The Tropical Fruit Forum
Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: SoCal2warm on July 09, 2018, 07:55:17 PM
-
(https://s33.postimg.cc/6zdj69shn/20180709_161858.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6zdj69shn/)
Bloomsweet grapefruit
(https://s33.postimg.cc/9gpado257/20180709_161942.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9gpado257/)
Duncan citrumelo
(https://s33.postimg.cc/6p60mnqnf/20180709_162133.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6p60mnqnf/)
Keraji mandarin (small seedling)
(https://s33.postimg.cc/hd9rldy0r/20180709_162216.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hd9rldy0r/)
I was told this hybrid (on grafted rootstock) was originally grown from a seedling that was some sort of hybrid that included C. ichangensis and Minneola tangelo in its lineage. It's very probably a M.I.C.
I don't have all the info about this variety, but it's very likely the result of several select hybridizations by cold-hardy citrus grower enthusiasts over many many years, a real labor of love. I'm expecting it will have a good balance of cold hardiness to edibility.
I'm in zone 8a, but we have a long cool season that doesn't really begin warming up until late May. So the growing season for citrus is very short.
Just thought some of you might be interested in some unusual varieties of cold-hardy citrus growing in a part of the country people normally don't try to grow citrus. (Olympia, WA)
Right now it's humid, overcast, and warm, but it hasn't significantly rained for the last few weeks. Very low precipitation in the Summer.
-
I also have 'Arctic Frost' next to "Ten Degree" mandarin, and later hope to eventually make a hybrid.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/nr3wm4z23/20180709_171256.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nr3wm4z23/)
Arctic Frost is hybrid between an early ripening variety of Satsuma and Changsha.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/9ko5qxyhn/20180709_171434.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9ko5qxyhn/)
Ten Degree is a hybrid between Clementine and Yuzu.
-
Why are you planting them so young?
They are very frost tender at that young age.
For me they should be at least two or better three years old after grafting.
-
Ideally I should have waited until they were bigger, but I worried if I didn't get them in the ground they might not survive. I haven't been very good about maintaining them well in small containers.
In small containers they need constant attention and care to make sure they don't dry out (and they don't do well with waterlogged soil either). I just have way too many of them to put in larger containers.
The Winters here can actually be pretty mild (though long), so I'll just have to hope the small ones can survive. They have a much better chance in the ground than in a container if they're going to be left outside. The cold here mostly stays slightly above freezing. This January I went out and there were a lot of camellias in bloom, and there were even a few blooms on my rose bush (though they didn't look so well), though it was an unusual Winter this year. There are some people in the neighborhood growing bananas (the ornamental kind) outside.
-
These are some keraji seedlings that will be kept inside:
(https://s22.postimg.cc/r2mbuvzxp/20180619_182555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/r2mbuvzxp/)
-
Nice collection! Good luck with your trees.
-
Cold frame enclosure covered by transparent plastic, with small Satsuma mandarin inside:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0z8f3FvF/20180926_145226.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0z8f3FvF)
Small Yuzu, has put on a fair amount of growth over the last month, but I think the growing season has now coming to an end:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkqZtPHc/20180926_154402.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkqZtPHc)
'Dunstan' Citrumelo, not really in the sunniest spot but I think citrumelo, being a trifoliate hybrid, is a bit more vigorous and resilient growing than the others:
(https://i.postimg.cc/K1x2WGRb/20180926_154448.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1x2WGRb)
If you can believe it, it's the only one I have that has trifoliate leaves. (I tried to avoid the trifoliate hybrids because of their disreputable taste)
-
(https://i.postimg.cc/3kKYxzRV/20181003_124524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kKYxzRV)
Yuzu, Pacific Northwest zone 8a
-
Here's another keraji seedling, a bit larger, planted in ground, with a plastic cover:
(https://i.postimg.cc/B8Gw0SWG/keraji1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8Gw0SWG)(https://i.postimg.cc/q6g1LgK2/keraji2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6g1LgK2)
-
Update on Yuzu seedling, outside in ground, October 15
(https://i.postimg.cc/QFwfmh87/20181015-130705.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFwfmh87)
-
Ten Degree Tangerine
(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9MxJVgD/20181117-115551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9MxJVgD)
today
-
Bloomsweet with a protective plant cover over it, up against a South-facing wall in a sunny warm spot:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9Gb9cwx/20181118-134010.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9Gb9cwx)
-
Socsl2warm, you’re only covering them before a predicted freeze, right? Or are they covered just for the photos? As you know, they are more cold hardy if allowed to experience temps in 30’s and 40’s and be somewhat dormant before a freeze event, and temps inside enclosure can sore into 90’s causing break in dormancy if daytime temps in 50’s. Sounds like you have a favorable climate if most winter lows are above freezing; should help trees stay dormant. Best of luck!
