Simulating Animal Digestion

[Ansarac]

I have read scientific literature on this subject, but you will see that my approach has been more intuitive.

Manketti (aka Mongongo) nuts are traditionally harvested from the dung of elephants, who do the work of picking the tree.

http://elephantswithoutborders.org/blog/?p=662

(I assume that Afrikaaners did it the hard way, when I saw them featured in scones.)

It has been suggested that germination is improved by bagging them with an avocado, which releases ethylene. The starchy portion of the seeds apparently goes through a ripening process, somewhat akin to the oxidation of a banana. (This is, perhaps, one reason why the water keeps turning brown, when used to germinate very-clean avocado or mango pits.)

The gas would also seem to act like a hormone, in plants, encouraging them to root.

I watched tomatoes being grown under increased pressure, and wondered whether that would make the treatment more effective.

So, I enclosed my Manketti nuts in a clean bottle, with a threaded cap, with two sliced apples, and a similar proportion of grass clippings and manure.

I also had some Argan nuts, and remembered pictures of goats eating them, in trees.



Could the same treatment work on these?

I had five Argan nuts stuck in the surface of moist clay. One had opened, and just stayed that way, for months. Under increased pressure, it expanded to 3-4 times it's normal size. Yielding to the touch but not slimy mush!

None of the Mongongo nuts rattled loosely in their shells, any more. One was even starting open at the edge of the shell. Planted about twenty today.

It has been claimed that Shea and Brazil nuts (Para) grow wherever, so are harvested in the wild. I would like to try the same technique on them, someday.

[HMHausman]

This just doesn't seem possible.  A tree with an excellent lateral growth habit is one thing, but I don't see how the goats at the top of the tree got there.

[Ansarac]

According to some scholars, who struggle to restore old words, Argan was the precious hardwood, called Coralwood, in Biblical times.

In extreme, arid conditions, it would grow slowly, leading to a very-tight grain.

Under these conditions, hardwoods were so irreplaceable, that they were regarded in the same light as a gemstone, and used to pay people. 

This tree might be ancient.

[Pancrazio]

I don't get this. Please explain. What is your objective? If you want to simulate digestion, to the purpose of growing a tree from seed, usually the methods used are physical scarification (you must make the seed coat permeable to water and oxygen) or chemical scarification (usually trough the use of H2SO4). As far as i know (but i should probably check my notes) ethylene isn't useful in seeds germination, because it is a vegetal hormone used from the plants mainly in senescence processes (hence the use for ripening the fruits).
Physical scarification can be as simple as a cut on the seed coat with a blade, or the use of sandpaper on seeds. The important part is to avoid the damage to the embryo.

[Ansarac]

What is your objective?

Physical scarification can be as simple as a cut on the seed coat with a blade, or the use of sandpaper on seeds. The important part is to avoid the damage to the embryo.

In some cases, I could actually see the embryo, which hadn't rotted. It didn't do anything. Just sat there, for months.

The idea here, is much the same as treating fire-remediated species with combustion chemicals.

But, in this case, I am mimicking partial fermentation, which would naturally occur, whether in the bowels or droppings of an herbivore.

[AlexRF]

I don't get this. Please explain. What is your objective? If you want to simulate digestion, to the purpose of growing a tree from seed, usually the methods used are physical scarification (you must make the seed coat permeable to water and oxygen) or chemical scarification (usually trough the use of H2SO4). As far as i know (but i should probably check my notes) ethylene isn't useful in seeds germination, because it is a vegetal hormone used from the plants mainly in senescence processes (hence the use for ripening the fruits).
Physical scarification can be as simple as a cut on the seed coat with a blade, or the use of sandpaper on seeds. The important part is to avoid the damage to the embryo.

In some cases physical or chemical scarification is not enough, because embryo needs some additional time (2-6 monthes) to complete its ripenining. Probably ethylene stimulate not only fruit ripening but seed (embryo) ripening too.
Unripe seeds mostly rot in the moist soil.

[Pancrazio]

AFAIK if the seed needs some post ripening time, you just leave it for the required time till it is mature. If the seed need water/active metabolism to finish its development process, you sown it as it is and wait. But usually seeds that require some time after the ripening of the fruit to be ready to germination come from places with a pronounced dry season, so they aren't damaged by dry storing (I'm assuming we are speaking of fruit of warm climate, there's plenty of seeds that need post ripening time in a wet environment if forest trees in temperate climates). Ethylene may result useful, but any seed that has seed coating strong enough to require scarification to germinate, i guess will be little influenced by ethylene.

[AlexRF]

If the seed needs some post ripening time, we not always able accurately simulate natural conditions.
As a result, seed can be overdried and lose germination or waterlogged and rot.
It is necessary to check this method on such seeds. What if pressured ethylene can significantly shorten
post ripening time?

Perhaps ethylene partly penetrates hard shell to the embryo in a pressurized bottle.
How else to explain the Argania seeds germination by Ansarac?
I have personal experience with this super-hard seeds, three plants grows well.
Such fast germinating possibly only if you slightly cracked Argan nut in the vise.
Ansarac experiense shows that his method leads to the same results. Right?

