Author Topic: Avocado 24/7 Thread  (Read 211588 times)

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #125 on: June 24, 2013, 10:45:47 PM »
OK, the new list for potential avocado cultivars that could fill the winter S. FL avocado void are (in order of highest potential to the lowest):

1. 'Winter-Mexican' (ECHO Nursery questions the quality of this cultivar)
2. 'Fuerte'
3. 'Yamagata'
4. 'Zutano,' 'Santana,' 'Ettinger,' and 'Sharwil.'

It would really be helpful if we started to hear from those with knowledge/experience with these avocado cultivars; for example: whether the fruit ripens in the beginning-part, the middle or the end-part, of winter.

Hey sorry to hear about that Winter-Mexican arriving cooked. It kind'a breaks my heart, specially when you think it has such a good potential to fill the S.FL avocado void. Sounds like there's some major problem with the 'Shipping & Handling' at Top-Tropicals (Darn it).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 12:57:50 AM by LEOOEL »
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johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #126 on: June 25, 2013, 08:33:49 AM »
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.

They will replace it, right?
John

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #127 on: June 25, 2013, 08:47:54 AM »
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.

They will replace it, right?

No they won't.  I ordered a Nishikawa which arrived with a butchered rootball.  Needless to say it died.  I fought with customer service until I gave up.

If you want quality stock which arrives in beautiful condition you can't beat Pine Island nursery or Clifton's, the latter being a bit pricey. http://www.buyplantsonline.com/avocadotrees.html#top

johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #128 on: June 25, 2013, 11:37:50 AM »
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.

They will replace it, right?

No they won't.  I ordered a Nishikawa which arrived with a butchered rootball.  Needless to say it died.  I fought with customer service until I gave up.

If you want quality stock which arrives in beautiful condition you can't beat Pine Island nursery or Clifton's, the latter being a bit pricey. http://www.buyplantsonline.com/avocadotrees.html#top

$50 for a tree, and they don't guarantee it will arrive in good condition?  What a way to run a nursery business!
John

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #129 on: June 25, 2013, 12:54:31 PM »
I will give Top Tropicals the opportunity to do the right thing. I have contacted them and send them pictures.   In the mean time if anyone has Winter Mexican please let me know I need bud wood to top work a tree.
Carlos
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LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #130 on: June 30, 2013, 07:00:55 PM »
Carlos, I'm still upset about the Winter Mexican avocado tree that arrived 'baked' from Top Tropicals.

If you can come to an agreement with Top Tropicals to obtain another tree, I'd like to volunteer, go pick it up myself and bring it back to you at no charge.
I'm very familiar with the area (Fort Myers, FL) due to family ties I have there.

If I can be of any assistance in this, please let me know.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #131 on: July 02, 2013, 02:28:02 AM »
Updated list of potential quality avocado cultivars that could fill the S. FL. avocado winter void of March-June (inferior cultivars of previous list have been removed):

Fuerte
Pear shaped fruit with a characteristic neck, though it can vary from elongated with a long narrow neck to round with a wide and short neck. Its skin is thin, green, moderately bright, flexible texture with a somewhat grainy surface. Medium size to large (170-500 grams). Medium to large seed with 75-77% flesh available. Excellent quality flesh, tasty and nutty flavor
In California this variety ripens from March-April

Yamagata
According to Top Tropicals Nursery in Florida, U.S.A.
Very early March-July
Production: No information available for Florida
Tree: vigorous and upright, dark green foliage
Fruit: large, oval-pyriform with a curved neck
Color: Green
Cold Tolerance: Medium to low
Yamagata variety is very early. It ripens in Florida in March-April when no other varieties produce fruit. Can ripen over a long season, from March through July. Fruit is large, with a small seed and green skin. Flesh green, smooth, flavor nutty. It's a very fine, gourmet Hawaiian avocado named for agriculture specialist Heiji Yamagata, who develeoped it. According to University of Hawaii consumer poll, Yamagata was selected as one of the best Hawaiian cultivars. Medium to low cold hardiness. Very vigorous and upright growing tree.
Type: W
Place of Origin: Hawaii

Sharwil
Sharwil avocados are usually smaller sized and much more pear-shaped as compared to various other types. This particular type weighs about in between 200 – 370 g and it has a small seed. Because of its especially rich, nutty flavor, the Sharwil is usually promoted like a gourmet avocado. This particular variety comes into season from late April to August, across the east coast of Australia.

