Author Topic: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?  (Read 4592 times)

KarenRei

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I'm finding some rather limited - and perhaps incongruous - data on the yields of jaboticaba species and their relatives (optimum soil / sunlight / feeding conditions), and I'm looking for feedback  :)

So far I've only found two references that seem of utility: one said that Myrciaria dubia / Camu Camu yields 12t/ha in cultivation (rather low by fruit standards, about 40% more than Mangosteen - a standard low-yielding fruit).  The other states that a mature Jaboticaba (apparently Sabara) yields 1000 pounds (~400kg) in Brazil.  Going with the assumption that by mature they mean "huge", and going with 9 meter (30 foot) trees, spaced 9x9 meters apart (from the same source: "He felt that 30 feet was the correct spacing without pruning"), this works out to around 50t/ha, which is a very large yield (say, high density oranges grown under optimal conditions, or double that of high density mango cultivation).

For you growing jaboticabas, what would you estimate yields would be for your various species/varieties, and what said "optimum conditions" would be?  I assume that you don't know t/ha figures, but I can work with any sort of figures - e.g. "The yield is similar to oranges", "I get about X pounds per fruiting and Y fruitings per year on a tree that's Z feet tall", etc.   :)  Even comparisons of annual yields between different jaboticaba varieties would be of use! 

(Note: per year, not per harvest  :)  )
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 07:34:28 PM by KarenRei »
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KarenRei

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 06:49:05 PM »
No comments on what sort of annual yields you get?  :)  I guess it might be tricky to estimate when you're just picking things off "as they ripen"
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simon_grow

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2018, 07:01:48 PM »
Karen, you are very technical:)

I’m not sure if anyone has the yield numbers you are looking for but I’m sure a lot of members will agree with me if I say they produce a lot of fruit once fully mature and if getting enough water. Some varieties will produce multiple crops and I’ve even read about people saying that their trees producing almost year round. Maybe some of the Brazilian publications will have the numbers you are looking for?

Simon

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 11:44:38 AM »
In Brazil, I see yields greatest with Jabuticaba Sabará, given that they have about 4 crops a year and are very productive and precocious.  I found agreement with this in the literature as well: https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jaboticaba.html
and http://www.jabuticabeira.com.br/ though I can't find a quantitative yield per hectare. 
I am an American from California with a small farm in Southern Brazil. 
Sou americano na Califórnia e tenho um sítio em Brusque, SC, Brasil.

Marc Doyle

KarenRei

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 01:00:24 PM »
In Brazil, I see yields greatest with Jabuticaba Sabará, given that they have about 4 crops a year and are very productive and precocious.  I found agreement with this in the literature as well: https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jaboticaba.html
and http://www.jabuticabeira.com.br/ though I can't find a quantitative yield per hectare.

Thanks - what other Jabuticaba species is this in comparison to?
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OCchris1

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2018, 02:29:38 AM »
Sabara is precocious? That is a streeeeetch. Sabara are among the slowest growing (for me). Sabara does fruit well (nearly) year 'round (given you have 7-10 years to wait). The red hybrid (Mryciaria Cauliflora x Aureana) Produces fast (under 3 years in some cases), and produces flowers most of the year (given the proper conditions.) I have many others but no fruit as of yet. I have found up to this point, that my red jab's are the most sensitive seedlings to get "up to speed"/and/or get to a size that they will grow without stress.. They die back constantly when very young. Good luck to you. Chris
-Chris

KarenRei

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2018, 04:19:37 AM »
Sabara is precocious? That is a streeeeetch. Sabara are among the slowest growing (for me). Sabara does fruit well (nearly) year 'round (given you have 7-10 years to wait). The red hybrid (Mryciaria Cauliflora x Aureana) Produces fast (under 3 years in some cases), and produces flowers most of the year (given the proper conditions.) I have many others but no fruit as of yet. I have found up to this point, that my red jab's are the most sensitive seedlings to get "up to speed"/and/or get to a size that they will grow without stress.. They die back constantly when very young. Good luck to you. Chris

Do you think a red produces as much as a Sabara, relative to the amount of area it takes up, over the course of a year in optimal conditions? 

