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Messages - huertasurbanas

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticaba and Mycorrhizal Association
« on: October 23, 2017, 06:26:08 PM »
No, I dont know, but brazilians should studied it ...

the only thing I found is this

Jazza: it looks very much like my supposed coronata! leaf venation, new growth, leaf shape and colour

Yes, it looks very rare to me (I dont have that one) and they are not like my supposed coronatas... they look more like m. aureana or phitrantha as Adam wrote...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: feijoa
« on: October 19, 2017, 11:36:35 AM »
Is feijoa is tropical am totally confused about that plz anyone help me?

I would say no: it is subtropical and it can resist -12º C or so. Some tropical growers reported it doesnt produce fruits in tropical climates.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tasting more jaboticabas (video)
« on: October 19, 2017, 07:28:11 AM »
Just 9 days after, the seeds sprouted and there are small trunks in the soil, amazing, very fast.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First jaboticaba flower buds??????
« on: October 17, 2017, 08:41:49 AM »

one month later and the supposed flower buds are just like that!

Yes. a friend will travel to Brasil this summer and will bring it to me! Do you know how many jaboticaba species does it list?

Well, you are right, they dont look just at the leaf venation, the method seems to be the "Foliar architecture" one, and they dont talk about flowers, fruits, etc., that's why it seemed interesting to me, I will keep trying, this is a hard subject for me!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rollinia pollination
« on: October 16, 2017, 01:42:58 PM »
Very thanks! do you know if rollinia emarginata and/or sylvatica need to do hand pollination too? Last year they had a lot of flowers but no fruit set!

Yes, but... look at this study:

"Summary: Foliar architecture of native species of Myrtaceae from Argentina I: Groups "Myrcia","Myrceugenia" and "Plinia". Nineteen species of native flora were studied to find patterns of leaf architecture to differentiate the Argentinean species of the groups (informal subtribal) "Plinia", "Myrcia" and "Myrceugenia" (sensu Lucas et al. 2007), (Tribe Myrteae, Family Myrtaceae). The leaves studied in this work are characterized by being simple, with apex and base variable, membranaceous to coriaceous in texture, and with entire margin. Its venation pattern is characterized by having the first vein category pinnate, simple, and straight, without agrophic veins; venation of secondary category with always brochidodromous-camptodromous veins, with one paramarginal vein, and may have two, one, or none intramarginal vein; the third and fourth vein category are random reticulate or branched, the areolae vary from undeveloped to fully developed and venules branching one, two, or more times.

Key words: Leaf Architecture; Myrtaceae; "Group Myrcia"; "Group Plinia"; "Group Myrceugenia"; Argentina."

sorry, the main text is in spanish...

For instance, for plinia rivularis they wrote:

"Descripción: Hojas simples, pecioladas, de 4.0-4.9 cm de largo y 1.5-2.1 cm de ancho, con lámina coriácea, simétricas, micrófilas, ovadas a elípticas; con base aguda cuneada y, ápice agudo acuminado, rostrado. Margen entero. Pecíolo normal y marginal, 5-6 de mm de largo y 1 mm de ancho. Venación de primera categoría pinnada, simple y recta; sin venas agróficas. 29- 35 pares de venas secundarias, camptódromas, broquidódromas, con vena paramarginal formada por venas de segunda categoría y, con una vena intramarginal formada por los ojales de venas de tercera categoría. Las venas de segunda categoría emergen irregularmente en ángulo agudo (70º en la base, 55º-70º en el centro y 90º en el ápice); curvadas y separadas de manera no uniforme. Áreas intercostales bien desarrolladas con ninguna, 1, 2 o 3 venas intersecundarias simples (raramente compuestas). Venación de tercera categoría reticulada al azar, de curso recto o sinuoso, las venas emergen variablemente en ángulo recto u obtuso. Venación de cuarta y quinta categoría reticulada al azar. Aréolas bien desarrolladas, con 4-5 lados y orientadas al azar. Vénulas ramificadas una o más veces. Venación de mayor orden: séptimo u octavo. Venación última marginal ojalada completa."

auto translation:

"Description: Simple leaves, petiolate, 4.0-4.9 cm long and 1.5-2.1 cm wide, with coriaceous lamina, symmetrical, microphilic, ovate to ellipticals; with acute cuneate base and, apex acute acuminate, rostrado. Full margin. Normal and marginal petiole, 5-6 mm long and 1 mm wide. First category pinnate, simple and straight; without agronomic veins. 29- 35 pairs of secondary veins, camptódromas, broquidódromas, with paramarginal vein formed by veins of second category and, with an intramarginal vein formed by the veins of third category veins. The second category veins emerge irregularly at an acute angle (70º at the base, 55º-70º at the center and 90º at the apex); curved and unevenly spaced. Well developed intercostal areas with none, 1, 2 or 3 simple intersecundary (rarely compound) veins. Venation of third category randomly cross-linked, straight or sinuous, the veins emerge variably at right or obtuse angle. Venation of fourth and fifth category reticulated at random. Well-developed, 4-5-sided, randomly oriented arbors. Branched veins one or more times. Venation of greater order: seventh or eighth. Venation last marginal full eye."

yes it does look like Grimal.

your collection is growing quickly, your doing great work, congratulations!
Thanks, I was lerning from you and other forum members, you are doing a great job too. And I really love fruits and jaboticabas the most, so I just cant stop! It cant be grimal because in Argentina we just dont have it... but it looks like that.

it is SOOOOOO difficult to ID jaboticabas, many of them are similar to sabara but for instance Helton says some of them are coronata... and other people say they are cauliflora, and so on... I really would like to ID them by the leaf venation: it should be possible for many especies, and many of them are really different, for instance p. rivularis, m. vexator, are really different from m. jaboticaba, m. trunciflora, m. caufliflora... etc

Maybe we just have a lot of HYBRID trees and they are playing tricks with us!

