Japanese inspired ultra low espalier mango experiment

[simon_grow]

Simon - You are undertaking a fascinating project which looks to be doing very well. Congratulations.
A mundane question that may be relevant to others too is whether your trees may become a violation of building ordinances. The 4' side yard is mandated as a fire break and a tree may be considered a fire hazard. It probably won't be a problem unless you have a grumpy neighbor who complains but it's just a heads-up in case you want to check. I had trees on the south side of my house and Santa Monica (an arbor day tree city) demanded that I cut them down after they changed city ordinances to limit "fences" in front of houses to 4'. Apparently an anonymous neighbor complained. I managed to save them by appealing directly to the city council but the whole process was time consuming and expensive.

Hello BajaJohn, that’s a good point. My neighborhood is not governed by HOA and many homes in the area have trees surrounding their homes. The fire codes are their for a reason and my side yard has enough room for me to knock out the windows and their is enough clearance next to the fence to make a get away.

My upcoming plans are to create more of these trees in half barrels so that they are more easily transported. Being able to transport them will allow me to lend it out to the local California Rare Fruit Growers Association to garner more interest in growing rare fruit.

Simon

[artfusionfab]

I have a Malika Espalier against my house.

[simon_grow]

That’s awesome, I would love to see a picture if you have time to post it here.

Simon

[artfusionfab]

I will when i get a chance.

[FruitFreak]

I have a Malika Espalier against my house.

How old is the tree?

[artfusionfab]

4 years 3 in the ground.

[Mark in Texas]

I believe that tree is 25 years old! Truly inspiring. They do extensive root pruning on their rootstock before and after getting into the ground. Think bonsai. Once it is in the ground the roots are contained in a metal trough. The root zone is primarily made up of secondary feeder roots.

I noticed that.  Am confused about the botany, the relationship behind root pruning and production. Don't they also hit their trees with a PGR aka Bonzi at bloom time?  Speaking of secondary feeder roots, I have a network of fine feed roots on top of the soil and underneath the mulch.  Got that forest thang going on!

[simon_grow]

I believe that tree is 25 years old! Truly inspiring. They do extensive root pruning on their rootstock before and after getting into the ground. Think bonsai. Once it is in the ground the roots are contained in a metal trough. The root zone is primarily made up of secondary feeder roots.

I noticed that.  Am confused about the botany, the relationship behind root pruning and production. Don't they also hit their trees with a PGR aka Bonzi at bloom time?  Speaking of secondary feeder roots, I have a network of fine feed roots on top of the soil and underneath the mulch.  Got that forest thang going on!

Damn those are healthy dense roots! I’m just starting my experiments with rooting hormones for my non fruiting trees. The density of your roots tells me how healthy your tree is. Awesome!

Simon

[Mark in Texas]

I believe that tree is 25 years old! Truly inspiring. They do extensive root pruning on their rootstock before and after getting into the ground. Think bonsai. Once it is in the ground the roots are contained in a metal trough. The root zone is primarily made up of secondary feeder roots.

I noticed that.  Am confused about the botany, the relationship behind root pruning and production. Don't they also hit their trees with a PGR aka Bonzi at bloom time?  Speaking of secondary feeder roots, I have a network of fine feed roots on top of the soil and underneath the mulch.  Got that forest thang going on!

Damn those are healthy dense roots! I’m just starting my experiments with rooting hormones for my non fruiting trees. The density of your roots tells me how healthy your tree is. Awesome!

Simon

Yep, proud of dem puppies.   BTW the only thing I use on my trees is a slow release 18-4-9 which I've mentioned and a mulch of pine needles and avocado leaves.

Being you're one our amateur botanists always on the cutting edge, what are you doing with rooting hormones Simon?   What are you looking for?  Using synthetic auxins like the naptha. stuff?

[simon_grow]

Hey Mark, I’m just trying to play with the big dogs and continuing to push the boundaries. I’ve already had success using the MicroKote and air pruning type pots but if I can get a denser, more wide spread system of roots in a shorter amount of time, why not go for it.

I’ve already purchased a product which I believe uses IBA but from my Botany class, there are many different PGRs I can use. Different species react differently to PGRs so the concentration and ratio of hormones will be important. I don’t want to spend resources figuring out what PGR and what ratio works best for Mango so I picked up something from off the shelves. I’ll take a picture of the product later when I get home. If you have a product you recommend, I would love the info.

