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Messages - Florian

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: June 23, 2017, 11:43:28 AM »
Quick update, my Citsuma has decided to flower for the first time and I am quite happy.
Ilya, what time of year does yours usually flower? I assume mine is so late because it is the first time?

cheers

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Taichang lemon
« on: June 09, 2017, 08:48:15 AM »
I received the seeds from the US..

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Taichang lemon
« on: June 09, 2017, 12:39:04 AM »
Well, that isn't quite what I hoped for but at least I don't have any false expectations now. Thanks a lot!
What you say about the fruit size and seeds makes perfectly sense.

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Prison Cold Hardy Citrus Grove
« on: June 09, 2017, 12:36:59 AM »
Too bad those are only available in the US!

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Taichang lemon
« on: June 08, 2017, 04:03:06 AM »
I was given some seeds of this interesting hybrid and three germinated. I'd like to know how they do with members here since there is not much information to be found on the internet. Apparently, they taste good enough and have some cold tolerance (which isn't surprising considering the parents). Pictures are most welcome.
Thanks!

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: May 30, 2017, 02:07:42 AM »
I regard C. ichangensis or N1Tri as the most promising parents other than Poncirus because neither Yuzu nor Ichang lemon come even close in terms of coldhardiness (there are, admittedly, wimps among C. ichangensis as well but I have not seen any Yuzu survive anything lower than -15C).
I'm going to have to disagree with your logic (at least partially). True, Yuzu is not as hardy as Poncirus or C. ichangensis, but it still holds the cold hardy genes from its papeda ancestor. The fact that Yuzu is not as hardy is irreverent. Yuzu is not an original species, it is a hybrid. Sure you could breed Poncirus with, say an orange, but you'd probably have to make another cross to get something very edible. That's not the case with Yuzu, since Yuzu is much further on the spectrum towards edibility than Poncirus. What I'm saying is it might take 1 or 2 generations of hybridizations with Yuzu to get something very edible, whereas with Poncirus it might take 2 or 3. And by that time the cold hardiness might be diluted down to the same level as a Yuzu hybrid.

How do I explain this? To some extent, when it comes to hybrids there's a trade-off between cold hardiness and edibility. Yuzu might not really be edible itself, but it's infinitely more edible than Poncirus. Since you already have this degree of suitability for eating built in, you're not really necessarily losing anything by starting off with Yuzu. Think of it this way, you've already done the first cross in your breeding sequence, you decided to cross an extremely cold hardy papeda species with sour mandarin, and what you got was something called Yuzu. Now you're going to make the next cross.

If you think you're going to be able to cross Poncirus with some other citrus in just one cross to get something amazing you're delusional.
(You might have better luck with C. ichangensis but I still wouldn't be too optimistic)
It's going to take successive series of breeding, at least 2 generations of crosses, maybe 3.

Now of course there are a number arguments and points that can be made to the contrary, but I'm just conveying my line of reasoning here.

I didn't mean to imply that F1 crosses with Poncirus could suddenly turn out edible, you are certainly right. Nonetheless, anything less hardy than Yuzu is going to be too weak for my climate.

Crosses with N1Tri could be the way to go here since the off-flavours are eliminated. However, from what I've read its offspring is mostly feeble and weak, seeds only germinate very erratically.

But this topic was about precocious Poncirus.. When my seedlings flower I will try to cross them with everything I have and who knows what happens then.. N1Tri x Pt = ultra hardy and still no poncirine / bitterness..? 
And yes, I know, this is just wild thinking.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: May 26, 2017, 08:58:43 AM »
I have seven precocious Poncirus seedlings here and if they really do flower after only a few years I will try to cross them with other citrus, too. If the early flowering could be transferred to the offspring, this would save us many years.

No one really knows what happens after the F1, so hybrids with Yuzu or other parents may indeed result in hardier offspring somehow, somewhere down the road.. but for now, I regard C. ichangensis or N1Tri as the most promising parents other than Poncirus because neither Yuzu nor Ichang lemon come even close in terms of coldhardiness (there are, admittedly, wimps among C. ichangensis as well but I have not seen any Yuzu survive anything lower than -15C).

8
Interesting results, thanks for sharing.

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 26, 2017, 04:15:06 AM »
This topic is turning out to be so great, thank you all for your contributions.
Sylvain, your plant has a nice, tall trunk. Did it form that all by itself or did you prune it that way? I am asking because you say it will grow upwards over time anyway but at the moment I doubt a bit that mine would form such a nice trunk..

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 21, 2017, 05:09:35 AM »
Sylvain, would you have a picture of your plant and fruit?