-
Socal2warm, you’re only covering them before a predicted freeze, right? Or are they covered just for the photos? As you know, they are more cold hardy if allowed to experience temps in 30’s and 40’s and be somewhat dormant before a freeze event
You're forgetting these are growing in the PNW, pretty far latitude North.
I think the particular climate where these are growing makes them particularly suitable to using a plant cover. Relatively mild winters, but pretty constant cool temperatures most of the time. I'm leaving them on all the time at this time into the year, but am pretty confident they're not going to overheat in there. The temperatures on a warm sunny day at this time in the year only get up to 52.
In fact I'm counting on those covers to help raise the daytime temperatures during the early Spring, because otherwise the temperatures are going to be too low to start growing.
I think about November through the start of April is the time when it is appropriate to have the cover on, the danger of overheating doesn't really begin until April here.
These covers might not work so well in somewhere like the South.
-
Seattle and Paris have roughly the same climate conditions, with the hermetic cover in a sunny spot shown for Bloomsweet the death of the plant is guaranteed.
-
Socal2warm I would not cover any of my citrus under a plastic cover for long. For a sudden very cold night or for a prolonged freeze as an extra protection to keep the artificial warmth from the heating cable, yes or when the particular spot doesn't get much sun in winter.
I use more fleece or hydrophobic fleece bags to keep the water out.
And I'm sure our winter sun is much weaker than yours and its colder here too.
-
Btw, here are some of my keraji fruits.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0MNZMNq2/IMG-20181117-171236.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0MNZMNq2)
And my yuzu
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKRbY4xT/IMG-20181117-104220.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKRbY4xT)
Grown in Switzerland!
-
Seattle and Paris have roughly the same climate conditions, with the hermetic cover in a sunny spot shown for Bloomsweet the death of the plant is guaranteed.
Socal2warm I would not cover any of my citrus under a plastic cover for long.
The cover does have a permeable fabric mesh at the top to vent off extra heat. Although I would not be that concerned even if the plant was completely surrounded in the plastic. I'm fairly sure the plant isn't going to overheat during the Winter here, the temperatures stay pretty cool.
I took a measurement and the temperature inside the cover is only 6 degrees F (that's 3.3 degrees C) warmer than the temperature read right outside the cover on a sunny day.
And I'm sure our winter sun is much weaker than yours and its colder here too.
I believe the location here is comparable to the far South of Switzerland, at least during the Winter.
In about late November the climate transitions from a cooler Mediterranean-like climate to a wet temperate rainforest.
I am at the same latitude as you. Just not in the mountains with elevation. Although there is often very cool air blowing in from the Pacific Ocean, that I think approximates a high elevation level, at least more than half the time in the Winter.
Very remarkable that you are able to grow Keraji in Lucerne, although not surprising they haven't seemed to ripen all the way.
I'm sure there must be many culinary uses for green Keraji fruits even if they haven't rippened all the way.
-
They dont seem to be ripe from their appearance, but they taste great eaten
right from the tree!
The ones on the picture have changed from hard fruits to soft with a loose peel.
Thats why I belive they are ripe.