And yeah, this was actually the first time I've ever seen anyone call Sabara precocious  ;)  That said, there do appear to exist even slower jabos than Sabara!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 06:30:44 AM by KarenRei »
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waxy

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2018, 12:21:50 PM »
I have several jabos, Sabara and Hybrid are fruiting year round.
The Red Hybrid is a very prolific producer at an early age.
I was able to get fruits every month up until winter.

I would have to say Sabara increases production every year as it ages.
The Hybrid seems to have a consistent amount once it starts producing, haven't seen any major increase in harvest.

Long term I'd have to say they're both equal in accordance to the size and age of the tree.
Due to the fact that the sabara's harvest increases to catch up with the hybrid production.
My zone gets really cold, below 30's so I'm sure if it's in a warmer climate it'll produce better.

fruitlovers

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2018, 05:56:44 PM »
I'm finding some rather limited - and perhaps incongruous - data on the yields of jaboticaba species and their relatives (optimum soil / sunlight / feeding conditions), and I'm looking for feedback  :)

So far I've only found two references that seem of utility: one said that Myrciaria dubia / Camu Camu yields 12t/ha in cultivation (rather low by fruit standards, about 40% more than Mangosteen - a standard low-yielding fruit).  The other states that a mature Jaboticaba (apparently Sabara) yields 1000 pounds (~400kg) in Brazil.  Going with the assumption that by mature they mean "huge", and going with 9 meter (30 foot) trees, spaced 9x9 meters apart (from the same source: "He felt that 30 feet was the correct spacing without pruning"), this works out to around 50t/ha, which is a very large yield (say, high density oranges grown under optimal conditions, or double that of high density mango cultivation).

For you growing jaboticabas, what would you estimate yields would be for your various species/varieties, and what said "optimum conditions" would be?  I assume that you don't know t/ha figures, but I can work with any sort of figures - e.g. "The yield is similar to oranges", "I get about X pounds per fruiting and Y fruitings per year on a tree that's Z feet tall", etc.   :)  Even comparisons of annual yields between different jaboticaba varieties would be of use! 

(Note: per year, not per harvest  :)  )
Only places that produce these fruits commercially are going to have these kinds of figures you seek. Also you should note that a jaboticaba in Brazil, it's native habitat and soil and ideal fertilization, is going to produce far more than a plant grown in a greenhouse in Iceland. I am not sure why you want these figures? But even a jaboticaba in Hawaii is going to produce way less than one grown on a commercial farm in Brazil. Also you should know that when they say mature jaboticabas, they can be taking about plants that are 50-100 years old. Sabara is very slow growing plant. I have a friend here that measured amounts produced one year just because he was selling the jaboticaba fruits to a winery. He had 5 trees, over 25 years old, and off the 5 trees he harvested 500 pounds. (He was very happy because at $2 a pound he made $1000 in one day's picking.) Yes jaboticabas are very productive, but 1000 pounds off one tree? I don't think any member in this forum will achieve this, at least not in their own lifetime. Maybe if they buy a farm in Brazil?  ;D
Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 07:17:44 PM »
I have several jabos, Sabara and Hybrid are fruiting year round. The Red Hybrid is a very prolific producer at an early age.
I was able to get fruits every month up until winter.

I would have to say Sabara increases production every year as it ages.
The Hybrid seems to have a consistent amount once it starts producing, haven't seen any major increase in harvest.

Long term I'd have to say they're both equal in accordance to the size and age of the tree.
Due to the fact that the sabara's harvest increases to catch up with the hybrid production.
My zone gets really cold, below 30's so I'm sure if it's in a warmer climate it'll produce better.

Thanks, that's great information.  :)

Quote from: fruitlovers
Only places that produce these fruits commercially are going to have these kinds of figures you seek.