'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

Ryan

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #132 on: July 02, 2013, 03:39:20 AM »
Some thoughts from an individual who eats a lot of sharwil and yamagata avocados. If you can have only one, my vote would be sharwil (for flavor, texture/consistency). I grow both, along with many other varieties, in an effort to have fruit year round. For now I still purchase a lot, while I wait for my trees to come to full maturity. I think they're both good & worth growing, yet would easily choose sharwil as the winner.

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #133 on: July 02, 2013, 04:29:52 AM »
Some thoughts from an individual who eats a lot of sharwil and yamagata avocados. If you can have only one, my vote would be sharwil (for flavor, texture/consistency). I grow both, along with many other varieties, in an effort to have fruit year round. For now I still purchase a lot, while I wait for my trees to come to full maturity. I think they're both good & worth growing, yet would easily choose sharwil as the winner.

Yamagata rated quite higher than Sharwill in public opinion poll, in fact Yamagata came out as #1.
In Honolulu, 13 chefs participated in the survey. Generally, as did the Kona chefs, the O‘ahu chefs indicated
a preference for ‘Linda’, ‘Kahaluu’, and ‘Malama’ over
imported ‘Hass’ (Table 2), with ‘Sharwil’ ranked with
‘Hass’. In terms of peeling characteristics, however,
‘Sharwil’ scored high with these chefs.
The results of the consumer test are reported in Table
3. The additional cultivar ‘Yamagata’ gathered wide
approval among consumers, gaining the highest scores
for most of the characteristics surveyed. ‘Sharwil’ and
‘Kahaluu’ were generally ranked low. ‘Linda’, ‘Malama’,
and ‘Hass’ were generally graded equivalently.

Read the whole report here:http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf

Oscar

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #134 on: July 02, 2013, 08:02:28 AM »
Some of these so called test only show the preference of a few people. Avocado taste is all a matter of personal preferences. Just to give you an example. There is a little known WI avocado called Arue. One web site that  trashes the fruit. It says basically it is horrible with lots of fiber etc......
I own it and find it acceptable, I detect ZERO fiber, and yes the taste is bland but for guacamole you can make it work. This is the first fruit that matures in the year, I ate some this year as early as April.
Is all very subjective.
Carlos
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Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #135 on: July 02, 2013, 08:51:46 AM »
Some thoughts from an individual who eats a lot of sharwil and yamagata avocados. If you can have only one, my vote would be sharwil (for flavor, texture/consistency). I grow both, along with many other varieties, in an effort to have fruit year round. For now I still purchase a lot, while I wait for my trees to come to full maturity. I think they're both good & worth growing, yet would easily choose sharwil as the winner.

I have a Sharwil I grafted onto a Florida pit.  It is very vigorous.  I am surprised by the huge leaves on a 3' X 3' tree.  Some of them are up to  13.5" long by 4" wide! Is this normal?  Also, have heard the tree is rather small if left unpruned.  True?

Can't believe you guys aren't shipping Sharwil to the mainland!  I'd give my left n*t to try one in anticipation of getting fruit next year.

Reading off a cado characteristic's list done by the U. of Riverside (I believe) Sharwill is a 'B' type, rated 'XLNT' in flavor, 8-16 oz., green, ovoid, medium skin, fruits Feb-Nov., Tree size - small, holds well on tree, small seed, peels easily.

