Author Topic: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous  (Read 387477 times)

gunnar429

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1125 on: December 27, 2015, 09:30:56 PM »
Adan
Answer me a question:
Helton ranks jabuticabas as plinias, the difference between Plinia and Myrciaria?

Thank you

I don't think there is much of a difference...and I don't know why some people refuse to use the name Myrciaria....and why some are classified as Plinia (even by those who categorize some as Myrciaria).

but I personally think some of the Myrciarias (like glazioviana, guaquiea, strigipes, and glomerata) should have their own genus.  They are much different than Sabara and it's close relatives (M. cauliflora, coronata, trunciflora, oblongata, etc)

also, Plinia edulis, Plinia rivularis, Mulchi (Plinia sp.), and Myrciaria vexator seem to belong to a separate group....

all i can say is...it's really confusing!  and probably will require genetic profiling to have a definitive answer...

Eugenia, Plinia, and Myrciaria are all closely related...and difficult for a layman to distinguish taxonomically.

Cambuca in the same group as that foul vexator?  Oh, no...now you have me worried since I haven't tasted cambuca....to me, blue jabo is right up there with june plum and the worst surinam cherries  :o
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1126 on: December 27, 2015, 09:47:45 PM »
Gotta know how to properly eat the vexator, otherwise the tannin in the skin is nasty...also if your tree is not grown under optimal conditions, the fruit may be smaller than normal (I see this all the time)...but I really enjoy these...they seem to fruit almost half the year which is nice...

But it's nothing like the cambuca at all in terms of flavor.
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gunnar429

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1127 on: December 27, 2015, 11:26:24 PM »
Gotta know how to properly eat the vexator, otherwise the tannin in the skin is nasty...also if your tree is not grown under optimal conditions, the fruit may be smaller than normal (I see this all the time)...but I really enjoy these...they seem to fruit almost half the year which is nice...

But it's nothing like the cambuca at all in terms of flavor.


 ;D Phew!  Good to hear.  Maybe when I come visit you in March, you can try to convert me on blue grape
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1128 on: December 27, 2015, 11:47:11 PM »
the blue jaboticaba is one of those fruits that is easy not to like...especially if you have a poor first impression...and some people are going to dislike them no matter what,, usually the complaints are the thick tannic skin, and the large seeds.

But it seems like a good percentage of people who taste them at my nursery appreciate them...I always warn them not to chew the skin , and try to pick the largest ripest fruits .

If u get them too early they are astringent and sour....even though they look ripe

Defintely one of those fruits that takes some patience to appreciate...but as I've said before, the flavor is really nice (and unique), the tree is precocious, fruiting from seed in less than 6yr, and it has an extended season with several crops throughout the year...(and the thick skin deters birds from stealing the fruit!). And it tolerates high pH (and city water) very well!

 
Gotta know how to properly eat the vexator, otherwise the tannin in the skin is nasty...also if your tree is not grown under optimal conditions, the fruit may be smaller than normal (I see this all the time)...but I really enjoy these...they seem to fruit almost half the year which is nice...

But it's nothing like the cambuca at all in terms of flavor.


 ;D Phew!  Good to hear.  Maybe when I come visit you in March, you can try to convert me on blue grape
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Mike T

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1129 on: December 28, 2015, 02:56:47 AM »
From talking to people in the know especially in Brazil and from my limited experience the excellent tasting species are grimals and close relatives, Scarlets and phitrantha. Cambuca seems to be excellent or vry good and all 3 mulchis are just good but rivularis is very good.M.jaboticaba such as sabara and the M.cauliflower such as Paulista are very good as is red hybrid and white.Coronata and oblongata are too sour and yellows are just trash in my view.Vexators are ok,dubia are very sour and the other 8 or 9 main ones the jury is out on.Taste,sourness and thick skin are problems with a few.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1130 on: December 28, 2015, 06:27:28 AM »
I left out trunciflora which is reputedly very good,gandiflora which is a bit too sour and guaquiea which is supposedly quite good.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1131 on: December 28, 2015, 10:36:44 AM »
From talking to people in the know especially in Brazil and from my limited experience the excellent tasting species are grimals and close relatives, Scarlets and phitrantha. Cambuca seems to be excellent or vry good and all 3 mulchis are just good but rivularis is very good.M.jaboticaba such as sabara and the M.cauliflower such as Paulista are very good as is red hybrid and white.Coronata and oblongata are too sour and yellows are just trash in my view.Vexators are ok,dubia are very sour and the other 8 or 9 main ones the jury is out on.Taste,sourness and thick skin are problems with a few.

Not so simple...

Cauliflora makes some varieties with sour fruit, some with sweet, same with coronata...the variation within these two species is astounding....