The tase is sweet and sour, I find it somehow unique.
-
The tase is sweet and sour, I find it somehow unique.
Probably reminiscent of Satsuma, I would imagine, though more sour and like lemonade.
-
Frost on the plastic container cover over the keraji
(https://i.postimg.cc/gxCtVq9f/20181206-104907.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxCtVq9f)
Arctic Frost, you can seen frost on it
(https://i.postimg.cc/sv8Tz92v/20181206-104830.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sv8Tz92v)
-
Pictures taken just now, January 17
Yuzu
(https://i.postimg.cc/SnT38yf3/20190117-112823.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnT38yf3)
(Notice those little blooming white flowers in the background! It's the middle of Winter!)
Dunstan citrumelo
(https://i.postimg.cc/TK4N1tRX/20190117-112848.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TK4N1tRX)
Arctic Frost mandarin (doesn't look like it's doing as well)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pyRwg1r0/20190117-113127.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyRwg1r0)
Satsuma mandarin
It had a frame cover over it but the winds broke apart the cover in early January and it's been exposed since then. No extremely cold frosts during this time, however.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CzfsJw09/20190117-113303.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzfsJw09)
Here's the "MIC" hybrid,
leaves mostly all yellow, a few greenish-yellow
(https://i.postimg.cc/zVJqFGTG/20190117-113320.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVJqFGTG)
small Keraji seedling,
it has a little plastic cover over it but I took it off so you could see.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dk5cW82Q/20190117-113337.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dk5cW82Q)
seems to be managing to survive in ground
Here are some non-citrus ones.
Hardy gardenia 'Crown Jewel'
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDhvXHSQ/20190117-113455.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDhvXHSQ)
Yellow camellia hybrid
because it's a nitidissima cross it's not as hardy as normal camellias, but it seems to be doing okay so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sMY86YyF/20190117-113211.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMY86YyF)
Those "weeds" surrounding it are actually foxgloves that had been popping up everywhere.
Note all the leaves are still green. The leaves on the bamboo are still green as well, and don't seem to have dropped. (That's not even something you'd see in the Tokyo region, strange)
Cork Oak,
these are said to only be hardy to zone 8 (or 9)
but it still has all its leaves
(https://i.postimg.cc/tYX6HGnm/20190117-113145.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYX6HGnm)
Most of the roses still have all of their leaves as well (at least the ones the deer didn't eat).
This is in Olympia, WA, middle of Winter. (very far north in latitude, by the way)
Compared to other parts on the East Coast it's more like an early cold Spring.
I don't think regular camellias can even survive outside of a greenhouse north of Virginia, and certainly not gardenias.
But last year here I saw several 12 foot tall camellia bushes blooming on New Years Day.
-
Update on Yuzu seedling in ground
(https://i.postimg.cc/F73cpDmN/20190124-123429.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F73cpDmN)
Jan 24
It still has all its leaves and is looking pretty good.
-
They all look like they're going to survive:
Satsuma
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJXZHFgs/20190128-132651.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJXZHFgs)
Ten Degree
it doesn't look any worse than it did in November
(https://i.postimg.cc/qhpLrRwj/20190128-132622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhpLrRwj)
the Keraji seedling seemed to suffer some minor damage to its outer leaves. it's been under a plastic cover, which has blown off a few times. You can tell it hasn't liked the cold, but still looks green like it may likely survive
(https://i.postimg.cc/FY9sjXTw/20190128-132809.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY9sjXTw)
Here's the MIC hybrid
most of the leaves are pretty yellow but a few towards the bottom inside are yellowish green. It looks like it will survive.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zbq9Qqg1/20190128-132701.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbq9Qqg1)
As you can see, the foxgloves all surrounding it still have green leaves and are slowly growing.
Just for comparison, so you have a better idea what the temperatures are like, most of the rose bushes still have most of their leaves and are now beginning to send out new bud growth (I even saw some tiny little leaflets growing on one).
