Author Topic: Rare jaboticaba dying .....  (Read 6449 times)

luc

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Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« on: June 07, 2016, 08:21:38 PM »
I really don't know what to do , this is a rare variety ( ssp ) of the aureana , has been doing great for so many years . Surrounded by 5 other varieties in the same part of the garden , all doing great , just this one is now loosing it's leaves and I don't have a good feeling about it .....I've been thinking of digging it out , look at the roots and maybe replanted in a large pot . I do some times over-water but I don't think this will affect a Jaboticaba ....
So far I have never lost a Jab. and I do have quite a few ...actually I can say they are tough and hard to kill ...
Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

Don

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 09:11:06 PM »
Not good. Maybe try and get a few scions as a insurance. Just incase I doesn't handle the transplant. Might just get lucky if the worst happens. Any photos of it Luc?

Guanabanus

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 09:16:22 PM »
Perhaps it is time to do a root drench with Alliette or Flanker;  or do a drench with a Phosphite product.
Har

Raulglezruiz

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 10:44:10 PM »
Maybe is some bug eating the roots I almost lost my Durio Graveolens that way, the leaves look horrible for 6months then start to drop and any new growth  at all, as went to the ago store in Pitillal and they sold me a blue powder to put in the ground and then water, after I did it  theplanr immediately started to flush new growth all over and now is very nice, the name is "Gamo"  Imidacloprid they told me is systematic which means the  plant absorb it, and any bug eating any part of the plant from top to rots will die....
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FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 11:18:12 PM »
i have been worried about killing my large plinia aureanas with too much water..sometimes they sit for over a week, in their personal kiddie pools...with the pots standing in 6 inch of water.

I had one tree that looked very unusual...not sure if it was a mutant, or a genetic throwback...but it was a red seedling that looked like a white...and i kept it saturated all the time...

one day the leaves all started to look like they were drying up and wilting...but they were still green...i'm not sure if it was because i gave the tree too much fert? and it was too wet?  or if it was just because it was too wet?  or maybe some rare pathogen...

the tree looks like it could rebound...i pruned it heavily, and changed the soil...and put it underneath an oak tree to rehabilitate.
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Mark in Texas

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2016, 08:08:15 AM »
I really don't know what to do , this is a rare variety ( ssp ) of the aureana , has been doing great for so many years . Surrounded by 5 other varieties in the same part of the garden , all doing great , just this one is now loosing it's leaves and I don't have a good feeling about it .....I've been thinking of digging it out , look at the roots and maybe replanted in a large pot . I do some times over-water but I don't think this will affect a Jaboticaba ....
So far I have never lost a Jab. and I do have quite a few ...actually I can say they are tough and hard to kill ...

Here's what I'd do, FWIW:

1. Inspect the root system.  Insect or disease pressure aside, if the top looks bad it's usually because something's wrong with the bottom,

2. Take scions and store with a slightly dampened paper towel in a baggie in the fridge,

3. If you have affirmed some kind of disease send off a sample to here. I just did.  http://plantpath.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/plant-diagnostic-center/  These folks seem to know what they're doing.

4. If there is a bacteria or fungi problem, get hold of some MagnaBon or Phyton35.

5. Pray

luc

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2016, 11:19:16 AM »
Thank you all . I will graft a scion on a small 50 cm Sabara ( split graft OK ??? ) , Get some of the products suggested and drench the plant . Wait a week and if no reaction dig out the plant and replant in a big pot .
Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

Don

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
Sounds like you have all bases covered there buddy.

EvilFruit

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2016, 12:24:18 PM »
Thank you all . I will graft a scion on a small 50 cm Sabara ( split graft OK ??? ) , Get some of the products suggested and drench the plant . Wait a week and if no reaction dig out the plant and replant in a big pot .

No expert,But ...... :-[

You might have better luck with grafting it on red Jaboticaba because it got M.aureana genes.

Good luck
Moh'd

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2016, 02:41:06 PM »
Thank you all . I will graft a scion on a small 50 cm Sabara ( split graft OK ??? ) , Get some of the products suggested and drench the plant . Wait a week and if no reaction dig out the plant and replant in a big pot .

I had 3 of my prized avocados drop all fruit and then go leafless for about 2 months.  After treating with those copper sulfate pentahydrate products I mentioned they have risen from the dead. "We" speculate its some kind of canker (fungus), black streak.  Phyton35 has been used in Mexico for decades according to a rep.  It's just been recently introduced to the states.

Good luck!

ScottR

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2016, 10:49:41 AM »
That sucks Luc, hope you can revive your tree! i have a couple multi-grafted macadamia trees that seem to be dieing and can't figure out why (our 5-year drought or?), keep us posted on fate of rare Jabo! :(

arvind

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 07:15:48 AM »
Same thing happened to my red jabo plant.Now it is 24cm tall.The leaves looks sick and drop.Then it will rebound again for a while and then the same thing happened again and again.No problem with soil acidity since my soil is acidic.Also watering is not an issue since it rain and rain almost every afternoon with nearly 4000mm.The plant only receive morning sun for couple of hours.Thinking about removing this plant and get another jabo species.Would love to seek advice from you guys and wondering if this is a great idea or not? I spend every morning and evening checking on it like crazy

gnappi

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 11:02:15 AM »
Hmmm... my nearly 6'' tall red jabo (in ground an open bottom stone pot 2 1/2 years) is in semi shade, and only gets full sun for about 6 hours a day and so far I haven't seen any decline. I'm going to keep an eye on it. I wonder what has happened to Luc's?
Regards,

   Gary

luc

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 12:20:04 PM »
Well , I bought the " Gamo " that Raul suggested . A big soup spoon in 5 liters of water , the plant is back to normal and doing better than before . Pleased with this great result I did the same thing on a vexator that was staying behind compared to the other one . It made a huge difference , this one is also thriving now . All that in a very short time ....2 weeks maximum . I am gonna poor some of this stuff on all my plants that are not doing 100 %.
Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

gnappi

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 12:50:13 PM »
Thanks for the update Luc. for those in the U.S, Imidacloprid is marketed under the "Bayer Advanced" name. I have yet to need it but I keep it in my shed.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:17:00 PM by gnappi »
Regards,

   Gary

meristos

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 01:13:03 PM »
Luc, for sure this is an efficient product. But be careful as this product kills many beneficial insects. Thanks to the last studies they show that plants treated with imidacloprid remain toxic during many years for bees. As it is a systemic product a root drench will also "contaminate" flowers. Imidacloprid-positive flowers attract bees more than untreated one and kill them. We hope that this product will be banned in France in the next months.