Also the yellow jaboticaba is one of my favorites, although there is a poor seed to flesh ratio, the flavor is unique and delicious...and they seem to have fruits when other species don't...late winter, and early spring.
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Mike T

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1132 on: December 29, 2015, 07:46:10 AM »
My 2 yellows are shy bearers and only fruit in summer unlike grimal and sabara that fruit year round in profusion.I think yellows don't like the tropics.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1133 on: December 29, 2015, 10:25:48 AM »
My 2 yellows are shy bearers and only fruit in summer unlike grimal and sabara that fruit year round in profusion.I think yellows don't like the tropics.
Agree with that, I have two Cabelludhiñas, one set lots of fruit 5 years ago and that's all, however keeps flowering every year maybe twice, the other one same age just set fruit for first time this summer, I try everything lots of water ,non water etc. The little bush looks happy all the time do, just Don't set fruit,as Mike said probably likes colder climates or colder winters I only get  17/18 c. for a few hours before the morning in winter time....
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xshen

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1134 on: January 06, 2016, 12:58:11 PM »
Just a FYI on some information I found on the propagation of our favorite fruit.

The topic of rooting jaboticaba cuttings has surfaced on numerous occasions. I was curious and wanted to see if I can root some sabara cuttings to use as rootstocks since they’re hard to come by. Google results mostly pointed to the threads started on TFF. When I started to google by translating the phrases into Spanish (enxerto jabuticaba, propagaçao vegetativa de jabuticaba, etc), there were plenty of well documented studies on the propagation of jaboticabas in Spanish. You just have to translate them back into English.

Rooting terminal cuttings, airlayering, grafting, and tissue culture:
http://repositorio.utfpr.edu.br/jspui/handle/1/271

If the translations are correct, success rate on rooting very small terminal cuttings is only 10%. Airlayering seems a bit more viable. Here is another site I found on airlayering:

http://bonsaifacilrs.blogspot.com/2013/09/alporquia-em-jabuticaba-com-uso-de.html


Here are some more rooting methods. Looks like the Brazilians got a process established for rooting much larger branches.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ihIJBdDlMyw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OvU2N1yhQ1Q
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 03:21:07 PM by xshen »

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1135 on: January 06, 2016, 03:56:47 PM »
Thanks, xshen.  The blog on airlayering is particularly interesting.  It looks like 4-6 months should be a sufficient time period to establish roots in properly airlayered jaboticaba.  I'm going to try that method next on a sabara I have - going for a 2cm branch.  I recently tried to grow a cutting of sabara about 1cm at the base with no roots forming after 4 months (on a different thread).  But, I probably should have left it there for a year to know for sure if it ever would have rooted!
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1136 on: January 06, 2016, 04:04:39 PM »
Just got back from my farm in Brazil and counted 3 mature Jaboticabas growing there.  Unfortunately, all of them are the common variety.  Has anyone ever tried grafting to produce other varieties?  I want to try the red hybrid and white varieties.  Should I try grafting or would I be better off just starting fresh with seedlings?
I am an American from California with a small farm in Southern Brazil. 
Sou americano na Califórnia e tenho um sítio em Brusque, SC, Brasil.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1137 on: January 06, 2016, 04:07:25 PM »
Just got back from my farm in Brazil and counted 3 mature Jaboticabas growing there.  Unfortunately, all of them are the common variety.  Has anyone ever tried grafting to produce other varieties?  I want to try the red hybrid and white varieties.  Should I try grafting or would I be better off just starting fresh with seedlings?

Adam has/does graft many jaboticaba onto sabarah (common type).  The wood is supposedly pretty hard though, fyi.
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xshen

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1138 on: January 06, 2016, 04:47:27 PM »
Just got back from my farm in Brazil and counted 3 mature Jaboticabas growing there.  Unfortunately, all of them are the common variety.  Has anyone ever tried grafting to produce other varieties?  I want to try the red hybrid and white varieties.  Should I try grafting or would I be better off just starting fresh with seedlings?

Grafting jaboticaba vids.

From the jabo man himself:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uYY8FGZp8SE

My favorite grafting method...the whip graft using larger than sharpie size scion:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NLXR7ceifK4
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 04:49:24 PM by xshen »

9B in Brazil

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1139 on: January 06, 2016, 05:47:33 PM »
Thanks for the insight.  I guess what I really want to know now is if top-working can be done to get to a mature producing tree quicker.  I have 3 mature trees that I could top-work, but there are several young sabarah seedling that I could graft onto if that is more reliable than top-working. 
I am an American from California with a small farm in Southern Brazil. 
Sou americano na Califórnia e tenho um sítio em Brusque, SC, Brasil.

