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Messages - TheDom

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pink skin atemoya
« on: August 19, 2017, 07:49:04 PM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting atemoya
« on: August 19, 2017, 03:35:20 PM »
Dom are you grafting them on cherimoya. Steve from fruitscape  puts them on sugar apple and his plants grow nice and fast. Zill puts them on sugar apple. Last time I talked with Adam he was not happy with cherimoya. I am small grower I have only grafted a few hundred. As I said I like to put atemoya on atemoya but I will put them on sugar apple

Yes. The cherimoya rootstock is less variable than atemoya, and both are more vigorous than sugar apple. I've got some from Steve on sugar apple roots and the ones I've grafted on cherimoya roots are catching up in size quickly.

First pic is Birula (aka Super Lisa) on cherimoya roots. Second pic is a Lisa on sugar apple roots. Both get neighboring bushes growing into them from time to time like the Lisa is in this pic, both irrigated, both fertilized the same. Edited to add: they were planted in ground at similar size at the same time also.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting atemoya
« on: August 19, 2017, 02:08:23 PM »
Mike if you're up for some reading starting on page 50 in the "Key Issues" publication they talk about different rootstock used over in Australia.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting atemoya
« on: August 19, 2017, 07:15:56 AM »
 You can put atemoya on sugar apple. I like to put atemoya on atemoya it will be a little more cold hardy.
What do you call dwarfing 15 to 20 feet that is how big they will get on sugar apple.

Basically slower growing. The ones on cherimoya grow at easily 2x the pace of the ones on sugar apple.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grafting atemoya
« on: August 18, 2017, 09:30:25 PM »
Yes. They tend to be dwarfing on sugar apple rootstock and I've been told shorter lived at around 9 years or so.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best way to germinate Atemoya seeds?
« on: August 11, 2017, 07:51:06 PM »
Soak 24-48hrs, stirring it a few times here and there, then discard any that float after that. Planting direct in potting mix in pots or seed trays works well for me. It usually takes a few weeks for them to germinate so be patient and keep them watered. Paper towel works fine but I tend to forget seeds done that way and lose more to mold than I do with seed trays.

If someone wanted to get atemoya scion from Australia Paxton prolific aka AJ Pinks, Hillary white, real Pinks Mammoth and maybe tropic sun would be on the hit list for acquisition.They wouldn't bother with relatively low quality widespread varieties like gefner or African pride.It doesn't really look like any of these but they are variable and climate and nutrition can influence phenotypic expression. Any info on the source at either end or location in Australia or US?

I don't have much info on either side of it unfortunately.

Side note: you said real Pink's Mammoth. Is there known to be an impostor Pink's Mammoth here in the states?

This is the first picture I've been able to get of a "Tim" atemoya. It is rumored to have been from budwood brought over from Australia years ago, but nobody is sure what name it originally had over there. Besides the picture all I've heard about it is that it sets about as well as Gefner without hand pollination and the guy who first started growing it loved the flavor so much he replaced all of his Gefner with Tim. I'll do my best to get more pics through season, and hope to have fruits of my own either late this season or next year.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Soursop (guanabana) or atemoya?
« on: August 06, 2017, 10:15:32 AM »
If I had to choose just one I'd go with atemoya. There are a ton of named varieties you could topwork on a single tree for wide variety of flavors and appearance. Atemoya is also more cold tolerant than soursop, though unless I regularly hit 32 or lower I wouldn't worry too much about planting a soursop. If you're looking to sell fruit you'll probably get better prices for soursop since it is generally better known. Personally I'd rather eat atemoya or cherimoya, and would pay higher prices for those, but most folks have no clue about atemoya.

I'll join the dogpile of folks saying they've gotten soursop much lower than 50 without it dying. I had a maybe 2ft tall soursop in a 3gal pot that survived mid 30s while being badly neglected. It dropped leaves, but bounced right back in the spring and is now over 6' tall planted out at a friend's house. I have plenty of other soursop that got high 30s in pots last year and while they dropped leaves and aren't as big as they would be had it remained in the 50s, they're still growing bigger each year.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 1st successful mango graft?
« on: July 31, 2017, 06:30:32 PM »
Well done! What variety?

Don't re-wrap, it is healed at this point. You can remove the parafilm, but it isn't really necessary.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is this Ilama Ripe
« on: July 31, 2017, 06:04:17 PM »
Congrats on being one of the few folks growing and fruiting this species here in FL. I hope to join that club in the next year or two once my Genova Red is big enough.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Shocking! Watch for yourself
« on: July 31, 2017, 04:11:16 PM »
It is important to point out that the absolute risk of colon cancer that this stupid movie is making a big deal over takes one from an approximate 5% lifetime risk to 6%. The actual numbers are a 17% or so increased risk with a serving of processed meat daily. In my book that's not much to freak out about, especially given that colon cancer is a very treatable disease, but of course risk assessment is a very personal thing.