Mark   
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 08:59:03 AM by Mark in Texas »

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2013, 09:36:16 PM »
Ryan, for someone who eats a lot of Sharwil and Yamagata avocados, your comments do carry weight. According to you, the Sharwil is superior to the Yamagata, thank you so much for your first hand, valuable input.

Oscar, I was amazed, in the last list, after the inferior quality avocados were removed, we were left with three cultivars, one each from Australia, Hawaii and California.
I swear I noticed this after I posted the list. I was like, oh my, this is a three way race between Austrlia, Hawaii and California, as to which location of origin of these cultivars, will fill the S.-FL-Winter-Avocado-Void. Nevertheless, I have to admit that although I do find this interesting, it was in no way intentional; I'm very fond of all three (capitalist...  :) )  places.

Oscar, regarding the Yamagata, I must say that from what I've gathered, I've become very fond of this cultivar. But, I have to be honest and say that I worry about its thin skin (not so much about its peeling inadequacy), in that it may be counterproductive as far as producing a quality avo. fruit in the winter. But, I admit that I'm just speculating, we will not know if Yamagata will fill the S-F-W-A-V until someone grows it to fruition here in S. Florida. Thank you Oscar for your valuable input.

Mark, if it's true what the U. of Riverside says, that you could have Sharwil avocado from February-November, then you are a very lucky man, I wish you the best of luck.
And Mark, be careful what you wish for...  ;D But seriously, thank you very much for that uplifting information. It seems that the Sharwil stays alive as a very possible candidate for the S-F-W-A-V. Again, thank you so much and please keet it coming.

Carlos, I was blown away with what you said, that the earliest ripe fruit of the year, in S. FL, is that from the Arue avocado cultivar. You said you ate some this year, as early as April. So, if someone in S. FL had, say, Monroe, Lula and Arue, that would take care of the winter months of January, February and April. These cultivars are of acceptable quality, they are not horrific, or as I like to say 'hellish.' If Arue is a reliable producer, then I guess one could say that the S-F-W-A-V is definitely getting filled; with just a few holes here and there. Now, if one or more of the avocados in the previous list (Fuerte, Yamagata, Sharwil) also filled a portion of the 'SFWAV,'  then anyone in S. FL, even those with small yards could say: I want one or two avocado-christmas-trees with these 3-6 cultivars on them, and then have avocado year round.
It reminds me of what you've said, "Once we fill the 'SFWAV' we'll keep on going and look for a few more." This is very good, impressive news, thank you, you're the master.

Carlos, I'm impressed and humbled that we're getting assistance from far away friends in (Hawaii, California, Texas...) helping us fill the S-F-W-A-V. Thank you very much guys, it's greatly appreciated. We're all crazy about avocados and I like that a lot, and also being a part of this, along with everyone else.

Thank you all for all the input. We're really getting somewhere here, and it's really appreciated, please keep it coming.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 09:49:50 PM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

zands

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2013, 09:48:33 PM »
Just saying to CT and LEEOLEL -------  Got a 3 gallon Pine Island Hass (must be California Hass?) at my nearby Home Depot. I am going to give it the best nutrition to make it overcome scabbing etc. Got a great beautiful upward extended 7 gallon lula avocado from cookie monster.

Now I have the avocados I want. Lula for fall-winter and Hass getting ripe about August-September

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2013, 10:02:53 PM »
Zands, you have a lot of the bases covered, congratulations.

I have the Hass, it's very productive with no disease problems, so far. And, I'm planning to get the Lula. What I like about the Lula is that I consider it to be a quality avocado. When the winter comes, it protects the quality of the flesh inside. And, this year, I was able to pick the last Lula off a tree on March 12! (if I remember correctly). It's like this cultivar is saying: Give me all the winter cold that you've got and yes, I may get scab on the outside of the skin, but I'm gonna protect the quality of the flesh inside, so you can enjoy eating the inside flesh of the fruit. I know this sounds like I'm hearing voices of Lula talking to me, but it's one way of looking at it.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

zands

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2013, 10:18:17 PM »
LEOOEL----

Carlos has an orchard so is selling to the masses who blindly will demand (and will only pay for in our free market system) the un-blemished and un-scabbed

For the home grower who supplies intelligent nutrition to his trees it will work out just fine. Lula goes on and on and I have seen and eaten lula from neighboring trees in January and early February in Broward County Florida
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 10:21:13 PM by zands »

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2013, 11:36:24 PM »
Zands, that's interesting, since you're further north in Broward County, FL, USA, the Lula avocados seem to stay on the tree until the beginning of February.

