Author Topic: Nomenclature nuttiness  (Read 1879 times)

Recher

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Nomenclature nuttiness
« on: October 16, 2012, 07:46:18 PM »
Due to DNA testing there has been a recent lumping: Planchonella into Pouteria, Michelia into Magnolia, Rheeedia into Garcinia. This has been discussed and as i have stated (or have I?) taxonomy is a human invention. Its purpose is to identify plants. The fact that DNA shows no or minimal genetic difference is not or should not be the be all and end all. Why shouldn't after DNA we look at morphological differences? For example Magnolia has terminal flowers while Michelia has lateral.

I have been prompted to open this topic because of something that 'appauls' me. I was almost became a mycologist with a horticultural hobby. I recently found some Macrolepiota rhacodes (syn. Lepiota rhacodes) only to discover due to DNA it has now  been lumped with Chlorphytum molybites.

Now I am convinced this new thrust to lump by DNA only is a nonsense.

Chlrorphtyum molybites is the ONLY genus and species with GREEN spores. Macrolepiota rhacodes has white spores like all other Macrolepiota and Lepiota species.

Spore coplur is the first port of call in identifying gilled fungi.
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luc

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Re: Nomenclature nuttiness
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 09:07:03 PM »
If this were face book , I would put you a ' Like ' Paul , unfortunately I cannot comment on your posting , I am not qualified ....but I do agree with you on Michelia / Magnolia .
Luc Vleeracker
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Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Nomenclature nuttiness
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 09:13:05 PM »
Luc, i wonder who must I petition to, in order to name your garcinia ??

G. vleerackerii
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Mike T

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Re: Nomenclature nuttiness
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 09:23:55 PM »
While all taxonomy is an artificial construct there is some basis in nature for seperating types into species and groups that cannot produce fertile offspring.DNA work shows relatedness whereas the old fashioned ways just show recognizable flags and feature that may not correspond to relatedness.It depends on the speed of evolution especially of characters.Once familiar with the common processes and expressions like  punctuated equilibria and phenotypic plasticity it makes more sense.The world of taxonomy has changed and you just can't eyeball organisms any more to know where they fit in.You can't look at the child with the big nose and assume they belong in the family with big noses if the DNA tells you differently.We can't put the genie back in the bottle now.

Recher

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Re: Nomenclature nuttiness
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 09:06:12 AM »
While all taxonomy is an artificial construct there is some basis in nature for seperating types into species and groups that cannot produce fertile offspring.DNA work shows relatedness whereas the old fashioned ways just show recognizable flags and feature that may not correspond to relatedness.It depends on the speed of evolution especially of characters.Once familiar with the common processes and expressions like  punctuated equilibria and phenotypic plasticity it makes more sense.The world of taxonomy has changed and you just can't eyeball organisms any more to know where they fit in.You can't look at the child with the big nose and assume they belong in the family with big noses if the DNA tells you differently.We can't put the genie back in the bottle now.

I totally agree DNA comes first but not at the exclusion of follow up obvious to the naked eye morphological differences. As you state it is an artificial construct.

Green or white spored fungi is a HUGE difference.

I love DNA mapping and what it is telling us about the relationships of all organisms.
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Guanabanus

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Re: Nomenclature nuttiness
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 11:27:14 PM »
Most of the DNA stuff will have to be re-done, now that technology exists to check tens of thousands of markers, instead of a few dozen, as has been the case.
Har