Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers



Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - simon_grow

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 134
1
Shinzo, see this thread. The Sweet Tart begins around reply #74.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.50

Simon

2
Maybe it will come back. If I were in your position, I would plant a Lavern Manilla or random seedling next to that tree and let it establish before grafting.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Simon

3
Great looking graft Tusconken! Thanks for sharing your technique. I've had great success with epicotyl grafts on mango and it looks like it may work equally as well on Avocado. I like your idea of planting a seedling next to newly planted Avocado trees as a backup and keeping the one that performs the best. Thanks for sharing your technique!

Simon

4
That looks like the perfect greenhouse grown Lemon Zest. I love the ultra low bushy shape of this otherwise upright vigorous variety. Be prepared to support some fruit. I can't believe how much new growth you got!

Simon

5
Nice trees, make sure to protect them if we get ultra high heat. The double planting should help to keep their size in check. Please keep us updated on these two!

Simon

6
My Florida grafted Lemon Zest is holding fruit and starting a new growth flush as well although I have to stake it up and it has major cracks in the trunk. Hopefully the fruit will be full sized instead of the nubbins I got last year. The panicles were heavily infected with Powdery Mildew and I plan on using baking soda to inhibit this fungus next year. Hopefully this works but I intend to re apply the baking soda mixture every once in a while, especially after a rain, in order to maintain a higher pH to make conditions hostile to sprouting spores.

I'm experiencing dieback on multiple branches on my LZ on Florida rootstock although one of my experimental Double Stone Grafted trees has died back even more severely and was on the brink of death before I sprayed it with Abound. It has since started bouncing back but I may pull it soon because my Sweet Tart on DSG is growing amazing without symptoms of Phomopsis. I'm starting to see why Mango breeders prefer Polyembryonic rootstock- because you can predict resistance, or lack there of, to diseases.

Simon

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: May 26, 2017, 11:49:11 PM »
Wow, that tree is absolutely beautiful. I've been neglecting all my trees so many of them look ragged. It will be super interesting how the fruit turns out. Please keep us updated on that LZ seedling!

Simon

8
Awesome story, thanks for sharing!

Simon

9
If you already have the grafted trees, I would recommend treating them as you have been, taking care of them as best as you could. Some varieties do just fine on Florida rootstock and we don't know which of the new varieties does or doesn't do well on that rootstock yet. You may need to stake up the branches as they get droopy but you might as well work with what you have unless your goal is to grow large trees. I feel that if you are careful to monitor the pH of your soil and water, mulch your trees heavily and foliar with micronutrients, you can have Florida grafted trees growing well.

Fruit4me has many Florida grafted trees that are performing well although he is the only one I know of that has such a large collection of Florida grafted trees doing so well. His thick layer of mulch or his particular microclimate may have something to do with his success. Everyone else I contacted has trees in decline or their trees have already died. Some varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few others grows fairly well on Florida rootstock.

I would just recommend that you plant seeds/seedlings/Lavern Manilla seedlings/ and especially Sweet Tart seeds in close proximity to the Florida trees in case the trees die. If they do die, you will already have a backup seedling that is potentially ready for grafting.

Growing mangos and gardening in general should be thought of as a dynamic process that is constantly changing and evolving. The gardener should have an open mind so that you are able to adapt to changes you observe in your trees. By having backups, you can be ready to save any particular variety if you notice parts of your tree dieing back.

Simply buying Manilla rootstock and grafting them will cause them to flower within a year or two although this may be your best option if you have a variety in decline and have no other rootstocks available. It's better to plant Manilla or whatever other seedlings and not graft them until they reach fruiting size.

I keep saying fruiting size and not giving specific dimensions or heights because each grower will have a different idea of what that ideal fruiting size is for them. One person may want a smaller tree and allowing it to fruit at a smaller size will take away some of that vigor and help to keep the tree small. Others may want hundreds of fruit in which case they should allow the trees to grow out very large before top working the main scaffold branches.

Simon

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: I feel like bragging a little
« on: May 26, 2017, 06:46:41 PM »
Congratulations for your son and the Sabara!

Simon

11
Yup agreed, one rootstock may work well for one variety but not for another. I personally want a huge mango tree, at least as big as the ones Leo Manuel has but I don't want to wait the 15-25 years.

