Author Topic: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous  (Read 387238 times)

gnappi

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #900 on: June 06, 2015, 10:35:33 PM »
I've tested my soil (silver/brown sandy soil) at 7.1 to 7.3 making it mildly alkaline.

I'm thinking of throwing my mango and banana peels and coffee grinds around my Jaboticaba to either bring it closer to neutral or the acid side and add a bit of (in the case of banana peel more K) NPK. Is anyone using kitchen scraps to help condition their Jabo soil?
Regards,

   Gary

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #901 on: June 07, 2015, 07:11:15 PM »
I've tested my soil (silver/brown sandy soil) at 7.1 to 7.3 making it mildly alkaline.

I'm thinking of throwing my mango and banana peels and coffee grinds around my Jaboticaba to either bring it closer to neutral or the acid side and add a bit of (in the case of banana peel more K) NPK. Is anyone using kitchen scraps to help condition their Jabo soil?
all the time bro, I'm pretty sure u can get away with just using kitchen scraps, never using store bought fertilizer.
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harveyc

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #902 on: June 07, 2015, 07:20:32 PM »
Is there something about jaboticaba fruit (skins?) that cause irrigation to the tongue of someone consuming the fruit?  I ate quite a bit of fruit a couple of days ago and later that night I realized my tongue was burning as if it had been irrigated by latex.  It could have been causes by something else, though the only thing I can think of is one fig I also ate that that day.

xyzm

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #903 on: June 07, 2015, 07:49:24 PM »
Alll I want is that jaboticabin.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #904 on: June 08, 2015, 12:51:54 AM »
Is there something about jaboticaba fruit (skins?) that cause irrigation to the tongue of someone consuming the fruit?  I ate quite a bit of fruit a couple of days ago and later that night I realized my tongue was burning as if it had been irrigated by latex.  It could have been causes by something else, though the only thing I can think of is one fig I also ate that that day.

I'm sure anything is possible...but I doubt it was the jaboticaba skins....I have never heard of them doing this...but depending on the variety, eating them in excess (it really doesn't take much for certain species), can give you an upset stomach for sure.

I'm guessing it could have been the fig!  based on your description of being irritated by latex.
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #905 on: June 08, 2015, 12:53:28 AM »
Alll I want is that jaboticabin.

I'm like the Keith Richards of Myrciaria, yes there is a little blood in my jaboticabin stream!  ;D
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ScottR

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #906 on: June 08, 2015, 10:41:50 AM »
HAHAHAHA :)

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #907 on: June 08, 2015, 12:34:34 PM »
Unfortunately I have never tried it. Any one in South Florida want to send me some? Ill cover shipping and some extra. Specifically located in Lee county.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #908 on: June 08, 2015, 03:59:59 PM »
I'd guess those trees are 25-35 years old. I have a tree that is over 25 years old. I've seen jaboticaba trees here over 50 years old, so more than twice the size. of those in the photos In Brazil i've seen trees over 100 years old. I've posted a photo of one before. They get massive! There might be 100 year old trees here also, i've never seen them though.

Oscar, look this and try don´t salivate to much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNuTdJD3-EU
It´s the biggest jaboticabal in the world, located in the Hidrolândia city. They have more than 38.000 trees of jaboticaba...

fisherking73

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #909 on: June 08, 2015, 05:51:09 PM »
 :o :o :o :o :o

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #910 on: June 08, 2015, 05:53:46 PM »
Cassio, I speak Spanish so can pick up words here and there in Portuguese but not enough to put it together lol  What was he saying at the end about that white little worm, something about a poison injected with a syringe?

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #911 on: June 08, 2015, 06:28:23 PM »
I'd guess those trees are 25-35 years old. I have a tree that is over 25 years old. I've seen jaboticaba trees here over 50 years old, so more than twice the size. of those in the photos In Brazil i've seen trees over 100 years old. I've posted a photo of one before. They get massive! There might be 100 year old trees here also, i've never seen them though.

Oscar, look this and try don´t salivate to much:
It´s the biggest jaboticabal in the world, located in the Hidrolândia city. They have more than 38.000 trees of jaboticaba...

