Soil Analysis for my yard Southwest Ranches 2020 - Recommendations Welcome!!!

[cbss_daviefl]

I finally took the time to get my soil analyzed.  I wish I had done this when I moved in.  I am pretty lazy and hard headed.  My thanks to Jeff (Cookiemonster) and others for posting so much great information on soil testing and analysis.  I can now see that my pH, calcium, and zinc are way high. My potassium is way low(causing magnesium problems), phosphorus and manganese are low too.  I bought 550 pounds of Tiger90 before I did the test. It is still sitting in a shed. After I bought it, I stopped myself from applying it until I got the testing done. 

 

[Cookie Monster]

Interesting. The soil structure actually looks nice -- good organic matter % and good CEC. The biggest problem is the ca saturation. The jackfruit plots look easily correctable with sulfur. The mamey plot is especially bad (almost 30k ppm ca??). The lychee and mango plots are also fairly high in Ca. I don't know how far you'll be able to modify the Ca saturation / pH on the latter 3, but it's worth a shot. My only recommendation is to stay light on the sulfur around your annonas. They seem to be averse to sulfur.

For the low K, a slow release, high-K analysis like Har's new mix is great. Another option is k-mag. Mn will be hard to correct, especially with the high ca carbonate content. You can try Techmangam. Helena chemical has free delivery on orders > $250.

Once you get the pH down, a lot of other issues will clear up. Be patient on the pH adjustment. It can take up to 2 years for the sulfur to do its thing.

[skhan]

Seems like we all need a good bit of sulfur for our yard.

If you need help reaching the $250 mark for free delivery I can help with a joint order. I wouldn't mind a few bags of Tiger 90.

[cmichael258]

Who did your analysis?

[cbss_daviefl]

So you are thinking I will need to supplement Mn with foliar or soil drenching? I have MnSO4 from amazon that I was adding to my chelated iron soil drenches, which seems to my untrained eye to be similar to tecmangan.   Maybe I should find a chelated Mn?

I bought a 20 pound bag on amazon but I do not see that anymore.  Here is the link to 3 pounds:
https://www.amazon.com/Manganese-Fertilizer-Greenway-Biotech-Inc/dp/B00G3YU1TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485985081&sr=8-1&keywords=manganese+sulfate

My K number is shocking.  Har walked my yard and he told me my K was lacking.  I have been using 8-2-12-4 since.  I need something with low Mg and high K.  Seems even 1:1 ratio is not good for some plants.  Any companies do custom fertilizer mixes in small batches(500 - 750 pounds) at a reasonable price?

I used Spectrum Analytics.  They received the samples Monday and I had the results on Tuesday afternoon.

[Cookie Monster]

Techmangam is the same stuff, but it comes in 55 pound bags and is probably a lot cheaper than amazon. I laid down an entire 55 pounds on about 1/4 acre of soil. My theory was that I could saturate the soil with it and create a reservoir that would release slowly with the help of sulfur.

Another idea is to band the MnSO4, with the theory that you can create super saturated "cells" of Mn that will be available to the plant and less likely to get bound by Ca ions.

If the above "lazy" approaches don't work, you'll have to spray MnSO4 about once a month. Basically you have to time your spray with leaf flushes, as hardened leaves don't absorb it very well -- you'll either end up with cute green leaf freckles in the best case or no noticeable amelioration of symptoms in the worst case.

Your absolute K didn't look that bad. Obviously, you're low, but it was the low K saturation that caught my attention. Ca, Mg, and K compete for the same spots, and apparently, Ca is winning :-).

The 8-2-12 is fantastic. But, I use Hars super mix for my mangoes (no nitrogen). I think both have a good Mg / K balance (if memory serves).

Here's some good info on soil K: http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Potassium_basics.htm

I think minimum custom mix is in the 1 ton range, and slow release mixes will be pricey. Given the size of your orchard, you should be able to plow through 1 ton / 40 bags pretty quickly. But I wouldn't recommend creating your own mix. I'd get someone like Har to devise one for you.