Here in Miami-Dade County, FL, USA, since we're further south and a bit closer to the equator/tropics, the Lula avocados seem to stay on the tree until late February.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #141 on: July 03, 2013, 06:50:20 AM »
Some of these so called test only show the preference of a few people. Avocado taste is all a matter of personal preferences. Just to give you an example. There is a little known WI avocado called Arue. One web site that  trashes the fruit. It says basically it is horrible with lots of fiber etc......
I own it and find it acceptable, I detect ZERO fiber, and yes the taste is bland but for guacamole you can make it work. This is the first fruit that matures in the year, I ate some this year as early as April.
Is all very subjective.

Yes ofcourse taste tests are subjective. I think that's true by definition. If you look at results in this test from chefs, for example, it's very different what public decided: chefs thought Kahaluu to be the best and public rated it much lower. But because taste tests are subjective it doesn't mean they are not valuable. Big companies in fact rely on them to test their products before manufacturing and marketing. Also if a very large group of people find an avocado to be of superior taste you can bet your $$$ that cultivar will sell very well and be widely accepted.
About Sharwil vs. Yamagata, for a commercial variety Sharwil is quite good quality. But when compared with other cultivars that may not be as productive or have as good a shelf life, or skin is thinner, then it is not the best tasting of avocados. Commercially selected cultivars are often not of highest taste caliber because the mass marketer is looking at a lot of other criteria besides taste. In fact taste is usually not considered the most important criteria to them, otherwise we wouldn't have such terrible tasting produce on the market shelves.
Mark, it's not true that Sharwil is a small tree if left unpruned. The one i have is just as large as any of the other cultivars planted next to it.
Oscar

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #142 on: July 03, 2013, 08:37:02 AM »
Mark, if it's true what the U. of Riverside says, that you could have Sharwil avocado from February-November, then you are a very lucky man, I wish you the best of luck.

And Mark, be careful what you wish for...  ;D But seriously, thank you very much for that uplifting information. It seems that the Sharwil stays alive as a very possible candidate for the S-F-W-A-V. Again, thank you so much and please keet it coming.

Thanks.  Don't know if you've seen this video on Sharwil but it's worth mentioning.  Also, I did some checking on what kind of climes Sharwil will tolerate and it seems pretty broad.  For instance, it grows/crops well in the hotter areas of Australia.
 The Appetizing Avocado

Wow, now this is interesting!  New rules would ease restrictions on Sharwil avocados export
http://westhawaiitoday.com/sections/news/local-features/new-rules-would-ease-restrictions-sharwil-avocados-export.html

Good luck with your quest.

Down here in Texas we'd say "Carlos es El Jefe"!  (The chief, ya'll)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #143 on: July 03, 2013, 08:49:32 AM »
About Sharwil vs. Yamagata, for a commercial variety Sharwil is quite good quality. But when compared with other cultivars that may not be as productive or have as good a shelf life, or skin is thinner, then it is not the best tasting of avocados.

To piggyback on that comment if you can get a avocado tree that is productive and bears fruit that markets well (turns black), stores and ships well (because of certain factors including skin thickness - leather), and tastes fairly good then you have a winner - Hass.  What makes me mad is how brainwashed the public is when it comes to thinking that Hass is superior to other varieties, reason why you only see Hass in supermarkets and find super conglomerates that try to monopolize the market - CALAVO comes to mine.   I buy a mailorder box from time to time from Morro Bay growers and they are excellent.  Why?  Because they are tree ripened.  I'm in the heart of commercial peach growers and the orchards sell tree ripened peaches.  If you've ever had one that stays on the tree longer than a typical market peach it's almost as good as a good mango.