-
Here's a picture of a Changsha mandarin just planted outside
(https://i.postimg.cc/4nGGtg54/20190320-162953.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nGGtg54)
Only taking a picture of it now so I can show you what it looks like in three days after it goes through the stress of suddenly being moved outside with cold nights and sun.
It was previously inside a grow tent with fairly high levels of humidity, fairly stable temperatures and artificial light.
Previously I have discovered citrus, even cold hardy citrus, initially struggles to adapt from being moved inside to outside, even though daytime temperatures may still be warm and the nights, while cold, are still above freezing. I don't know if it's the cold temperature, change in light level, or maybe sun causing evaporation losses that the leaves are not adapted to.
-
Here's a picture of one of the "MIC" ((CiTemple edible x Ichang papeda) x Minneola tangelo) plants. It was grown indoors in a grow tent but has now been outside for a few days days, seems to be happy:
(https://i.postimg.cc/TpSKZCr5/20190329-132912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TpSKZCr5)
Here's a picture of the other MIC that was planted in-ground and was exposed to the Winter. As you can see it didn't do so well, there's only a green stem buried deep down in there amongst the dead branches. Don't know if it will be able to sprout back.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FkzK6Lzx/20190329-132957.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FkzK6Lzx)
Both are on rootstock.
I think the MIC hybrid was a good idea but maybe that one that was hybridized didn't end up getting the best combination of cold hardy genes.
zone 8a, Pacific Northwest, colder Winter than usual this year with the little plants getting burried in snow. The MIC was looking good until early February when the snow came.
I'm estimating the temperatures got down to 14 degrees in that spot of the yard, at the lowest point. (And daytime temperatures this Winter were never that warm)
-
SoCal , it looks like you have joined a number of US hardy citrus growers in our "moment of truth" in regards to an eye opening reality check this February. Hopefully the plants you have on life support will survive and recover. It can be disheartening to see plants on which we have high hopes succumb to cold.
-
Bloom on Bloomsweet grapefruit
(https://i.postimg.cc/7JL2bnrF/20190403-113059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JL2bnrF)
but it doesn't smell like grapefruit blossoms, it smells more like the blossoms of sour orange, with a hint of bergamot and pomelo blossom.
-
Looks like there's a tiny fruit beginning to form on my new Ichang papeda:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9hn7w00/20190507-184156.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9hn7w00)
-
How old is that Ichang papeda. Did you start it from seed?
-
How old is that Ichang papeda. Did you start it from seed?
Just picked it up yesterday. It was probably growing inside a greenhouse.
-
Here's the nitidissima hybrid yellow camellia:
(https://i.postimg.cc/crVQ6JX2/20190603-165546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crVQ6JX2)
It struggled to survive the Winter, suffered severe leaf damage, mostly lost all its leaves, and I could tell suffered some frost damage to the buds, but it has finally leafed out now.
I would say this borderline survived.
Nitidissima is a rare subtropical camellia, I am happy this hybrid managed to survive.
The 'Crown Jewel' hardy gardenia hybrid plants survived. The leaves all recovered their healthy green color, and no leaf loss. They did surprisingly well, considering they were buried in 18 inches of snow with the terrible Winter this year.
The cork oak (Quercus suber) is doing well. Survived the Winter just fine, did not even lose its leaves.
I was told it was a Mediterranean oak species so might not survive. Have one small seedling in the ground and a larger one in a container.
So it can take the Pacific Northwest, climate zone 8a.
These rare plant varieties give some good indication what types of plants can survive here.
Also a large-flower exhibition variety chrysanthemum, 'Heather James', was able to survive outside here.
'Hagoromo' barely is alive, and just sent out a small leaf from a lower brown stem. I had numerous other exhibition varieties and none of them survived, so these two varieties appear to be the most resilient out of the lot. (Exhibition varieties are different from normal garden chrysanthemums, not as hardy)
Also two rare hardy pomegranate small trees have leafed out now, 'Parfianka' and 'Crimson Sky'. They should survive the worst Winters here, and I am hoping to be able to hybridize them together into a better new hardy variety.