So you are thinking I will need to supplement Mn with foliar or soil drenching? I have MnSO4 from amazon that I was adding to my chelated iron soil drenches, which seems to my untrained eye to be similar to tecmangan.   Maybe I should find a chelated Mn?

I bought a 20 pound bag on amazon but I do not see that anymore.  Here is the link to 3 pounds:
https://www.amazon.com/Manganese-Fertilizer-Greenway-Biotech-Inc/dp/B00G3YU1TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485985081&sr=8-1&keywords=manganese+sulfate

My K number is shocking.  Har walked my yard and he told me my K was lacking.  I have been using 8-2-12-4 since.  I need something with low Mg and high K.  Seems even 1:1 ratio is not good for some plants.  Any companies do custom fertilizer mixes in small batches(500 - 750 pounds) at a reasonable price?

I used Spectrum Analytics.  They received the samples Monday and I had the results on Tuesday afternoon.

[Guanabanus]

The fertilizer manufacturers that I have dealt with so far, have a 4-ton minimum order for custom mixes.

Both Sequestrene and Brexil have chelated Manganese powders.

[cbss_daviefl]

Thanks for the chelated Mn recommendation.  Next time I drive to Homestead/FL City, I will try to get some Brexil.  I sprayed today with the MnSO4 I already had and K-phite (same as plant doctor).  I added Serenade to the batch I sprayed my mango trees with.  The MnSO4 did not dissolve well. After I sprayed the entire yard with 34 tablespoons (1 per gal) of Mn, I had 2 - 3 tablespoons of Mn at the bottom of my tank sprayer. 

As of today, my plan is to apply half the sulfur now (300lbs), the other half in July.  I will apply 12 bags of 0-3-16 (4 in Feb, 4 in May, 4 in Aug) and 12 bags of 8-2-12 (Mar, Jun, Sep).  I will do some foliar spraying (3 - 4 times)  as well.   

[Cookie Monster]

34 gallons of mix? You need to get a mister. I can cover 32 mango trees with 3 gallons of spray on the mister.

I use about 8 bags of 0-3-15 for my 1/2 acre (~80 tree) orchard at a time (8 in fall, 8 in spring). 4 bags seems pretty light considering the property size.

Serenade may not get you the protection you want unless you're in a low disease pressure area (ie, near the coast). I'm using a rotation of pristine, abound, switch, and copper-zinc (the first 3 are reduced risk presticides, the latter OMRI listed). If you really want to go organic, Nordox is the best / most effective product in that category that I've worked with. Per your soil analysis, your soil could use a little more copper.

Thanks for the chelated Mn recommendation.  Next time I drive to Homestead/FL City, I will try to get some Brexil.  I sprayed today with the MnSO4 I already had and K-phite (same as plant doctor).  I added Serenade to the batch I sprayed my mango trees with.  The MnSO4 did not dissolve well. After I sprayed the entire yard with 34 tablespoons (1 per gal) of Mn, I had 2 - 3 tablespoons of Mn at the bottom of my tank sprayer. 

As of today, my plan is to apply half the sulfur now (300lbs), the other half in July.  I will apply 12 bags of 0-3-16 (4 in Feb, 4 in May, 4 in Aug) and 12 bags of 8-2-12 (Mar, Jun, Sep).  I will do some foliar spraying (3 - 4 times)  as well.

[cbss_daviefl]

I have about 1 acre of my yard planted with fruit trees.  I am a bit stingy with fertilizer and chemicals.  Last year I probably used 12 or 14 bags of fert.  My "plan" for this year is based on the recommendations of Soil Analytics. For most areas, they are recommending 150 lbs per acre of K.  Using 50% 8-2-12 and 50% 0-3-16, the average is 14%. 150 divided by .14 = 1071 lbs so my plan is more than the recommendation.  This is the best I can come up with based on my "experience" operating a fruit orchard. 

I plan on ordering some Nordox.  I do need a mister. Otherwise, I will hit that 2 lbs copper pretty quickly.  I am having trouble getting over the mental hurdle of the mister's price tag. I will get there eventually. I just spent too much money on irrigation stuff. 