Well , I bought the " Gamo " that Raul suggested . A big soup spoon in 5 liters of water , the plant is back to normal and doing better than before . Pleased with this great result I did the same thing on a vexator that was staying behind compared to the other one . It made a huge difference , this one is also thriving now . All that in a very short time ....2 weeks maximum . I am gonna poor some of this stuff on all my plants that are not doing 100 %.

achetadomestica

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 01:43:30 PM »
Luc, for sure this is an efficient product. But be careful as this product kills many beneficial insects. Thanks to the last studies they show that plants treated with imidacloprid remain toxic during many years for bees. As it is a systemic product a root drench will also "contaminate" flowers. Imidacloprid-positive flowers attract bees more than untreated one and kill them. We hope that this product will be banned in France in the next months.


BULLSHIT!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 01:48:41 PM by achetadomestica »


achetadomestica

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 02:29:29 PM »
 plants treated with imidacloprid remain toxic during many years for bees
If this was true all the bees would be dead

 Imidacloprid-positive flowers attract bees more than untreated one and kill them
This is just stupid. Have you been in Florida when the oranges are in bloom?
 

gnappi

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 04:22:14 PM »
plants treated with imidacloprid remain toxic during many years for bees
If this was true all the bees would be dead

 Imidacloprid-positive flowers attract bees more than untreated one and kill them
This is just stupid. Have you been in Florida when the oranges are in bloom?

I take it that orangemen use imidacloprid regularly?

It's like the alar scare of the 80's on apples in New York. I knew apple orchard owners that just about bathed in the stuff and never had adverse reactions.
Regards,

   Gary

meristos

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 05:33:13 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid
plants treated with imidacloprid remain toxic during many years for bees
If this was true all the bees would be dead

 Imidacloprid-positive flowers attract bees more than untreated one and kill them
This is just stupid. Have you been in Florida when the oranges are in bloom?

achetadomestica

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2017, 07:38:12 PM »
Excuse me if Wikipedia said its true then it has to be true.
I don't see anywhere in that passage that says it is toxic to bees for multiple years after an application? I do see where it
says it takes 30-60 days to move through the tree. And where does it say it is more attractive
to bees then regular untreated flowers from citrus??? The forum members who are using this product
are applying it to trees that are in decline not trees that are flowering anyway?

meristos

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2017, 08:25:13 PM »
Two studies published in Nature last year cited evidence that overuse of neonicotinoid pesticides was harming bee populations. One of the studies found that bees were drawn to neonicotinoids, which are derived from nicotine, possibly similarly to how humans are attracted to nicotine. This means that bees may prefer a food source that harms their nervous system. from https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/12/bayer-revises-position-extra-protections-for-bees-from-pesticides

Can't find the article talking about long range remanence of this product but this article explain that toxicity for bees remain for at least 1 year. https://pro.anses.fr/euroreference/Documents/ER11-METHODES-ResidusEN.pdf

So as I was answering to Luc, efficient product but not very Earth friendly...

Excuse me if Wikipedia said its true then it has to be true.
I don't see anywhere in that passage that says it is toxic to bees for multiple years after an application? I do see where it
says it takes 30-60 days to move through the tree. And where does it say it is more attractive
to bees then regular untreated flowers from citrus??? The forum members who are using this product
are applying it to trees that are in decline not trees that are flowering anyway?

achetadomestica

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Re: Rare jaboticaba dying .....
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 03:34:10 PM »
Two studies published in Nature last year cited evidence that overuse of neonicotinoid pesticides was harming bee populations. One of the studies found that bees were drawn to neonicotinoids, which are derived from nicotine, possibly similarly to how humans are attracted to nicotine. This means that bees may prefer a food source that harms their nervous system. from https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/12/bayer-revises-position-extra-protections-for-bees-from-pesticides

Can't find the article talking about long range remanence of this product but this article explain that toxicity for bees remain for at least 1 year. https://pro.anses.fr/euroreference/Documents/ER11-METHODES-ResidusEN.pdf

So as I was answering to Luc, efficient product but not very Earth friendly...

Excuse me if Wikipedia said its true then it has to be true.
I don't see anywhere in that passage that says it is toxic to bees for multiple years after an application? I do see where it
says it takes 30-60 days to move through the tree. And where does it say it is more attractive
to bees then regular untreated flowers from citrus??? The forum members who are using this product
are applying it to trees that are in decline not trees that are flowering anyway?
Now humans are attracted to nicotine? Where did you read this?
When I go into a store my kids always head to the tobacco aisle, no they actually head to the legos.
Do legos have nicotine in them?
You continue to distort and embellish the facts, ok you are biased against this pesticide but why do you keep
distorting the facts. You also say you can't remember where you read it but the effects can last up to a year.
Up to a year is not Many years as you originally claimed or 30-60 days as the passage claims. You might as
well claim it last for decades. When the oranges are in full bloom How are bees more attracted to an odorless drug?

Don't believe everything you read