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Messages - simon_grow

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I'm glad your watering according to weather and not on a strict schedule as it can be wasteful and detrimental to your trees. Hopefully the issue will resolve itself once your tree has fully matured.


Your soil does look moist and worms are usually a good sign. The reason why it looked like water stress to me is because the older leaves were all pointed down and curled up a bit. When new growth occurs or there are changes in conditions, it can stress your plants into dropping fruit. Your trees are still young and they actually look very healthy.

If you are watering about every other day, you may not be allowing the soil to dry out enough and your trees can get root rot. Looks like you are on a slope how ever so you may be safe.

When younger trees start blooming, they often coincide with a large leaf drop which may explain the downward pointing leaves. Your trees really do look pretty good, I hope you like Avocado smoothies and guacamole:) you'll be burried in Avocados in no time.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting various fruit trees
« on: Today at 04:46:59 PM »
the trick with loquat is to collect scions and graft when the tree is not flowering. Immediately after fruit harvest is a good time to collect scions and graft.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: Today at 03:49:01 PM »
That sounds really promising, please save me one or two scions when your tree is large enough:)


Agreed, looks like water stress. It takes about a year for Hass to be ripe and the season is generally about April-Oct depending on where you live and how large your tree is. It seems the lack of water may have caused them to fall off prematurely. Perhaps Carlos can chime in.


The blooms come after it loses its leaves so the other plant may flower as well if you strip its leaves or wait for them to naturally fall off. I would not allow a small plant to hold fruit as the quality will definitely be sub par. Wait until the plant is large enough and has lots of leaves to ensure the quality will be better.


How long has the fruit been holding on the tree? If they stay on the tree too long, they can become hard and rubbery or woody. Are you experiencing a new flush? A picture of your tree and fruit may be helpful in a diagnosis.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting various fruit trees
« on: Today at 08:22:16 AM »
I generally graft according to the condition of my rootstocks and scions. I like to graft when the rootstocks are showing signs that they are about to push or when they have already begun pushing new growth. Prepping scions by removing leaves and waiting for the petiole scars to swell will ensure your scions are in top shape. If the apical bud is already swolllen, there is no need to prep the scion.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seed grown Longan blooming!
« on: March 21, 2017, 10:36:50 PM »
I hope you get some fruit this year! Please keep us updated.


Oh man I really need to contact my buddy at the Kesar farm,  I really loved those mangoes.

Please tell your friend that we are still waiting for the Jumbo Kesars here in the USA. I was hoping they would show up in the supermarkets around here last year. I hope the plantation is still doing well.


When I get a box of Cherimoyas, I hasten the ripening of a few fruit so that their ripening time is spread out. I use a box filled with shredded paper and put the Moyas in so that they are not touching, top with shredded paper and close the box and place in a warm location, about 85-90F. Make sure to keep them out of air conditioning as this will retard the ripening process. These fruit will ripen several days to a week earlier than the other fruit kept at room temperature but it depends on many other factors such as how ripe they were to begin with and how warm your ambient temperature is.

This is also how I try to get many different varieties of mangos to ripen at the same time for our annual Mango tastings.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: March 21, 2017, 05:46:25 PM »

It may be worth a try to break a leaf from each seedling and smelling the sap to see if it's citrusy. Do you happen to have a Lemon Zest? If you do, I wonder how different the Orange Sherbet seedlings leaves smell compared to the Lemon Zest?


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bugs on Mango's
« on: March 21, 2017, 05:40:21 PM »
Yup, looks like mealybugs to me. Your local garden center should have a type of orchard spray to kill these bugs. Just as the nurseryman for their advice on a mealybug spray. A type of orchard spray that has some Sulfur in it may slightly help with any sooty mold you get as a consequence of the mealybug exudates.


Hey Raulglezruiz,

The Jehengar is an excellent sweet mango that has a bit if that classic Indian resin taste but that Indian resin taste is much more prominent in Alphonso and Kesar. The flavor profile of Kesar is such that even a person not accustomed to that strong Indian resin flavor could still enjoy this fruit. In fact, I brought several Kesars to my work and everyone that sampled the fruit said it was one of the best mangos they have ever tasted and then they asked me where they can purchase some fruit.

The Jehengar was excellent and has an unusually almost white or beige flesh color with a uniquely delicious undertone that is very difficult to put into words. It's almost like a guava type of savory umami, slightly resembling that unique taste I get from the Ice Cream mango that Maurice Kong introduced. I would definitely add Kesar to my collection if I didn't already have it. Actually, if you can get it, Jumbo Kesar is supposed to taste the same as Kesar except it is much larger.


Once you have your tree planted, keep it watered but don't over do it. When a tree is first planted, it will need more frequent watering as the roots have not established yet but keep in mind that Mangos are regarded as drought tolerant and when the rootzone is kept constantly moist, there is little physiological need for the plant to send its roots out farther in search of more resources. I would hazard to guess that more rookie Mango growers have killed their mango trees from over watering rather than under watering. Over watering can decrease oxygen levels, promoting anaerobic conditions which can lead to root rot.

I want to re emphasize here that you should be planting seedlings that are not grafted. This means that you will either need to learn to graft or know someone that can do the grafting for you. This may seem like a lot of trouble to go through but if you want a healthy, large and productive tree, I highly recommend this route if you are looking for something other than Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few other varieties that seem to perform ok on Florida/Turpentine rootstock.

If you do plant a pre grafted Florida/Turpentine rootstock tree, you will get annual blooms which will significantly slow down the overall growth of your tree. I also want to point out that not all Turpentine rootstock are bad performers here in SoCal. Leo Manuel has planted Turpentine seeds and used them with success.