Hence the request for simply comparative estimates.  I know that nobody here is actually going to be measuring tonnes per hectare.  :)

Quote
Also you should note that a jaboticaba in Brazil, it's native habitat and soil and ideal fertilization, is going to produce far more than a plant grown in a greenhouse in Iceland

Indeed - hence the reason I'm not trying to collect figures for "greenhouse production in Iceland"  :)  Nor would it matter.  I'm purely looking for general productivity figures that can be compared vs. each other - relative figures, not absolutes.  But of course, there has to be a baseline for relative figures (since there's so much randomness involved) - hence, I use "optimum conditions" as the baseline, so we don't get, say, someone trying to grow cherimoya in Florida balancing their meagre results off against their atemoyas  ;)

Quote
I am not sure why you want these figures?

I'm building an exotic plants database storing hundreds of attributes of thousands of plants.  Aka, can be used for general queries, looking up cultivation details, all sorts of things - everything from the temperature and humidity a plant prefers, what kind of soil, what kind of soil moisture, how well it performs in differing lighting conditions, whether it has thorns, whether it coppices, whether it's dioecious, what pollinates it, flowering times and triggers, time to fruit maturity, floral scent, leaf scent, medical utility (both traditional and researched), interesting stories, rarity.... just hundreds of different factors that can be looked up at will. Beyond that, having the database lets me create formulae to evaluate different plants vs. each other over a huge range of different factors - including things like how hard seeds are to acquire, how difficult plants are to cultivate, appearance (flowers, fruit, plant form, etc), scent, and countless other factors.  Relative (not absolute) productivities are obviously a very important factor in this.

So for example, with Annonas, with the current formulas (which I can readily change the ratings at will), cherimoya comes out on top, with a food rating (taking into account quality, productivity, etc) of 48,7, appearance rating of 7,9, "other properties" rating of 9,5, and penalties/bonuses score of 2,02, for a net score of 49,5 (the final score isn't simply a sum, it tries for a balance of all factors).  Something like annona spraguei comes in with a food rating of 12,4, appearance rating of 14,1, other rating of 7,8, penalties/bonuses of 3,6, and a net score of 16,3.  So if I were to uprate the importance of appearance or rarity, for example, A. spraguei would earn a higher score, while if I uprated, say, penalties for difficulties of acquisition or cultivation or the like, its rating would fall.

Now it would be simple enough just to, say, look at Annonas and say, "A, B, and C are the best annonas".  But of course, the world is not just  annonas; there's hundreds upon hundreds of interesting genuses, and more to the point, you can't just put any plant in any location.  Each location needs to be constrained by temperature / humidity requirements, available light, and available space (particularly height), and may (or may not) impose root space or soil constraints. And certain types of plants - say, medicinal plants, or attractive plants, or rare plants, or aquatic plants, or whatnot - may be desirable in certain locations. With a database, I can group out plants by specific properties, and then select the best ones from each.  Of course, it only serves to create a shortlist; nothing can beat a human for making final selections!

So the short of "why do you want these figures".... the significance of measurements of a fruit (taste, texture, flesh to weight ratio, appearance, etc) is proportional to how much of it is actually produced. E.g. without productivity figures, it'd treat some mass-produced high-yield fruit the same as some uncultivated jungle fruit that's lucky to produce a couple fruits once every few years. Clearly you can see how that's a non-starter!  So while there's absolutely no realistic way to assess "actually achievable" production figures, having comparative figures (using the baseline of "relative yields in optimum conditions") gives some way to help compare species with each other.  And actually, for a surprising number of species, even ones you might think would be too esoteric, they can be gotten or calculated!  But here in the case of Plinias and Myrciarias, I only could dig up results for two species, and they weren't good for helping narrow things down.

Quote
Also you should know that when they say mature jaboticabas, they can be taking about plants that are 50-100 years old. Sabara is very slow growing plant

Indeed!  I have growth tables that estimate size by years, and when production starts (on the presumption of increases over time as plants mature), and the longer these times are, the more it hurts that plant's score. This is weighed off against the area that the plant takes up - aka, if a plant takes a decade to first yield something, but during that time it only grows a meter or two, it may still be justifiable. But if a plant takes only four years, but becomes a monster during that time, it may well not be.  At the same time, there are some plants we'll want to become large early on, even if the plan is to replace them later.

Building estimated growth tables also helps show where it might be more optimal to import more mature plants rather than starting from seed.