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 18, 2017, 02:33:07 AM »
Well, Ilya said that the homogenous dna makes it rather unlikely to be a chimera but I am no expert.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 17, 2017, 06:25:21 AM »
Thank you so much for the information, Ilya. My plant is a strong grower but I would still like to graft it onto a taller poncirus because I like tree forms better. I will let it grow until it flowers and try to graft it then. I need more time anyway because my poncirus rootstocks are still very small since I have to grown them from seed.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Citsuma Prague
« on: April 15, 2017, 07:43:56 PM »
I'd like to share a picture of my Citsuma Prague which is the most bizarre citrus I have.
It has grown pretty well but it seems it wants to grow in all directions but upwards. If I let it grow it would be much wider than tall.
I know Ilya has one, too. I'd love to see some pictures.



14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The best tasting orange for coolder climate?
« on: April 11, 2017, 03:07:18 AM »
Oh, it will. It has started to grow new leaves even where there are no leaves and where it looks half-dead. I reckon about 1/4 to 1/3 of the branches are really dead.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The best tasting orange for coolder climate?
« on: April 10, 2017, 01:43:39 PM »
Ilya, my fruit wasn't quite ripe by the end of the year but I think the first fruit isn't representative. Also, the spot where it is planted could be a bit sunnier but I am quite short of space actually. Apparently, they ripen in December in Ticino.

I am sure you know this post: http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=443&hilit=+ichangensis+x+sinensis






The fruit weighed 108g and measured about 5-6cm. So, not very large but I think as the tree grows larger so might the fruit.


And here a picture from March 2017


cheers

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The best tasting orange for coolder climate?
« on: April 09, 2017, 05:05:30 PM »
A bit late but my Citrus ichangensis x sinensis is quite promising. It took -8C several times with no damage last winter (15/16). This winter freezes lasted much longer and the mean temperature in January was only -3C with lows of around -10 C. The little tree (about 50-60cm) lost 3/4 of its leaves and some younger twigs. I am very surprised it is still alive. It seems that not the absolute low but the very long freezes were what got it. I think its hardiness could be similar to yuzu, perhaps a bit less.

I have only had one fruit which wasn't the full size but the taste was quite good. No off flavours, juicy and sweet just like an orange. It had no seeds but I know they can have a few.

The only drawback would perhaps be availability for non-europeans. Still, I wanted to share my experiences.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: April 06, 2017, 03:54:30 AM »
Yes they are but so is the Ichangquat. Unless they took the budwood from a juvenile plant.. I've just bought them all toghether.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: April 05, 2017, 07:52:12 AM »
Thanks a lot, I knew that many citrus are thorny when young. But the other plants which I ordered (Juanita, Citrumelo Nr. 82 and Citrandarin Nr. 174) are of the same age and almost thornless. So, my real question is actually whether the Ichangquat will be full of thorns when adult, too.

19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: April 04, 2017, 11:25:53 AM »
Ilya (or anybode else) does your ichangquat have any spines/thorns? My ichangquat has lots of them, the largest measuring 5cm (almost 2 inches). Quite a dangerous thing if this trait persists into adulthood.


20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Juanita tangerine
« on: March 28, 2017, 11:36:46 AM »
Sorry to dig this post up but could anyone tell me when Juanitas ripen? Any chance they ripen before the end of the year in cooler climates?

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: March 24, 2017, 11:11:58 AM »
I know that one, they do not ship to Switzerland, unfortunately.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: March 24, 2017, 03:14:23 AM »
I bought it from Eisenhut, Ilya, I don't have many other options:-). I believe it has not flowered there.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Ichangquat other than 6-7-2
« on: March 23, 2017, 01:20:32 PM »
I have just bought an Ichangquat and I was told it is a sister hybrid of the 6-7-2 and that it came from the US but I couldn't get any more information (ie. on hardiness or taste). So, I'd appreciate any additional information there might be.

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papeda search.
« on: March 20, 2017, 11:50:38 AM »
Thanks for the warm welcome. It would be a pity if your customs didn't allow to send citrus seeds (since I understand they can't carry viruses, can they?). We shall see.. :)
We do indeed have some interesting citrus varieties here but so do you. For example I have never seen a Clemyuz 2-2 for sale here (let alone a dekopon). Also, the Japanese have some good stuff which nobody seems to be able to get their hands on like the seedless Yuzus or the real Yuko..

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang Papeda search.
« on: March 19, 2017, 06:42:01 PM »
Hi everyone
I am new to this forum. I have an ichangensis IVIA and Ilya is right when he says the fruit is quite edible (that is compared to other ichangensis cultivars or Poncirus). My plant is still small and the fruit might become bigger as the tree grows larger. There was not much pulp in the fruits I have harvested so far but there is , in contrast to other ichangensis cultivars. The juice is usable just like lemon juice. Another plus is the fact that they ripen even in our cool summers.
I know reports from Germany of trees surviving down to -18C but I don't know about the IVIA. I haven't tested mine yet since I want to let it grow a bit larger first.





If in the future it should contain more seeds, I will be happy to share them.
cheers

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