Kesar Mango

Jumbo Kesar

Behl, I have Kesar grafted onto my multigraft and it's currently flowering so maybe we will be able to taste it when grown in San Diego. I only Grafted a small branch so it may not even hold any fruit but I'll definitely bring it to the tasting table.


Behl, I'll definitely post here as soon as I see them in the markets. I'll also post pictures, Brix and a taste report as they roll in.

Here's a teaser from last year.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Spring Pruning
« on: March 20, 2017, 03:31:20 PM »
Your trees are always beautiful Frank, thanks for the reminder, I meet to prune my trees as well:)


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: March 20, 2017, 03:29:17 PM »
Here's a couple different Lemon Zest seedlings. The single seedling originally had another smaller sprout that died but this remaining sprout has the LZ sap smell when the leaves are damaged.

This picture is LZ with two remaining sprouts, one larger and one much smaller, both have the strong LZ sap smell.

Here's some Sweet Tart seedlings

Nam Doc Mai

The reason why they all look raggedy is because I planted the seeds and left them neglected for about 6 months. They were buried under weeds until I pulled them out last week.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: March 20, 2017, 02:58:45 PM »
Thanks for the report Behl! The lack of flowering is a great blessing in disguise. Every Lemon Zest, or any mature scion, has bloomed within the first winter unless it was kept warm in a greenhouse or in my case, the garage under lights. My Coconut Cream seedlings were all curly like a pretzel and died in Winter when I got frost.


Really enjoying your posts, Simon. You have truly immersed yourself in the mango world.

If the mangoes shipped from India are irradiated, does that mean that they are not given the heat treatment that negatively impacts mangoes shipped from Mexico and Central America?

I suspect that my area in Florida does not have Indian stores that sell such a range of mangoes, but I'm going to look around.

Thanks Mangomandan,

I believe it's either/or so if it's been irradiated, then it's not hot water treated but this is only my assumption. The Irradiation does not seem to affect the flavor at all, I can't really see how the flavor of last years Kesars can get any better. Delayed shipments definitely affect the quality of the fruit however. Sometimes a shipment will be delayed while it is waiting for inspection. This delay caused a shipment of Chaunsa and white Chaunsa to get over ripe last year or the year before.

Box turtle, the mid season Kesars were the best. The early ones were slightly less sweet and the last shipments of Kesars were a bit overripe.


Hey Gary, welcome back. Yes, I've had Bombay before, in fact, I sampled it at your place during one of the dessert mango tastings. I thought Bombay was really good but felt that Kesar was exceptional. I have a small graft of Kesar on my multigraft Manilla so I can bring you a scion next time I visit if you are interested.

I forgot to mention that the fruit/seeds from India are irradiated and they will not likely sprout, perhaps I was doing something wrong but I have 0 seedlings still alive from irradiated fruit. When irradiated seeds are soaked, they will swell a bit making it appear that they are growing but they eventually just stop. It could have been me so please let me know if anyone has any luck sprouting seeds that have been irradiated.

For my Indian Mango seedlings, I use seeds from locally grown Indian varieties like, Alphonso, Mallika, Bombay.

I have never tasted or even seen a Rasalu mango so I might try ordering a box this year. I'm so excited about this Mango season!!!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: March 20, 2017, 12:06:22 AM »
Anyone have updates on their Lemon Zest seedlings or any other Zill polyembryonic variety?

Our grafted trees here in SoCal have a horrible and energy wasting habit of flowering in its first Winter. By planting seedlings of Polyembryonic varieties, I hope to overcome this challenge while at the same time guarantee that I will have good tasting fruit that is similar, if not identical to the parent without having to graft(because of the flowering issue from mature scions).

I hope to completely bypass the issue of "which seedling is the clone, which is zygotic" by keeping at least two seedlings arising from a single seed. Assuming that there is only one zygote per fruit/seed, I should have a good chance of getting a true clone. Assumptions are usually the mother of all f ups and this is why I would like to gather more information from forum members regarding any additional information, observations or pictures you might have.

When planting Polyembryonic seedlings, one must be aware that multiple sprouts can arise from a single segment of a seed and these two sprouts should have the same genotype and should not be counted as two seperate seedlings. Even Monoembryonic seeds can and often do have multiple sprouts coming from a single segment of the seed.

For my Polyembryonic seeds, I usually start them in a double ziplock bag, wrapped with a slightly moist paper towel and put on top of a seedling heat mat. By sprouting in this manner, I can observe and ensure that there is at least two seedlings arising from two seperate segments of the seed.

The original seedlings from the start of this thread were neglected and died and several others were given away to friends so I only have a few seedlings left that were planted last year. One observation I have experienced first hand is that it may be possible to differentiate which seedling is the true clone for unique Polyembryonic varieties like LZ by damaging and and smelling the juice coming from the leaves.

When I damaged the leaves to a LZ seedling, it smelled identical to the smell of the damaged leaves from a true grafted LZ. My current seedlings are too small right now but I also expect to see the wavy appearance of the typical LZ leaves in the true clones.

Even if one were able to select the true clone, there can be mutations and genetic drift that alters the phenotype and genotype.

I know there are lots of people that planted seeds from Zill Polyembryonic varieties and it would be great if you can post pictures or provide additional information or observations. I'll post pictures of my tiny seedlings next time I'm in the yard.


where do you buy them from? and have you tried growing them from seed?
You can pre order mangos from but the quality can be hit or miss. I've had excellent and horrible mangos from them but the customer service was pretty good about refunds or replacement mangos. I order special varieties from them and prefer to pick up the more common varieties like Alphonso and Kesar from Miramar Cash and Carry. They also sell Pakistani mangos as well.


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