Anyway we must check this method on "pronounced dry season" seeds. Such as Annona crassiflora
or A. senegalensis. What if ethylene pressure can break seeds dormancy?   

[Ansarac]

I went from no results to fast results.

I am clear as to when I am using secondhand information, or my methods are informal.

I respect that that there are serious collectors, here, who have made considerable investments. In my case, one old batch of seeds was looking hopeless. One new batch cost $2.

This is just experimentation.

But, fwiw, documentation would be valuable, in the case of cash crops. Tinkering can literally result in a patentable process or nameable variety -- with your name on it.

So, I would like to encourage people, to be inventive, if they have the initiative. 

Also, you see that I have an interest in Brazil (Para) nut, Shea, Mongongo, and Argan. You see my purposes, and the scope of my efforts. If you would like to barter or make a small sale, I would like to network with you.

[Ansarac]

Such fast germinating possibly only if you slightly cracked Argan nut in the vise.

The fruit is quick to ferment (and should probably be left on the shell, for purposes of germination.)

The shell opens, very easily, on it's own. No effort is required.

The kernel is clean, small, plainly visible, not especially prone to decomposition, nor to growing.

The oil is listed, frequently, in soaps and cosmetics, in American stores.

Arid, blighted, and undeveloped communities, worldwide, have imported seeds, in hopes of providing jobs.

[stuartdaly88]

I just got a large amount if mongongo nuts. The shells are really thick and hard. I have read they need two weeks in an elephant to germinate well but since I don't have an elephant at home how could I simulate this?? Watered down Pool acid? GA3 or something after? Cracking the shells can sometimes damage the seed so I'm scared to risk them!!
I've planted 10 I'm soaking 20 in plain water and have quite a few left to "play with" but don't want to waste them so if anyone has any ideas please help.
The raw nut is very tasty:) reminds me of a brazil nut cross with a macadamia

.

[Grapebush]

I didn't found Argan seeds, hard to germinate! I brought 2 seeds, last year from my trip to Morocco, and by some reason, forgot of these for about 10 months +-, by last December/january, I've found them, and put them in a pot filled with rotten pine wood, and in a few weeks I get 3 seedlins, from each one. One of them died, and I gave one away, so now I have 4 seedlings.
One of the easiest seeds ever for me...

[fruitlovers]

I don't get this. Please explain. What is your objective? If you want to simulate digestion, to the purpose of growing a tree from seed, usually the methods used are physical scarification (you must make the seed coat permeable to water and oxygen) or chemical scarification (usually trough the use of H2SO4). As far as i know (but i should probably check my notes) ethylene isn't useful in seeds germination, because it is a vegetal hormone used from the plants mainly in senescence processes (hence the use for ripening the fruits).
Physical scarification can be as simple as a cut on the seed coat with a blade, or the use of sandpaper on seeds. The important part is to avoid the damage to the embryo.

Scarification is not possible with very small seeds. In any case opening up the seed coat is very different than breaking down chemicals that the seed has to prevent sprouting. This is usually done by acids, which can be similar to acids found in digestive tracts of animals.

[fruitlovers]

Seems like the acid to replicate is hydrochloric acid in very low pH, 1.5 to 2.5.
Animal digestive tract processes described: http://www.cusd4.org/vimages/shared/vnews/stories/4e679ba30e7a0/Types%20of%20Animal%20Digestive%20Systems.pdf

[fruitlovers]

Where to get cheap hydrochloric acid, also known as muriatic acid. Seems like hardware store is best option. Used for treating concrete:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090209194117AAQOJkC

[Grapebush]

Where to get cheap hydrochloric acid, also known as muriatic acid. Seems like hardware store is best option. Used for treating concrete:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090209194117AAQOJkC

Here it is easily found in stores selling painting material, as it is used by the guys that paint buildings, to remove accidental ink spots/drops in the ground.

[shafak]

This just doesn't seem possible.  A tree with an excellent lateral growth habit is one thing, but I don't see how the goats at the top of the tree got there.

! No longer available

[Finca La Isla]

Besides acids, what can be useful is a good microorganism culture like EM.  It has been shown that some Palm seeds, among others, have a higher rate of germination with a microorganism treatment.
Peter

[greenman62]

worms !

i often put some worm castings in a zip-lock baggie with a paper towel
to germinate seeds.
i had actually done a (unscientific) experiment, to see what had better germination
worm castings, fulvic and humic acids.
they all helped, but the worm castings came out on top.
the seedlings were always stronger and thicker, and looked healthier overall.
i think the beneficial organisms keep any damping off etc... in check.
they do need oxygen and you have to open the bag every couple of days.

right now i have some mango seeds germinating (also barbados cherry)
with castings , 2 worms and bit of fruit peel as a test.

i just checked on them
and the worms have actually been cleaning the mango seed.
there are no fungal problems, everything looks good.
no germination yet, but its only been a couple of days.