If we could ID if by just smelling the leaves, as for instance with e. uniflora!

I found another species -I believe it is something I dont have into my collection- from Misiones, the seller said it bears big fruits and that the "trunk is pretty"... but I dont have more data... just this photo:

It remembers me the grimal... the mid vein is so pronounced!

what do u think?

Hi, today Helton confirmed this should be m. coronata ("It is a variety of Plinia coronata, morphological variation is common in Myrtaceae"), but I am confused... the leaves and new sprouts are so similar to what I think it is sabara! :-S

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tagging trees
« on: October 11, 2017, 08:45:48 AM »
On potted trees, liquid papper is the best!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticaba ID?
« on: October 10, 2017, 05:39:51 PM »
Rtreid: this is being an amazing history... they do look very similar and i am lost at this point, will have to see the fruits...

I read from Helton that cauliflora, trunciflora, jaboticaba and others have very much in common and could be all just one species (hahahaha)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Tasting more jaboticabas (video)
« on: October 10, 2017, 08:28:03 AM »
The fruits were very tasty, sweet and acid, not too acid, like a mix of grapes, guavas and plums (but they were harvested a bit unripe and they traveled for 4 days so I think they were in the starting stage of a fermentation... they had a "wine" taste too). Soft to the touch.

To me, they dont have the green crown in the apex that should have a myrciaria coronata fruit, maybe they are sabará...

My english is not too good, I never speak english! I sound like an arab (dont have nothing against them).

English video:

Spanish video:

Hi, I bought 5 plants (3 years old, 40 cm tall) from a seller at Corrientes, Argentina, that said they are myrciaria coronata... but to me it looks like sabara, myrciaria jaboticaba... what do u think?

The fruits were very tasty, sweet and acid, not too acid, like a mix of grapes and plums (but they were harvested a bit unripe and they traveled for 4 days so I think they were in the starting stage of a fermentation... they had a "wine" taste too). Soft to the touch.

To me, they dont have the green crown in the apex that should have a myrciaria coronata fruit.

And the leaves are different to what I identified as m. coronata (not too elongated, the new sprouts are not like that), very similar to my m. jaboticaba, but new sprouts are not red/brown... or not so brown...

The leaf venation is more reticulated than my sabaras, but very similar:

And the grow habit (or the shape of the plant) is similar to my sabaras:

Hi. well, it is pink enought! ;-)

Hi, I grow something like 10 eugenia especies but tasted 4 of them, I will do a top four then, but they say e. candolleana is one of the best

1 e. pyriformis sweet
2 e. uniflora black
3 e. uniflora red
4 e. repanda

This is a very personal opinion, many people around me would like e. repanda more than those others (as it is similar to a normal cherry, something they know), and many others would like e. uniflora more than e. pyriformis (e. uniflora is sweeter), they are all very good fruits IF YOU HAVE A GOOD VARIETY.

All of them fruit in a pot...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava ID?
« on: October 08, 2017, 07:22:10 PM »
The best guava I had in my life was one growed from tailanese people at Formosa, Argentina, "frutasia": firm, very sweet, few seeds, just great. I have 5 seedlings from that amazing guava.

The favour was similar to psidium australe and psidium guyanense

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« on: October 07, 2017, 06:38:39 AM »
Hi, beautiful tree indeed. I dont get it why I see photos of red fruits on the net but some trees or photos show black fruits from the red hibrid jabo...

By the way: do you think that this fruit could be of a red hibrid jabo?

A woman gave it to me 2 years ago and I dont have photos of the mother plant! the taste was amazing.

I found a photo of a seedling from that fruit, It died then but I have these photos of 2015

it looks like the red...

Richard, no I dont have and never saw something like that, it is similar to sabará, maybe a dwarf version? My caipirinha is dwarf but not that much!

The leaf venation is very rare for a jaboticaba, secondary veins have a very narrow angle! and they go to the tip of the leaf, not to the intramarginal vein, can you take photos of the entire plant and ideally new growth?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticaba "Sabará-de-Cabinho"
« on: October 06, 2017, 06:58:09 PM »
That's very interesting, Miguel! Would you say the flavor is very similar to the common Sabara?

I have a fruit collector friend leaving nearby that has one old Jaboticaba Sabará that fruits heavily every year... I do find the taste of my fruits very close to those of my friends tree (meaning fantastic taste) but frankly I prefer the fruits of my tree because they are bigger... and are mine!

Hi Miguel, maybe you have an hybrid of trunciflora and m. jaboticaba? Could you take photos to trunk and leaves? are the leaves a bit wavy as trunciflora, or elongated?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticaba ID?
« on: October 05, 2017, 05:35:11 PM »
The leaves look more like the first picture in the lineup here of the Plinia cauliflora.

Yes, but that one is what I suppose now that is m. trunciflora! ;-)

grey trunk
grow faster than sabará and many others
very hardy
new red growth
accept city water
very reticulated leaf venation
it develops like an umbela (umbeliforme)
wavy leaves

that's why I think it is trunciflora

How many times per year does it fruits? that would help to id it too...

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