Simon

12
I'm just trying to compile all pertinent information into this thread and I'm lazy so I am copying a reply I posted on another thread. This reply has some info on why I feel Sweet Tart could potentially be a good rootstock for us to use in SoCal where I Strongly recommend planting seedlings that are not grafted and letting them reach fruiting size before allowing them to fruit or topworking them one they have established scaffold branches. Here's my previous reply:

Mono seeds will not grow true to seed whereas Polyembryonic seeds should have one zygotic seedling produced from selfing or from cross pollination and the rest of the seedlings should in theory be clones of the parent. This is basically the same as nucellar seedlings in Citrus.

Polyembryonic seedlings are especially important, in my personal opinion, because they are seedlings and lack the florigenic hormones that cause young, 1 foot grafted trees to flower in cold climates like mine.

Polyembryonic varieties are especially important to mango breeders as use for rootstocks because of their predictable behavior.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

Thanks to Bsbullie for mentioning it in another thread, I never considered using the smell of the sap of crushed leaves(Zills technique) to determine the potential quality of seedlings. I used this technique and hypothesized that one can combine this technique with what we know about polyembrony in order to use the sap smell as a built in genetic marker, similar to how a researcher would insert the green flourescent protein as a marker that is clearly visible and identifiable. In our case, we would use our sense of smell to detect the clone but this only works for polyembryonic varieties most notably from the newer Zill selections that have a strong unmistakable sap smell such as Sweet Tart and Lemon Zest among others.

I confuse myself sometimes so what I'm trying to say is that we are lucky to have these strong sap smelling polyembryonic mango varieties like Sweet Tart because they have a built in clone indicator, the smell of their sap.

This year, I have plans to plant out many Sweet Tart seeds to test it as an alternative rootstock to Lavern Manilla for those trying to grow mango in colder marginal climates such as in SoCal. The Lavern Manilla grows great here but the fruit is horrible and not everyone knows how to graft. Additionally, the Lavern Manilla rootstock IS Polyembryonic but there are no Phenotypic markers allowing the nursery worker or tree purchaser to know with confidence that the tree is actually a clone. Without knowing that you have a clone, the predictability about the growth and fruiting behavior of that tree goes out the window.

I like Lemon Zest more than Sweet Tart but LZ has horrible issues with Powdery Mildew on specific rootstocks. The information I've found for Sweet Tart so far have indicated that it could be an excellent rootstock for marginal climates because of the following:
1) Vigor- its large size and fast growth will enable it to establish and reach fruiting size faster. In my area, mangos seem to grow at about 1/2 to 1/4 the rate compared to South Florida.
2) Polyembryonic- it has a built in Phenotypic marker that allows us to select the clone with confidence. Once the growth and fruiting attributes have been observed and documented, we will have a reliable tree with excellent tasting fruits that grows and fruits with predictability. Observations need to be made on seedling Sweet Tart trees and not ones that are already grafted onto other various rootstocks.
3) Disease resistance- observations made from trees grafted onto Florida rootstock as well as various other rootstocks including Lavern Manilla indicate that this variety is quite Disease resistant. I have not observed any issues with it regarding Anthracnose nor Powdery Mildew.
4) Production- this variety is one of the most productive varieties I have seen. Even small trees will set fruit and try to hold them to maturity. This is actually an issue for people growing mango in colder climates where I am recommending that we grow our trees to maturity( fruiting size) before allowing it to flower and fruit but this is a moot point because I am recommending that we grow seedlings which are not grafted and will thus likely not fruit until it reaches physical maturity.
5) Taste- recent taste evaluations at local mango tastings has ranked this variety at or near the top of polls.

Simon

13
I'm not Zands but mono seeds will not grow true to seed whereas Polyembryonic seeds should have one zygotic seedling produced from selfing or from cross pollination and the rest of the seedlings should in theory be clones of the parent. This is basically the same as nucellar seedlings in Citrus.

Polyembryonic seedlings are especially important, in my personal opinion, because they are seedlings and lack the florigenic hormones that cause young, 1 foot grafted trees to flower in cold climates like mine.