Thanks, nice orchard!
Oscar

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #912 on: June 08, 2015, 06:52:37 PM »
Unfortunately I have never tried it. Any one in South Florida want to send me some? Ill cover shipping and some extra. Specifically located in Lee county.

u r in ft myers? doesn't fruitscapes have a fruiting tree?
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xyzm

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #913 on: June 08, 2015, 08:44:36 PM »
Unfortunately I have never tried it. Any one in South Florida want to send me some? Ill cover shipping and some extra. Specifically located in Lee county.

u r in ft myers? doesn't fruitscapes have a fruiting tree?

Yes and I have never heard of them, will have to look it up.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #914 on: June 09, 2015, 09:26:42 AM »
... The seller said me the plant is 04 years old and its the last one left.  :-\ I asked about the scientific name and photos of older plants with fruits. Lets wait and see what comes.

Talking about what is supposed to be a jaboticaba vine, here it goes a photo of the mother-tree, sent me by the seller:



He told me the tree had to be tied because the branches hang down as they grow, and can touch the soil. The main trunk is straight, have small diameter and little branching. The seller also told me that he removes branches that arise further down the trunk. It bears sweet fruit in the trunk and also at the end of twigs.
Well, mystery solved. In fact, it isn´t a vine or liana, although it may be an uncommon variety.

Photo of the leafs

« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 09:43:34 AM by Cassio »

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #915 on: June 09, 2015, 10:00:52 AM »
Cassio, I speak Spanish so can pick up words here and there in Portuguese but not enough to put it together lol  What was he saying at the end about that white little worm, something about a poison injected with a syringe?

That wasn't a worm.  It was heartwood dust pushed out by an invading ambrosia beetle.  Syringe treatment I found was the only cure--similar to preventing borers from decimating melon plants.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #916 on: June 09, 2015, 10:32:39 AM »
Cassio,
it was too good to be true...

there is no vining jaboticaba...

good detective work.
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Viking Guy

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #917 on: June 09, 2015, 10:59:33 AM »
Cassio,
it was too good to be true...

there is no vining jaboticaba...

good detective work.

I suppose it possible with training an pruning to grow one into a vining shape.  Would at least look cool.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #918 on: June 09, 2015, 12:55:47 PM »
Cassio,
it was too good to be true...
there is no vining jaboticaba...
good detective work.

Yeah, but these two species that, in truth, aren´t a jabuticaba, are known as jabuticaba-de-cipó: :D A mature Chondodrendron can be sold by something around R$ 1500,00 (USD 500,00) !!
http://www.arvores.brasil.nom.br/lianas/jabuticacipo/
http://www.outvue.com/q/Chondodendron%20platyphyllum

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #919 on: June 09, 2015, 10:56:07 PM »
have tried growing a few of these jaboticaba like species from the Cerrado(or areas like the cerrado)...I was excited at first...

but i always kill them!! (pH too high to keep them happy, or I always over water during the winter)

I give up!

Cassio,
it was too good to be true...
there is no vining jaboticaba...
good detective work.

Yeah, but these two species that, in truth, aren´t a jabuticaba, are known as jabuticaba-de-cipó: :D A mature Chondodrendron can be sold by something around R$ 1500,00 (USD 500,00) !!
http://www.arvores.brasil.nom.br/lianas/jabuticacipo/
http://www.outvue.com/q/Chondodendron%20platyphyllum
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #920 on: June 10, 2015, 12:57:07 AM »
Has anyone bothered to try selective breeding on the different Jabos? I’m not talking about merely “This tree tastes a little better! I’d better propagate it”. I’m talking about intense, directed selection, with a goal in mind; be it by hybridizing, or with pure species lines. I know there are selected cultivars available in some places, but I wonder if even they can be improved upon.

I have a few ideas in mind, but I’m hardly in a position to test them out right now.

Breeding for thin tannin-free skin seems most attractive for consumption, but I bet they’d also be more susceptible to pests. On the other hand, thick tannic skins might require you to bite through and discard the skin, but it’d be safer from pests, and more desirable for productivity in that regard.

If adherence of pulp to skin is an issue, breeding for slip-skin might be desirable.

A freestone cultivar would probably be great for processing, and if combined with thin tannin-free skin (or thick, tannic, slip-skin), it’d probably be ideal for that purpose.

The larger-fruited species make me wonder if they can be bred into some sort of stone-fruit analogue.