[Cookie Monster]

OK. You can sometimes find those misters for around 1/2 retail on eBay -- sometimes brand new. For me, the fact that I can cover 40 trees in perhaps 15 minutes cinched the deal. If you factor in how much your time is worth, it pays for itself pretty quickly. Then if you consider  the savings on what you're spraying and how much easier it is to walk around with finger on the throttle in 150 degree summer heat, it's a no-brainer.

I have about 1 acre of my yard planted with fruit trees.  I am a bit stingy with fertilizer and chemicals.  Last year I probably used 12 or 14 bags of fert.  My "plan" for this year is based on the recommendations of Soil Analytics. For most areas, they are recommending 150 lbs per acre of K.  Using 50% 8-2-12 and 50% 0-3-16, the average is 14%. 150 divided by .14 = 1071 lbs so my plan is more than the recommendation.  This is the best I can come up with based on my "experience" operating a fruit orchard. 

I plan on ordering some Nordox.  I do need a mister. Otherwise, I will hit that 2 lbs copper pretty quickly.  I am having trouble getting over the mental hurdle of the mister's price tag. I will get there eventually. I just spent too much money on irrigation stuff.

[Cookie Monster]

I was looking over the analysis again, and your copper is actually really low on a lot of the plots. The recommendation is 2 pounds per acre then re-evaluate -- both on the plots that are sufficient and the ones that are lacking. I think it's just a "general" recommendation. If you look closely, you're still 1/10 of the max ppm (they give you a range between 4 - 20ppm).

At the rate of about 2 pounds per ppm / acre, 2 pounds of Cu would raise your soil levels by about 1ppm, and you'd still be well below the 20ppm.

In my experience, mangoes are really fond of Cu. In soil with higher organic content and high pH (like yours), Cu is often lacking. I've personally watched about 1/2 dozen trees (mango and mango relatives) die a slow death due to Cu deficiency in my neighborhood. My own trees were showing the symptoms of copper deficiency (eg, gummosis).

There is a lot of misinformation circulating about copper. Truth is that it's both an essential nutrient and a fantastic (and NOP-approved) fungicide. But a mister would drastically reduce the amount you would need. I go through 3 tablespoons per month on about 40 trees :-).

[mangomongo]

Your post motivated me to find out what I am working with in my yard in south Merritt Island. I sent the sample to the University of FL soil testing lab. I though that it would be a bit more inclusive than it turned out to be but this was just the back yard, I might send the sample of the front yard to another lab if anyone has any recommendations. ( the back yard had lots of oak trees that are slowly coming down).

pH ) 5.8
A-E Buffer Value:
Mehlich-3 Extractable

Phosphorus (mg/Kg or ppm P) 71

Potassium (mg/Kg or ppm K) 42

Magnesium (mg/Kg or ppm Mg) 38

Calcium (mg/Kg or ppm Ca) 295


LIME AND FERTILIZER RECOMMENDATIONS

Lime: 0.00 lbs per 1000 sq. ft
Nitrogen(N): 2.30 lbs per 1000 sq. ft.
Phosphorous(P2O5): 0.00 lbs per 1000 sq. ft.
Potassium(K2O): 0.70 lbs per 1000 sq. ft.
Magnesium(Mg): 0.46 lbs per 1000 sq. ft.

                                                                            mg/kg in the soil

                              Copper = 2.75               Level above which Cu phytotoxicity may occur = 2.0-3.0

                              Manganese = 1.26         Level below which there may be a crop response to applied Mn   3.0-5.0
                                 
                                Zinc = 4.88                 Level below which there may be a crop response to applied Zn     .5-1.0


                                                             

[Cookie Monster]

The UFL soil test isn't the greatest. No, CEC, organic content analysis, missing many micro nutes (they didn't even include Fe?). You should send a sample off to spectrum.

Ca and K look low.

[mangomongo]

yeah I'm a little disappointed with it, I was never a Tebow fan either lol.  What do you think about the copper level? My neighborhood used to be a mango, avo, lychee farm.