It's all, of course, just approximation.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:10:12 PM by KarenRei »
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Mike T

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2018, 08:41:20 PM »
If you multiplied tree yield per fruiting, frequency of fruiting, tree size etc to get the standard t/ha or yield/area/yr sabara would have to rate very highly and scarlet would do well also. Grimal and red hybrid would have respectable yields.

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2018, 09:48:25 PM »
You might want to take a look at this page:
http://www.hawaiifruit.net/index-pubs.html
Here on Kona side of the island Ken Love tried to measure productivity of certain types of tropical fruit trees.
Jackfruit
Jaboticaba
Rollinia
Soursop
Bilimbi
Abiu
Cherimoya
Figs
Grumichama
Kumquat
Loquat / biwa
Mysore Raspberry
Poha
Pomgranate
Kona "rangpur" lime
Surinam Cherry
Tree Tomato / Tamarillo
Tropical Apricot
 e mostly went after figures for ones that could potentially make a profit. Mostly he is trying to get costs of productivity for each crop, so farmers can assess whether or not they are worth growing.
Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2018, 07:57:52 AM »
Superb info - productivity figures combined with spacing figures, and lots of other excellent information to link in!
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Si Duong

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 02:37:32 AM »
Waxy,

How old is your Jabos and are they in ground or in pot? I am located in Hayward and I would like to grow Jabo Sabara and Red. I hope it will survive.



I have several jabos, Sabara and Hybrid are fruiting year round.
The Red Hybrid is a very prolific producer at an early age.
I was able to get fruits every month up until winter.

I would have to say Sabara increases production every year as it ages.
The Hybrid seems to have a consistent amount once it starts producing, haven't seen any major increase in harvest.

Long term I'd have to say they're both equal in accordance to the size and age of the tree.
Due to the fact that the sabara's harvest increases to catch up with the hybrid production.
My zone gets really cold, below 30's so I'm sure if it's in a warmer climate it'll produce better.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 08:51:53 AM »
Si,
There are big fruiting tree's at Quarry lakes in Fremont and in San Jose.
The main requirement is patience and/or cash to buy a 15 + gallon size ( and a truck to get it home from So Cal)
I have extra 2 and 3 gallon sizes of both.

greg794855

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 04:07:20 PM »
Karen,

I am currently collecting data on Camu Camu. Once the fruit ripens and I can weigh some of it at various stages I can determine an estimated figure per tree for you.

Greg
I grow Camu Camu, it’s what I do.
Www.camucamufarms.com

Stevo

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2018, 08:41:56 PM »
Can't advise on jaboticaba but I can advise that my Bouea macrophylla  maprang variety "mayong chid" just had
a 30kg crop which consisted of 4 seperate flowering events and it will usually have 2 crops per year

pineislander

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2018, 06:08:02 PM »
On good position and very good maintenance in Costa Rica, the 40 year old trees in this recent video are yielding 80 kg and his target is 100 kg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQv3pHN2B30

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 12:58:43 PM »
In Brazil, I see yields greatest with Jabuticaba Sabará, given that they have about 4 crops a year and are very productive and precocious.  I found agreement with this in the literature as well: https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jaboticaba.html
and http://www.jabuticabeira.com.br/ though I can't find a quantitative yield per hectare.

At Argentina, Misiones, Sabara produce 2 times a year, not 4.

TSmith

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 01:19:31 PM »
In Brazil, I see yields greatest with Jabuticaba Sabará, given that they have about 4 crops a year and are very productive and precocious.  I found agreement with this in the literature as well: https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jaboticaba.html
and http://www.jabuticabeira.com.br/ though I can't find a quantitative yield per hectare.

At Argentina, Misiones, Sabara produce 2 times a year, not 4.

Thanks for the links and information! It is still useful as I am learning more about the Jaboticabas.  :) :)

Mike T

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Re: Plinia and Myrciaria yields - how well do jaboticabas produce?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2019, 04:53:04 PM »
Just take a big sabara tree's yield and multiply by 500. 20t/h seems plausible considering fruiting up to 5x a year. Scarlets and red hybrids are frequent fruiters that are very productive also and are smaller trees with short juvenile periods.Not many if any others would probably be as productive. It is difficult to imagine how useful such rubbery figures will be.