Big fig trees loaded with huge figs are not uncommon in yards around here.
-
Here's a Yuzu I just planted
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDG345tr/20190609-181112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDG345tr)
This Yuzu actually survived in a container, inside greenhouse when the roof completely collapsed in due to the weight of snow.
The greenhouse was still intact when the coldest temperature hit (12-14 °F), although the greenhouse had a lot of big cracks leaking in cold air. Just two or three days later there was even more snow and that's when the collapse happened, so there effectively was not a roof after that, it was open to the elements. This Yuzu (in the picture) lost all its leaves but later regrew them, being left in the container outside. Another Yuzu that was in there kept its leaves. (They are from different nurseries so might have to do with the rootstock)
I had to dig out the Satsuma that died, and planted this Yuzu in its place.
The Satsuma was covered throughout the Winter, up until early April. There were three gallon water containers in there, that never froze even during the coldest temperature drop in Winter. It was a colder Winter than usual, and with a deep blanket of snow, which is not usual here.
Here is a picture of the graft union on the Satsuma tree:
(https://i.postimg.cc/FY9GhzL2/20190609-181007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY9GhzL2)
The Satsuma part is dead and brown, while the rootstock section right below the graft union is still a deep green. (June 9 )
It obviously was not a rootstock issue, the Satsuma scion simply was not able to survive the cold temperatures apparently.
This was up against a south-facing fence, in a warmer spot in the yard.
The Satsuma actually looked like it was likely going to survive, despite the leaves looking completely trashed, until the middle of April when the full damage started to become evident.
(The Satsuma was covered with a special clear vinyl plastic plant enclosure, it had a flimsy frame that quickly collapsed under the weight of snow)
So it looks like Satsuma (or at least a small Satsuma) cannot survive through the colder Winters here, even covered, with passive protection.
But Yuzu looks like it can survive, and even do very well with just the slightest bit of protection.
I actually went out there, just 3 or 4 hours before temperatures were expected to dip to their lowest point, and filled the three water containers with hot water and put them back under the covering. Apparently even that was not enough to save the Satsuma. This was late at night I went out there and there was no ice in the containers before I changed it out with hot water, which was surprisingly because there was already a foot of snow on the ground which had been there for a few days, and the days had remained cold.
-
Here's the Bloomsweet, that survived the Winter under a cover
(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9h8Cy2M/20190609-195917.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9h8Cy2M)
It managed to grow out a few leaves, despite severe damage to the trunk. (leaves grew out above the damage)
and of course it was not one of the mild Winters this year
the cover had breathable fabric on the top, though that was covered in snow
-
Here's the very small Yuzu seedling that survived the Winter, it now has several small leaves growing out of it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xXw301tr/20190612-200128.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXw301tr)
-
just planted ichangquat in the ground
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnY1Vmn6/20190702-104553.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnY1Vmn6)
-
Just planted another Ichang papeda in the ground
(https://i.postimg.cc/bdbBLRQd/20190822-160220.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdbBLRQd)
This is a Changsha mandarin, planted earlier this year
(https://i.postimg.cc/dhT6ts43/20190814-085824.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhT6ts43)
will be interesting to see how they do here.
It is only 8a, but pretty far North.
-
Here's an update on the little Keraji and Yuzu seedlings that recovered after going through the winter
keraji
(https://i.postimg.cc/4nw3TpzM/20190822-192803.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nw3TpzM)
yuzu
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFbQmqhF/20190817-120213.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFbQmqhF)
So yes, it is possible for small seedlings to survive the winter here. They were almost completely killed back, but have been able to sort of recover.
(It's worth pointing out that I planted 2 of each and only 1 of each survived, so make sure you choose a warm sunny optimal spot if you plan to try this)
I think the Yuzu seedling looks just a tiny bit bigger than it did this time last year. Growing on their own roots, obviously.