Marc Doyle

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1140 on: January 06, 2016, 06:15:56 PM »
Thanks for the insight.  I guess what I really want to know now is if top-working can be done to get to a mature producing tree quicker.  I have 3 mature trees that I could top-work, but there are several young sabarah seedling that I could graft onto if that is more reliable than top-working.

Yes for sure, in many cases, topworking a larger tree, instead of grafting onto a small seedling, will produce fruit much quicker than the latter.

I suppose this is because the juvenile phase is reduced, due to the substantial size of the rootstock.

In order to induce maximum precocity, you must use large scions (which are somewhat difficult to graft, being less forgiving than small scions), and you must place them properly on the mature rootstock.
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1141 on: January 07, 2016, 10:59:19 AM »
I'm going to second what Adam has to say, and add that in my experience I have had the better success rates grafting onto larger root stocks. Even with more difficult varieties, I have had success grafting onto my largest rootstock, which is a 6-7 year old Sabara in a 15 gal. pot. All of the graft were places this year so we will see how long it takes.

The real take away is that a larger rootstock will provide the best chance for success. Given the cost/difficulties finding mature budwood, I would graft onto a larger rootstock. Best of luck! Keep us posted on your progress.
John

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1142 on: January 09, 2016, 11:07:25 PM »
Since we were on the topic of grafting and difficulties therein I couldn't help but add this photo.
 


Cambuca (thanks to Flying Fox Fruits) grafted onto a large Sabara! I was not sure it would take and have failed with this attempt in the past, so I was happy to see this one taking so far.

I'm basically using this tree as a place to keep and grow budwood specimens until I have more room. It's pretty much a giant cocktail so sorry if it's messy/confusing. I tried to center the photo around the Cambuca scion.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 11:09:59 PM by John Travis »
John

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1143 on: January 09, 2016, 11:36:01 PM »
Nice!!

I'm glad you were able to get a take!  I had gave up after a bunch of failures

Lol, now maybe people will get the courage to buy some scions from me!

I was telling people cambuca isn't compatible with Plinia jaboticaba...but now you are the second person to show me that it's not true!

Since we were on the topic of grafting and difficulties therein I couldn't help but add this photo.
 


Cambuca (thanks to Flying Fox Fruits) grafted onto a large Sabara! I was not sure it would take and have failed with this attempt in the past, so I was happy to see this one taking so far.

I'm basically using this tree as a place to keep and grow budwood specimens until I have more room. It's pretty much a giant cocktail so sorry if it's messy/confusing. I tried to center the photo around the Cambuca scion.
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1144 on: January 10, 2016, 10:15:45 AM »
anyone know where i can pick up j. phitrantha var. otto anderson? i only have room to grow one tree, so i would like to try this one since it sounds like one of the best.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1145 on: January 11, 2016, 05:00:17 PM »
anyone know where i can pick up j. phitrantha var. otto anderson? i only have room to grow one tree, so i would like to try this one since it sounds like one of the best.
I will have them this year (sold a few last year...each year more and more)...very limited, and expensive.

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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1146 on: January 20, 2016, 06:53:37 AM »
have been eating a bunch of sabaras lately.  A few observations:

What does jaboticaba taste like?  To me, it tastes like grape flavoring.  Not actual grapes, but like what a grape slush puppie tastes like.  ;D  Delicious!  Once popping the shell open has occurred, the juice really squirts into your mouth with a rush of flavor.  There are usually 1-3 "lumps" of flesh.  Do not swallow if you wish to keep the seeds, as they are inside the "lump" and quite easy to swallow without even realizing it. 

Also, fruit pulp that appears reddish, rather than whitish, has been exposed to oxygen and may taste fermented, like wine.  I don't usually eat the skins, as they are quite tannic, and somewhat rough on my stomach, but I have heard they can have medicinal properties if eaten in limited amounts
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1147 on: January 27, 2016, 02:55:01 AM »
i may!! be having my first successful graft shoot. it's a large leaf on sabara


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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1148 on: January 27, 2016, 03:27:30 AM »
i may!! be having my first successful graft shoot. it's a large leaf on sabara


Nice work amigo

Make sure to never let the rootstock grow any new shoots or leaves...it will try for a while, just remove any suckers with clean hands or pruners.

New growth on the rootstock sucks energy from the scion
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Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« Reply #1149 on: January 27, 2016, 03:50:52 AM »
Thanks Adam and I forgot to say thanks Adam for that very informative video on grafting jaboticaba which inspired me to try. i left thise bottom leaves on in case i didnt take.I'll give it a bit longer then remove them.Watch "Grafting Myrciaria (Enxerto de jabuticaba ) with Adam Shafran, of Flying Fox Fruits" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/uYY8FGZp8SE