Polyembryonic varieties are especially important to mango breeders as use for rootstocks because of their predictable behavior.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

Thanks to Bsbullie for mentioning it in another thread, I never considered using the smell of the sap of crushed leaves(Zills technique) to determine the potential quality of seedlings. I used this technique and hypothesized that one can combine this technique with what we know about polyembrony in order to use the sap smell as a built in genetic marker, similar to how a researcher would insert the green flourescent protein as a marker that is clearly visible and identifiable. In our case, we would use our sense of smell to detect the clone but this only works for polyembryonic varieties most notably from the newer Zill selections that have a strong unmistakable sap smell such as Sweet Tart and Lemon Zest among others.

I confuse myself sometimes so what I'm trying to say is that we are lucky to have these strong sap smelling polyembryonic mango varieties like Sweet Tart because they have a built in clone indicator, the smell of their sap.

This year, I have plans to plant out many Sweet Tart seeds to test it as an alternative rootstock to Lavern Manilla for those trying to grow mango in colder marginal climates such as in SoCal. The Lavern Manilla grows great here but the fruit is horrible and not everyone knows how to graft. Additionally, the Lavern Manilla rootstock IS Polyembryonic but there are no Phenotypic markers allowing the nursery worker or tree purchaser to know with confidence that the tree is actually a clone. Without knowing that you have a clone, the predictability about the growth and fruiting behavior of that tree goes out the window.

I like Lemon Zest more than Sweet Tart but LZ has horrible issues with Powdery Mildew on specific rootstocks. The information I've found for Sweet Tart so far have indicated that it could be an excellent rootstock for marginal climates because of the following:
1) Vigor- its large size and fast growth will enable it to establish and reach fruiting size faster. In my area, mangos seem to grow at about 1/2 to 1/4 the rate compared to South Florida.
2) Polyembryonic- it has a built in Phenotypic marker that allows us to select the clone with confidence. Once the growth and fruiting attributes have been observed and documented, we will have a reliable tree with excellent tasting fruits that grows and fruits with predictability. Observations need to be made on seedling Sweet Tart trees and not ones that are already grafted onto other various rootstocks.
3) Disease resistance- observations made from trees grafted onto Florida rootstock as well as various other rootstocks including Lavern Manilla indicate that this variety is quite Disease resistant. I have not observed any issues with it regarding Anthracnose nor Powdery Mildew.
4) Production- this variety is one of the most productive varieties I have seen. Even small trees will set fruit and try to hold them to maturity. This is actually an issue for people growing mango in colder climates where I am recommending that we grow our trees to maturity( fruiting size) before allowing it to flower and fruit but this is a moot point because I am recommending that we grow seedlings which are not grafted and will thus likely not fruit until it reaches physical maturity.
5) Taste- recent taste evaluations at local mango tastings has ranked this variety at or near the top of polls.

Simon

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Developing a hybrid mango variety
« on: May 26, 2017, 10:53:47 AM »
Freshly germinated seedlings were evaluated for smell and appearance.


That sounds very interesting. How to judge fruit quality from seedling smell, I mean.


I've got lots of random and specially selected polyembryonic seedlings growing and I crush the leaves of my polyembryonic seedlings to determine which ones are the clones as the sap from the crushed leaves smells identical to the sap of the true grafted variety. Of course I won't know for sure until the seedlings fruit but the smell of the sap for varieties like Lemon Zest and especially Sweet Tart are very unique.

This topic is very interesting. I have considered crossing some of my favorite varieties but the thought of emasculating each male flower on a panicle on a daily( if not more frequent) seemed like too much work and that doesn't even include bagging and collecting pollen from the male flowers of the paternal tree.

Even after a variety is grown up and selected, further trials will likely be required to see how it performs on nursery rootstocks. From the little googling I did, rootstocks can influence scion performance and vice versa.

It appears there were already experiments performed on various rootstocks and various rootstocks that show different size attributes combined with high production has already been selected including rootstocks that show reduced size combined with high yields. As mentioned earlier however, performance will also depend on the scion.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

I'm especially interested in the work Dr Ledesma is working on in regards to new varieties that are potentially more resistant to fungal diseases especially Anthracnose and Powdery Mildew. The fungal diseases seem to be evolving and it would be wonderful if we can get an excellent tasting mango that is productive without spraying.

It would be transformative for mango growers if a rootstock were developed that could impart fungal resistance to all or at least most of the varieties grafted onto it.