I’m able to get a newly planted seedlings to become bushy and about 4 feet tall without the use of hormones and I’m hoping that the hormones will just speed things up even more. I will not be using hormones on producing trees however. My goal is to fill a large pot, say around 45-55 gallons as fast as possible using any technique available.

Simon

[artfusionfab]

That’s awesome, I would love to see a picture if you have time to post it here.

Simon

[simon_grow]

Thanks for the picture, yesterday ur tree is beautiful! Has your tree produced any fruit yet?

Simon

[simon_grow]

Here is a picture of the root stimulator I purchased.

Simon

[spaugh]

I went trough a few bottles of that stuff this year on some bare root plants and plumerias.  Works decent.  It has the same ingredient as powder root hormones.  You can mix that powder to make the same type of thing and just water with a little.  And then use the fertilizer you prefer seperate.

[simon_grow]

Thanks for the advice Spaugh, I picked up this product on a whim. Hopefully I can find something stronger that can significantly increase root mass.

Simon

[Mark in Texas]

I went trough a few bottles of that stuff this year on some bare root plants and plumerias.  Works decent.  It has the same ingredient as powder root hormones.  You can mix that powder to make the same type of thing and just water with a little.  And then use the fertilizer you prefer seperate.

Studies suggest that too much of these synthetic auxins will work against you, that they inhibit root cell division/elongation and can produce undesirable top growth.  When it comes to messing with Mama's (nature) hormones, I'm a minimalist.  Check these out. 
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=auxins+root+growth&oq=root+auxins&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i22i30k1l2.69966554.69973664.0.69977948.17.16.0.0.0.0.761.2232.6-3.3.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..14.3.2232...0j0i131k1.0.y7ibmZikShU

In horticulture, auxins, especially NAA and IBA, are commonly applied to stimulate root initiation when rooting cuttings of plants. However, high concentrations of auxin inhibit root elongation and instead enhance adventitious root formation. Removal of the root tip can lead to inhibition of secondary root formation.

Simon, I've played with root tip pruning systems for decades.  The most fool proof, the most reliable one is painting the inside of the pot with a copper hydroxide laden latex paint.  My Rootbuilder pots are doing what they are designed to do too.

[artfusionfab]

Here is a picture of the root stimulator I purchased.

Simon

Thank you , no fruit yet.The center needs to be thinned out to make it more defined but i'm holding off pruning till  I see if it fruits this year. do you notice the two lowest branches seem to be stunted and the two above it are taking over. I'm thinking of top working those vigorous two branches to other varieties to see if that will give the lower branches a boost ,It had a center leader at one time and when i cut it out the two vigorous ones that you see took off, maybe to much.

[spaugh]

I went trough a few bottles of that stuff this year on some bare root plants and plumerias.  Works decent.  It has the same ingredient as powder root hormones.  You can mix that powder to make the same type of thing and just water with a little.  And then use the fertilizer you prefer seperate.

Studies suggest that too much of these synthetic auxins will work against you, that they inhibit root cell division/elongation and can produce undesirable top growth.  When it comes to messing with Mama's (nature) hormones, I'm a minimalist.  Check these out. 
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=auxins+root+growth&oq=root+auxins&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i22i30k1l2.69966554.69973664.0.69977948.17.16.0.0.0.0.761.2232.6-3.3.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..14.3.2232...0j0i131k1.0.y7ibmZikShU

In horticulture, auxins, especially NAA and IBA, are commonly applied to stimulate root initiation when rooting cuttings of plants. However, high concentrations of auxin inhibit root elongation and instead enhance adventitious root formation. Removal of the root tip can lead to inhibition of secondary root formation.

Simon, I've played with root tip pruning systems for decades.  The most fool proof, the most reliable one is painting the inside of the pot with a copper hydroxide laden latex paint.  My Rootbuilder pots are doing what they are designed to do too.

I just give the plants one dose when planting.  Ive compared plumerias with and without and there is a big difference in root size, whiteness, and root vigor when the plants get a dose of this stuff.  I wouldnt bother with it on trees with established root systems.  For cuttings or bare rooted trees its worth a shot.

[Mark in Texas]

Thank you , no fruit yet.The center needs to be thinned out to make it more defined but i'm holding off pruning till  I see if it fruits this year. do you notice the two lowest branches seem to be stunted and the two above it are taking over. I'm thinking of top working those vigorous two branches to other varieties to see if that will give the lower branches a boost ,It had a center leader at one time and when i cut it out the two vigorous ones that you see took off, maybe to much.

Espalier is nice!

