varieties and only sell the seedlings, because most of the varieties barely grow and are an eye sore to look at with the high graft.

bsbullie

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2015, 11:12:56 AM »
Simon,
The Manilla is too slow of grower and turpentine is much more vigorous. During all the heat waves that hit, and much of So Cal is desert like, you want the more vigorous rootstock. For me, I would rather have a more vigorous tree of certain variety than one that does nothing much of the year. Here in AZ Lowes has stopped selling those high graft manilla rootstock varieties and only sell the seedlings, because most of the varieties barely grow and are an eye sore to look at with the high graft.

MM2 - not all rootstcks perform the same in all areas.  Turpentine was chosen for use in Florida and thrives in its climate and "soil" (read sand) conditions.  That does not mean it is the rootstock of choice everywhere.  California is completely different than Florida.  It has been proven by commercial nurseries/growers and backyard growers with much experience that Turpentine is NOT the rootstock of choice in California.  Manilla has proven to serve as a better/more proficient rootstock in California.
- Rob

JF

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2015, 11:38:30 AM »
Thanks again for the advice! I'm planning to mulch after the drip lines are installed. I will try to keep the grass cut back around the lemon zest. It was quite a bit farther away in the spring before my life got crazy with a new baby. :) The brown tips on the Malika must be from lack of water as my fertilization regime has been spotty for the past 6 months!

I joined CRFG recently and am hoping to make the OC chapter meeting sometime soon and will hopefully get to know more of you then. I'd definitely be interested in a CA grown tree form JF if he has some available.

Eirlis
I'm a member of the OC chapter I'm embarrass to say I attend only a few meetings a year. I'll be more than happy to sell my cocktail mangos if I don't have a particular variety you like Behl might.

Rob
I hear the same complaint from AZ poster about their Shane O'leary's turpentine mangos no significant growth after a year, they grow spindly , major dieback you name it. MM2 has been around this forum for awhile he 's seen the dozens of comparisons maybe he just want to be controversial


« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 11:41:34 AM by JF »

mangomanic12

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2015, 12:13:50 PM »
Please note I am the  original "Mangomanic" and I do not agree with the other "Mangomaniac" about growth of the turpentine  vs Manila.
I purchased quite a few mangoes from the person JF mentioned , they are very healthy trees however they have all the issues JF mentioned. I think turpentine is a no go for our climate ( doesn't SEEM TO THRIVE - JUST STRUGGLES ALONG)
 I would like to purchase a few of JF's and Behl's trees but I am in Arizona , kinda hard to do.
I recently planted 3 manila seedlings (2 weeks ago) purchased from Lowe's . I also planted a seedling from a tree that does very well here in Arizona  ( 3 weeks ago) . Miraculously I only have 2 turpentine trees that seem ok here so far, an Okrong Tung and a Pin Saen Mun. Oh also I got a Honey Kiss seedling in the ground a month or so germinated from seed in the same spot so haven't moved or transplanted!

So i'm  going the route  of JF, Behl and Simon. Planting seedling Manila trees or vigorous acclimated seedlings then topworking late summer or so a year later.

Everyone has there opinions and beliefs but i'm going the route of JF , Behl and Simon for potentially healthy, acclimated, and successful trees !

Again Shamus has lovely healthy trees and I will continue buying from him .. but for me  mangoes is a no go on turpentine!

ClayMango

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Re: SoCal Mango Questions
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2015, 03:48:04 PM »
Purchased 11 Trees from TT... Everyone in the ground is doing great.... My Edward looks lije a nice tree for only 2 years growth...the others in ground are doing ok if you facter in them surviving Snow without protection, losing 12 inches. From frost on a seperate occasion, dogs biting tge trunk and branches, being greedy and fruiting first year Trees which stunts growth.... My Potted Trees seem to grow extremely slow when conpared to the inground Trees.
Thinking about joining a Fruitaholics anonymous support group...Fruit addiction has taken over my life!