Sharwil doesn't stay small?   :o  Looks like I've got my work cut out for me.  PGR's and hand pruners, yah sah!   If I can keep my trees under 12' tall, I'm OK.

Quote
Commercially selected cultivars are often not of highest taste caliber because the mass marketer is looking at a lot of other criteria besides taste. In fact taste is usually not considered the most important criteria to them, otherwise we wouldn't have such terrible tasting produce on the market shelves.

Bingo....

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #144 on: July 03, 2013, 12:49:14 PM »
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.
Carlos
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JF

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #145 on: July 03, 2013, 01:19:10 PM »
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.

I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.

zands

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #146 on: July 03, 2013, 03:25:41 PM »
Zands, you have a lot of the bases covered, congratulations.

I have the Hass, it's very productive with no disease problems, so far. And, I'm planning to get the Lula. What I like about the Lula is that I consider it to be a quality avocado. When the winter comes, it protects the quality of the flesh inside. And, this year, I was able to pick the last Lula off a tree on March 12! (if I remember correctly). It's like this cultivar is saying: Give me all the winter cold that you've got and yes, I may get scab on the outside of the skin, but I'm gonna protect the quality of the flesh inside, so you can enjoy eating the inside flesh of the fruit. I know this sounds like I'm hearing voices of Lula talking to me, but it's one way of looking at it.

You have a Hass, not the Hass  8) because >>>>
What Hass do you have? California Hass or the Florida Hass?  I have eaten lots of lula avocados from neighbors tree and liked them all plus I like the smaller size of the fruit.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 03:27:39 PM by zands »

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #147 on: July 03, 2013, 03:41:57 PM »
Talking about (ca) Hass, I just saw in Home Depot at Kendall Drive and 127 Ave in Miami some nice Hass specimens, Pine Island Trees with their usual high quality Pine Island has to offer.
They most be in other stores in the area.  I have not been able to see a Hass tree holding fruit in So. Dede. I know they are out there.
Carlos
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zands

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #148 on: July 03, 2013, 06:57:23 PM »
Talking about (ca) Hass, I just saw in Home Depot at Kendall Drive and 127 Ave in Miami some nice Hass specimens, Pine Island Trees with their usual high quality Pine Island has to offer.
They most be in other stores in the area.  I have not been able to see a Hass tree holding fruit in So. Dede. I know they are out there.

I saw them at Boca Raton HD on Glades Rd and the HD in Coral Springs at Atlantic Ave.
Hass has good name recognition, and Pine Island sure is pumping them out.

That Boca HD is very large and a larger nursery area than most HDs

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #149 on: July 03, 2013, 10:10:16 PM »
Just saying to CT and LEEOLEL -------  Got a 3 gallon Pine Island Hass (must be California Hass?) at my nearby Home Depot. I am going to give it the best nutrition to make it overcome scabbing etc. Got a great beautiful upward extended 7 gallon lula avocado from cookie monster.


Zands. My understanding of scab is a fungus that is air born floats in the air. Not much can be done by way of nutrition. I have said before not sure where in this forum, that scab may be more prevalent in places with a lot of avocado trees.   Humidity has a lot to do with it. A little copper, specially the new solutions would come in handy. I would not say to someone don't plant a Lula or Monroe because of scab, Just if your area is susceptible you need to do something, to my knowledge nutrition alone will not do it. My trees are well feed and I have gotten attacked in the last two years.  Is not just a cosmetic issue, fruit with scab will begin dropping . One row of Monroe was not spayed early this year and I have hundreds of egg size fruit on the ground caused by the scab.

Well considering what is happening with Laurel Wilt, scab is a non-event
Carlos
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