Simon

15
Top work it with Po Pyu Kalai or Lemon Zest!

Simon

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What is the best lychee?
« on: May 24, 2017, 07:57:22 PM »
Mauritius is the most reliable producer of fruit. Some say that Mauritius has a very slight cinnamon-like taste. If you only have enough room for 1 tree and you really want a crop every year, Mauritius is probably the best variety for you. This variety is rather small, both the fruit and tree size.
I've read conflicting opinions about the taste of the Mauritius variety. Apparently the flavor has a noticeable difference from the other lychee varieties, kind of slightly sub-acid taste. Some people have said the flavor is very good to excellent, even that it is their favorite lychee variety they have tasted. Other people have said it is the only lychee variety they don't like.

Emperor has the largest fruit size, up to 1 to 1 inch diameter, but its flavor is a little bland/insipid compared to other lychee varieties.

No Mai Tsze is supposedly the best tasting, but has small fruit size and is not the most reliable at producing fruit every year.

Brewster is an all-around good variety, but not really exceptional in any single category, the tree of this variety can grow quite tall so it may not be as suitable for small yards. This is the most common commercial variety in America, and I think the fruit exterior of Brewster has a more attractive appearance than the other varieties, smooth and bright red.

Kaimana is supposed to be an all-around good variety, with great taste and large fruit size, combined with a 'chicken tongue' seed so the fruit contains more edible meat. From what I have seen, Kaimana can get pretty large fruit sizes also, and may possibly contain more edible meat than the Emperor variety (it has a smaller seed). This variety would be a lot more popular if its fruit production were more reliable. From what I have read, there will be many years where it will not produce.

Some lychee connoisseurs are real fans of Hak Ip, but others think the taste of this variety is too "medicinal". It is prized for the firm texture of its flesh and the lack of juiciness.

Mauritius, Emperor, and Hak Ip are "mountain-type" varieties, so the trees do not grow as big and may have slightly more cold and drought tolerance than other lychee varieties (though all lychees need consistent water in dry climates).

No Mai Tsze is still my favorite variety I have tasted so far but it's only available( fruit) in China and Hong Kong where I tasted it. The one at Exotica was sour and the taste and look was not the same as in China and Hong Kong. No Mai Tsze is not a small fruit, it is a medium-large fruit. Smaller than Emperor, Sweetheart, Fei Zhi Siu butvlarger than the average Mauritius and Brewster.

I've harvested some pretty large Brewsters on large established trees.

Emperors pick up a lot of Terroir, more so than other varieties I've tasted. Some years and from some trees, the fruit is kind of bland and a bit sour. Other fruit I have tasted were exceptional with excellent sweetness although this variety has weak Lychee(Rose) flavor. Most my sampling of Emperors were from Lycheesonline.com back when they were still able to ship to SoCal, they can't anymore. My friend had a tree that produced excellent fruit but the tree is a bit picky with soil and died out of the blue. Emperor has a unique shape to the fruit which reminds me of a walnut, maybe because of the pronounced line it gets on its shell. It also bends at a sharp angle where it attaches to the branch, not all fruit. Some Sweetheart/FZS can get as big or bigger than Emperors and vice versa.

Brewster has exceptional taste, in my opinion. I attribute the exceptional taste to the amazing smell and pronounced Lychee(Rose) flavor of this variety. This variety is also very sweet and has low acidity when harvested fully mature. This variety will turn almost fully red but may not be at its peak flavor until after it has been fully red for a period of time but this depends on temperature and amount of sun. The worst thing about this variety is the absolutely huge seed.

There is a Brewster strain that Leo Manuel is growing that has a high percentage of chicken tongue seeds however but we need to track the tree over multiple years to see if this trend continues. If it does, this Brewster selection, for lack of a better term, can be an excellent choice for Lychee connoisseurs. Leo's Brewster fruits pretty regularly although it does go through the normal patterns of low production after a bumper crop year. Brewster is also a good grower and can get tall which makes harvesting difficult.

Kaimana grows well here and the fruit is good quality with great size and relatively small seed. It is a relatively new variety here in SoCal so large trees are few and far between. Quang over at Ongs Nursery has a small medium tree planted in the ground and is currently holding fruit and told me it fruits pretty regularly for him. The Lychee(rose) flavor and aroma are relatively weak for this variety but the texture is great with more firmness.