[Cookie Monster]

Copper toxicity threshold is proportional to organic soil content. So, the fact that they are saying that you're already in the Cu toxicity range at 2ppm is an indication that your soil is completely devoid of organic material and very likely has an ultra-low CEC -- in other words, it's beach sand.

If you add some organic material to the soil, the copper toxicity will disappear and gradually turn to deficiency. As an example, a soil with an organic content in the 5% range (and a CEC around 20) would probably not fall into Cu toxicity range until Cu hits above about 20ppm.

My suggestion would be to get a report from Spectrum (it's around $20 with flat rate shipping). It will probably show a super low CEC and a lack of organic content. From there, I would try to build up the soil by laying down tree trimmer mulch. In the meantime, use a low Cu fungicide.

If you don't to go the soil building route, you might consider investing in some gypsum and a slow release K fertilizer. I don't have experience gardening on beach sand, so I don't know how much the soil will retain given what is presumably a very low CEC. So, you could be pretty much urinating the fertilizer away every few months.

yeah I'm a little disappointed with it, I was never a Tebow fan either lol.  What do you think about the copper level? My neighborhood used to be a mango, avo, lychee farm.

[cbss_daviefl]

I had my soil analyzed again almost exactly a year from the last time. Seems like I made some progress pushing my pH down. Potassium readings are still depressingly low.  Zinc seems to be getting too high.  Visibly, leaves in my main jackfruit area are looking pretty good. In past years, lots of signs of Magnesium and Manganese deficiency. This area now has a pH of 7 so minors should be more available than before.

I have a little over an acre of orchard.  I did not keep track of everything I used but here is what I remember:

600 lbs Tiger90 sulfur
600 lbs 8-2-12 Howard fertilizer (edit changed from 900)
300 lbs 8-10-10 Howard fertilizer (edit added)
5 lbs chelated minor mix from Helena chemicals
3 lbs chelated iron 6% 
250 lbs 0-3-16 Har's fertilizer

[Coach62]

Techmangam is the same stuff, but it comes in 55 pound bags and is probably a lot cheaper than amazon. I laid down an entire 55 pounds on about 1/4 acre of soil. My theory was that I could saturate the soil with it and create a reservoir that would release slowly with the help of sulfur.

Another idea is to band the MnSO4, with the theory that you can create super saturated "cells" of Mn that will be available to the plant and less likely to get bound by Ca ions.

If the above "lazy" approaches don't work, you'll have to spray MnSO4 about once a month. Basically you have to time your spray with leaf flushes, as hardened leaves don't absorb it very well -- you'll either end up with cute green leaf freckles in the best case or no noticeable amelioration of symptoms in the worst case.

Your absolute K didn't look that bad. Obviously, you're low, but it was the low K saturation that caught my attention. Ca, Mg, and K compete for the same spots, and apparently, Ca is winning :-).

The 8-2-12 is fantastic. But, I use Hars super mix for my mangoes (no nitrogen). I think both have a good Mg / K balance (if memory serves).

Here's some good info on soil K: http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Potassium_basics.htm

I think minimum custom mix is in the 1 ton range, and slow release mixes will be pricey. Given the size of your orchard, you should be able to plow through 1 ton / 40 bags pretty quickly. But I wouldn't recommend creating your own mix. I'd get someone like Har to devise one for you.

So you are thinking I will need to supplement Mn with foliar or soil drenching? I have MnSO4 from amazon that I was adding to my chelated iron soil drenches, which seems to my untrained eye to be similar to tecmangan.   Maybe I should find a chelated Mn?

I bought a 20 pound bag on amazon but I do not see that anymore.  Here is the link to 3 pounds:
https://www.amazon.com/Manganese-Fertilizer-Greenway-Biotech-Inc/dp/B00G3YU1TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485985081&sr=8-1&keywords=manganese+sulfate

My K number is shocking.  Har walked my yard and he told me my K was lacking.  I have been using 8-2-12-4 since.  I need something with low Mg and high K.  Seems even 1:1 ratio is not good for some plants.  Any companies do custom fertilizer mixes in small batches(500 - 750 pounds) at a reasonable price?