Then there’s breeding for smaller seed size and better pulp-to-seed ratio. Precociousness is a sought-after trait (and ideal for selective breeding, which would take time). And then the traditional breeding goals of superior flavor, better productivity, disease resistance, vigor, and versatility of soil tolerance.


I’ve already seen a few species that display some of these traits, but I’ve yet to see a species that incorporates all of them (at least the non-conflicting traits).

M. aureana and M. cuspidata seem to both have thin, tannin-free skin, and M. trunciflora is low-tannin at least.

Grimal has thick, tannic skin and small seeds (does it have good pulp-to-seed ratio?); apparently, it, together with Trunciflora, seems to have the best flavor. I wouldn’t know if pulp adherence to skin is an issue (I’ve no direct experience with them yet), so I also don’t know which ones (if any) possess the slip-skin trait.

Cuspidata is freestone, but it’s small in size, and large-seeded.

M. coronata, M. cauliflora and P. edulis have the largest fruit, but they’re slow growing (at least P. edulis is), so not very good candidates for selective breeding (unless you could find or breed a precocious morph). Could one of the other species be bred for larger fruit size?

Cuspidata, the Red Hybrid, and the Vermelha Hybrid seem to be the most precocious. Vermelha is more precocious, but seems sensitive to the wrong soil conditions.

The Red Hybrid seems the best candidate for selection. It’s already fast, productive (almost everbearing), vigorous, and resistant to adverse conditions. Now the question is, what would it take to breed these traits into it, in the best possible combination? Simple selection, or maybe by involving more crossbreeding?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 12:59:46 AM by Caesar »

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #921 on: June 10, 2015, 01:14:44 AM »
People have already purposefully created hybrids, and they occur naturally more than you might think.

I actually have several trees that I believe are new hybrids (I'm in the process of trying to confirm my suspicion)

Honestly I haven't had time make a worthwhile attempt at creating a new hybrid intentionally...but if you have several species flowering in one place at the same time, eventually you will get a hybrid (but not all species are capable of hybridization ...for instance, you can't cross yellow jabo with cambuca, or sabara with cambuca or yellow...but u could theoretically hybridize guaquiea with strigipes or glazioviana or glomerata ...)

But now we are treading into dangerous territory, where an intense debate can arise...about the genetic modification of myrciarias and plinias.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #922 on: June 10, 2015, 02:12:51 AM »
People have already purposefully created hybrids, and they occur naturally more than you might think.

I actually have several trees that I believe are new hybrids (I'm in the process of trying to confirm my suspicion)

Honestly I haven't had time make a worthwhile attempt at creating a new hybrid intentionally...but if you have several species flowering in one place at the same time, eventually you will get a hybrid (but not all species are capable of hybridization ...for instance, you can't cross yellow jabo with cambuca, or sabara with cambuca or yellow...but u could theoretically hybridize guaquiea with strigipes or glazioviana or glomerata ...)

But now we are treading into dangerous territory, where an intense debate can arise...about the genetic modification of myrciarias and plinias.

Selective breeding is totally different than genetic modification. No debate about selective breeding. That has been done by humans for thousands of years.
Oscar

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #923 on: June 10, 2015, 08:43:00 AM »
Oscar

Of course I know this  ::)

But based on the species and characteristics noted by Caesar, the only way to combine them or harness the charactersitics, would be in a lab...

For instance, cuspidata x grimal

If you are actually considering breeding, you must consider which plants are capable of being hybridized...without genetic modification.



People have already purposefully created hybrids, and they occur naturally more than you might think.

I actually have several trees that I believe are new hybrids (I'm in the process of trying to confirm my suspicion)

Honestly I haven't had time make a worthwhile attempt at creating a new hybrid intentionally...but if you have several species flowering in one place at the same time, eventually you will get a hybrid (but not all species are capable of hybridization ...for instance, you can't cross yellow jabo with cambuca, or sabara with cambuca or yellow...but u could theoretically hybridize guaquiea with strigipes or glazioviana or glomerata ...)

But now we are treading into dangerous territory, where an intense debate can arise...about the genetic modification of myrciarias and plinias.

Selective breeding is totally different than genetic modification. No debate about selective breeding. That has been done by humans for thousands of years.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 08:46:29 AM by FlyingFoxFruits »
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #924 on: June 10, 2015, 09:57:24 AM »
This thread just went above my pay grade ???