Contrast that with smoking and lung cancer in which you see a 2300% increased risk of lung cancer, which goes from an absolute risk of about 1.3% to about 17.2%.

That this movie consistently harps on the two being in the same category without briefly explaining the difference is flat out misleading.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Shocking! Watch for yourself
« on: July 30, 2017, 12:00:35 PM »
When you have some fool trying to draw a parallel in cancer causing ability between meat and cigarettes and plutonium, it is a pretty safe bet that you're watching an animal rights activist's propaganda flick.

Didn't there used to be an off topic section for this sort of discussion? Is this sort of off topic discussion generally accepted as OK in this part of the forum now? Personally I'm not a fan but I'm usually good at ignoring it.

So does anyone know if I should relocate the Haden and them top work and then graft? Will the grafts take place while the tree is getting used to it's new home?

No, leave the tree in place if you're going to topwork it. The whole point of topworking is that you're getting the benefit of some already firmly established roots to grow your new varieties on. Growing roots takes time, and if this is a tree that's already well established your new grafts will grow more quickly than they would if they had to grow from a totally new planting. Digging it out pretty much ruins any point of topworking. If you're really set on digging it out and putting it in a new spot, I'd just go ahead and buy another better mango for the other spot you're looking at moving it to.

My recommendation,  for what its worth as I am just a straw biting townhouse know-nothing hillbilly, is to limit the topworking to two varieties.

Don't be modest now Rob, you deserve at least another 3 or 4 adjectives there.  ;D

Yes, now is a good time to graft, when mangos are growing vigorously. Try to get budwood that has swollen buds but isn't already pushing. Bark grafting is pretty straight forward and easy enough to do 3 or 4 scions per limb so you have good odds of getting at least one to take.

Use it as rootstock or zion?

Rootstock, and graft scions of the other varieties you want on top of it. Search the forum for topworking mango and I'm sure you'll get some good posts, but the basic idea is you cut it back to the main scaffold limbs you want and graft new varieties on to those limbs. Be sure to put tags on so you remember what is what.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Input on a decision
« on: July 22, 2017, 10:31:33 PM »
Let's put an end to this nonsense

focus on the leaves

JF, lets.
What are the 4 leaves.
Is Dom's summary correct?
Kindly expand so all is clear.

I was messing with JF above, sorry if that confused things. In his picture the top is A. reticulata and the bottom is A. cherimola. The tree you saw locally is unequivocally A. reticulata, which many Cubans refer to as "chirimoya."

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Input on a decision
« on: July 22, 2017, 08:42:00 PM »
Let's put an end to this nonsense

focus on the leaves

So the top one is a Cuban chirimoya and the bottom one is a Latin American chirimoya?  ;)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Input on a decision
« on: July 22, 2017, 07:42:02 PM »
The tree in the pictures is looks like A. reticulata to me: elongated pointy somewhat shiny leaves, short flowers flowering in clusters are the two main factors that stand out to me. It definitely isn't a cherimoya.

Cherimoya flowers just fine in Florida and sets fruit OK too. The trick is getting it to hold fruit to maturity, which is fairly rare so far. My understanding is it will hold fruit until the seeds are viable and stop developing shortly after.

I have a feeling that some might get a punch in the nose at a meet and greet :-)

That's why we rent some of those sumo wrestling suits ahead of time. Maybe get one extra that Rob can just wear the whole time.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Do Atemoyas Like To Be Pruned?
« on: July 17, 2017, 03:12:42 PM »
With a newer tree I like tip pruning and stripping the next few leaves off when a branch gets a little over a foot long. I usually cut it back to about a foot long and pop off the next 2-4 leaves to encourage new branching. More branching means more fruiting later.

That's a great looking tree. I don't care what Rob says, I'd have let it hold a few fruits at that size.  ;D

Personally I wouldn't really worry about the flowers, just make sure you don't hold too much fruit on a young tree. There's a big difference though between a 4' single whip atemoya and a 4' atemoya with a ton of branching, but either way I wouldn't let it hold more than a fruit or two if you're determined to let it hold some. If you pulled that many flowers off of your tree I'd guess that is has some decent branching to it and is likely a healthy tree. A pic of your tree would help.

Naranja mango aka Mutant LZ
Looks like OS

So is that an LZ seedling?

That really really sucks man. I'd get grafting ASAP.

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