I don't really care for the taste of Mallika. Makes a nice compact tree but the fruit tastes like a pasty carrot to us.  So, I cut it back to a stub and recently grafted 7 scions, all took - Cotton Candy, Fruit Punch, Pineapple Pleasure and Juicy Peach.  Unlike Mallika they are a bit leggie with long internodes but look fantastic with stocky branches and big leaves.

[artfusionfab]

I have tasted Mallika when it was excellent and when it tasted like a carrot but its not my favorite either that's why I'm thinking of top working the two vigorous branches about twelve inches after the 90 degree bend maybe with some of the variety's you mentioned

[simon_grow]

I went trough a few bottles of that stuff this year on some bare root plants and plumerias.  Works decent.  It has the same ingredient as powder root hormones.  You can mix that powder to make the same type of thing and just water with a little.  And then use the fertilizer you prefer seperate.

Studies suggest that too much of these synthetic auxins will work against you, that they inhibit root cell division/elongation and can produce undesirable top growth.  When it comes to messing with Mama's (nature) hormones, I'm a minimalist.  Check these out. 
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=auxins+root+growth&oq=root+auxins&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i22i30k1l2.69966554.69973664.0.69977948.17.16.0.0.0.0.761.2232.6-3.3.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..14.3.2232...0j0i131k1.0.y7ibmZikShU

In horticulture, auxins, especially NAA and IBA, are commonly applied to stimulate root initiation when rooting cuttings of plants. However, high concentrations of auxin inhibit root elongation and instead enhance adventitious root formation. Removal of the root tip can lead to inhibition of secondary root formation.

Simon, I've played with root tip pruning systems for decades.  The most fool proof, the most reliable one is painting the inside of the pot with a copper hydroxide laden latex paint.  My Rootbuilder pots are doing what they are designed to do too.

Hey Mark, I got most of my Copper Hydroxide and rootbuilder info from you and it’s worked great for me. I used to work in the field of research where I used a lot of different chemicals and hormones but I followed pre written protocols that gave specific concentrations for the target species that we were trying to promote root, shoot or both.

It’s amazing what can be done. Some plants are super easy to work with and you can make a leaf cut out grow into a full plant with roots and branches.

Some things that I’ve learned is that pot size is extremely important for a good head start for Mango trees and other trees as well. If you don’t up pot at the proper time, you can severely stunt a tree. At the same time, you don’t want to just plop a small seedling into the largest pot you can find. By planting seeds at the proper time of year and gradually stepping up the size of the pot and fertilizing properly, there is an additive effect I can compound with the multiple rootstock technique and greatly accelerate growth in my marginal climate.

Simon

[Mark in Texas]

Simon your knowledge base is broad, passion is intense.  it's fun experimenting.

Regarding pot size, all of my small newly grafted tropical trees have been upcanned into their permanent huge bottomless pots without any stepping up.  I guess they're anywhere from 30 - 50 gals.  Never had any root rot.  Potting mix is anything I have in bulk in the field or bagged - perlite, vermiculite, pine bark, cypress bark, peat....whatever.  it drains very fast.   

For example, veneer graft of a Reed stick onto a Florida pit, a seedling:
 

[shinzo]

 By planting seeds at the proper time of year and gradually stepping up the size of the pot and fertilizing properly, there is an additive effect I can compound with the multiple rootstock technique and greatly accelerate growth in my marginal climate.

Simon

Hey Simon, when is the most appropriate time in the year to up pot a seedling (i am speaking about soursop), now in the fall when it is going to go dormant or in the beginning of spring ?

[Mark in Texas]

Hey Simon, when is the most appropriate time in the year to up pot a seedling (i am speaking about soursop), now in the fall when it is going to go dormant or in the beginning of spring ?

According to an expert source on avocado anatomical characteristics avocados have 2 major root flushes.  For the N. Hemisphere that would be a peak in early April and again in late August.  I would think the same effect would apply to the growing cycle of soursop.  I'd upcan now.   

No matter what the plant material I like to upcan when its cool and preferably when the tree is dormant.  For deciduous trees best time would be fall.  The more established that tree is before the summer heat hits.... the better. 

[simon_grow]

 By planting seeds at the proper time of year and gradually stepping up the size of the pot and fertilizing properly, there is an additive effect I can compound with the multiple rootstock technique and greatly accelerate growth in my marginal climate.

Simon

Hey Simon, when is the most appropriate time in the year to up pot a seedling (i am speaking about soursop), now in the fall when it is going to go dormant or in the beginning of spring ?

Sorry Shinzo, I know next to nothing about Soursop.

Simon