I used Spectrum Analytics.  They received the samples Monday and I had the results on Tuesday afternoon.

Curious, why no nitrogen?

[Orkine]

Interesting read, what does it cost with spectrum to do 1 sample?
I had never thought of sending a sample off for testing but it might be a good idea for me.
I have a dozen mango and a few other trees and would like to see what if anything I need to do to my soil.

[cbss_daviefl]

The testing I get is the S3. I have not received the invoice yet for this year but I believe the cost is $14 per sample.  They sent me a pricing guide in the mail but I think it got tossed in the recycle bin with the daily stack of junk mail.  The results were available the day after they received the shipment. They request that you send them a cup to a pint of soil for the test. They have a guide on the website with sampling instructions.

[Cookie Monster]

Very nice. The fertilization regimen has definitely improved all of the numbers. The minors, K, and P are higher. And the pH has dropped a good bit. After you do this for a couple of years, the numbers should start looking really nice.

Since you do have a good bit of organic matter and a strong CEC, the soil should retain a lot of of the nutrients you're applying. In my case, it took me a good couple of years worth of fertilization until all of the chlorosis cleared up.

Helena has a 0-0-6 minors mix (which Har turned me onto) that has been magic.

[Guanabanus]

Thank you for sharing this update, and congratulations on the soil improvements, including increasing organic matter and starting to improve the Potassium levels.   

I am glad to hear that the Jakfruit trees look better.   I assume that the irrigation that you were installing when I was there made a big difference.  Continuing most of what you are doing will show gradual improvement.

Increasing Potassium considerably more and increasing Boron some will probably be more productive.

Unfortunately, both the Howard 8-2-12 and my last year's formulation of the Rare Fruit Council 0-3-16 only have 0.10% of Boron.

My formulation of the 0-3-16 for this year, sold at Truly Tropical, has 0.25% Boron.   

And I am using Helena Chemical's mix #14789:  8-2-12-4Mg with Humate and Tiger-90 Sulfur.  It is about 90% slow-release on the NPK (and about 40% more expensive than their various 8-2-12 fast-release mixes, and than Howard's too), and it has 0.22% Boron.  (On the down side, besides price, is low Manganese)

[Guanabanus]

I wish lab's charts would use yellow for deficiency, green for sufficiency, pink for excess, and red for toxic.

However, this lab uses yellow to mean "slightly off."   The effect is often to seem to invite application of more of that nutrient in any case, even though the test may actually be showing "slightly off into the excessive range."  See most of your sample results for Iron in 2017.

Beware also of "anomalies": due to sampling errors, test malfunctions, typo's, etc.  See the Calcium reading of the last sample for both years:  dropped by 10,000.
Yeah, a lot of people would like to know how to do that!

Another example: a customer got off-the-chart Sulfur readings on all four mango and lychee leaf-tissue tests, even though the trees had not been sprayed with anything in years, and even though the soil test showed low Sulfur.  Again, yeah right.

But, of course, most of the results are useful.

[cbss_daviefl]

Thanks Har and Jeff!

I will place an order with Helena for their 8-2-12. Would love to be able to browse their catalog but when I was there I was told they are not retail and didnt have one.

Looking for solutions to supplement the standard mixes, I have been browsing the online suppliers. 7 springs farm has a granular boron 10%. Label states 10 lbs per ppm per acre. They have granular 0-0-50 and granular sul-po-mag. All the phosphorous products seem to include a lot of calcium, which I already have an overabundance. I found granular monoammonium phosphate 11-62-0 on Amazon. Palm products from manganese sulphate are available from the big box stores.

I do have quite a few stunted trees that have dieback. Low phosphorous may be a contributing factor. One stunted mango trees has orange/red stems.

[Guanabanus]

Boron deficiency is likely the primary culprit of the dieback.  Many other deficiencies can contribute to that, or more likely contribute to stunting.