Kwai Mai Pink or Bosworth 3 is a good tasting variety for those that like sweet fruit with not too much other flavor. It has very low acidity and the fruit is relatively small and prone to attack by fungus. It is supposed to fruit regularly.

Simon

17
On the edge with the hump facing up but I've also grown many laying it flat.

Simon

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What kind of pineapple is this?
« on: May 22, 2017, 10:00:34 PM »
I just cut open this fruit and I knew instantly it wasn't going to be sweet. The color was a very pale yellow, at first, I thought maybe it was a white pineapple, lol. The core was fibrous and not very sweet. The flavor was weak and the fruit was not very sweet with a Brix reading of only 13%. The plant was very small for the relatively large fruit. The flavor and sugar was washed out.

The fruit was pretty much fully formed when I purchased it from Home Depot and it slowly turned yellow in the last several weeks. Time to order more White Sugarloaf Pineapples.





Simon

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What kind of pineapple is this?
« on: May 22, 2017, 06:09:20 PM »
Hey Zands,

I used to buy pineapples and let them sit on the counter until they turned more yellow and started smelling fragrant but most the pineapples I purchase have a sign on it that says ready to eat. Someone posted this on another thread
http://ucanr.edu/datastoreFiles/234-2724.pdf
I still let my fruit sit on the counter for a day or two hoping it will get sweeter. They definitely get more yellow and smell more fragrant if you let them sit a bit.

Simon

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: When do You eat your Lemon Zest?
« on: May 22, 2017, 05:54:46 PM »
I like them fully ripe, one of the most amazingly sweet and complex citrusy flavors I have ever tasted. The first couple fruit from my young grafts were extremely bland but the last couple fruit were amazing. I got a lot of the citrusy flavor off the flesh close to the skin. Some fruit tastes more orangy and some taste more lemony. We use a lot of lemon Zest in my wife's baking and when I make Lemoncello and I've had a couple LZs that have a definite lemon Zest flavor.

This mango is amazing and tastes more like desert! I feel the later season fruit tastes better than the early season fruit.

Simon

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What kind of pineapple is this?
« on: May 22, 2017, 08:26:07 AM »
My kids wanted Tangerines instead of pineapple last night so I didn't cut open the pineapple yet, probably tonight. I've heard that store bought pineapple tops produce sweet fruit but remember I bought this plant at Home Depot andvit already had a fruit developing on it. The plant is pretty small and many of its leaves are damaged so hopefully this fruit will be at least as sweet as a store bought fruit, of. Outer I'm hoping it will be much sweeter:)  I'll post an update when I cut it open.

Simon

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What kind of pineapple is this?
« on: May 21, 2017, 06:16:30 PM »
I Picked the pineapple yesterday because it was almost completely yellow and I was afraid some critters were going to eat it. It weighed in at just under 3 lbs. when I picked it, it had a faint smell of sweet pineapple. I've been at work all day today and I'll probably cut it open tonight as it isn't supposed to get any sweeter after you remove it from the plant. I was hoping to let it ripen some more but if I can smell the sweetness, I'm sure the animals can as well. I find growing Pineapples to be extremely rewarding.

I'll update with a taste and Brix report after I cut it open.




Simon

23
Thanks for the tip Mike, I also have a couple tests where I girdled a couple branches to see if that might increase fruiting.

Simon

24
I harvested my first home grown Grimal Jaboticaba from a Tree grafted onto Sabara seedling. I left the fruit on the tree until the fruit was a little squishy and the fruit tasted excellent with a hint of blueberry flavor. I was amazed by the high Brix reading of 25%! This fruit had three seeds inside it. If I get enough fruit, I would love to make some jelly. I'm glad this grafted tree fruited so early for me, only about 1-2 years from grafting.

Simon

25
I visited Leo Manuel last week and was pretty surprised to see he had some Maha Chanok mangos nearly ripe. I've also noticed on my own small tree that I get a very extended season with this variety. One year I had two crops, the later crop ripening in Winter. The fruit is good, I would consider it second tier, but this tree is worth having because of its extended season, beautiful shape and color of the fruit, wonderful aroma and relative disease resistance.

I did not look to see if any other varieties were ripening but I'll check on the next visit.

Maha Chanok

Simon

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 134
Copyright © Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers