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Messages - fruitlovers

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1
I second what Fiddler says. If you know who's doing it, you''re much more likely to be able to do something about it. Trail cameras cost about $80 and work very well.
If it makes you feel better....i heard misery loves company....i had a thief takes bout 200 pounds of durians when they were still green. Could have sold them for $5 a pound. So about $1000 wasted.  :'(  Got photos, driver's license, even the name of the guy and the police is "still working on it" after several months. So don't expect police to do much about it. At least they don't care much about ag theft here.

https://me.me/i/r-luwuragong-such-nonsense-keith-budden-rayleigh-esser-round-like-3000451
Yeah, it's kinda like that here too. The prosecutor's office admitted to me that the thief was not being questioned in my case because all officers were busy with a case of a police officer being shot at. Maybe they will get to my case in about 2 years!  :o

2
I second what Fiddler says. If you know who's doing it, you''re much more likely to be able to do something about it. Trail cameras cost about $80 and work very well.
If it makes you feel better....i heard misery loves company....i had a thief takes bout 200 pounds of durians when they were still green. Could have sold them for $5 a pound. So about $1000 wasted.  :'(  Got photos, driver's license, even the name of the guy and the police is "still working on it" after several months. So don't expect police to do much about it. At least they don't care much about ag theft here.

3
New IR map:

https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-488.jpg
https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-490.jpg

The Kapoho entry point has moved even further south.  On one hand, it's great that the area it's flowing over doesn't have much there.  On the other hand, I don't like how resistant it's being to go straight to the sea, as if it's built up somewhat of a barrier for itself. Kind of worries me that if it builds up too much resistance on the southern front, it might choose to flow into the remaining houses on the north side of Kapoho  :Ž

No change - neither improvement or worsening - in the health of the flow at the northern branch of the first fork. The partial obstruction that first appeared in the last IR image is still visible.
Resistance in going into sea? What resistance is that? The vast majority of the lava is going into deep sea right now.

4
I go by reports of people that actually live there. The area now being covered is well south of the tidepools. Also the maps tend to be a couple of days out of date by the time they publish them.

6
Yes Elephant Apple, Dillenia indica.

7
New thermal image out.

Older: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-480.jpg
Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-483.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-485.jpg

Only obvious change is that the Kapoho entry point has moved from the northern end to the southern end - I guess she decided that there's some tidepool areas that she's yet to destroy  :Ž. The rest of the flow looks largely unchanged. Oh, and also they've stopped following F16 / F18, calling them just "small flows"
All the tide pools destroyed many days ago. That new area covered is over rocky coastline with no tidepools.

8
That's just plain crazy, and sad.   Looks to be faked, but I believe you.

1990 would be about right.
Definitely not fake. Went to see it last night. Looked just like in that video. Calculated the 7 meters per second rate and it came out to 33 mph. But now hear flow rate can vary at the fountain from 30 to 45 mph.
1990 flow was the one that took out the Kalapana subdivision and black sand beaches.

9
The first 4 photos are M. glazioviana. The last photo might be achachairu. Leaves are right shape, but mine are more glossy than the ones in your photo. BTW all the fruits turn yellow first and then orange when fully ripe.

10
A few weeks ago the Florida Dept of Ag inspector told me they believed the mite is restricted to the north end of Pine Island, called Bokeelia. This Wednesday the FL. Dept of Ag stopped by my neighbor's Lychee grove and gave notice that all Bokeelia Lychee is under quarantine. I spoke to the inspector who was getting compliance agreements signed.
Movement of plant material off farms is prohibited, fruit can be shipped out of state or into Lee County only, but leaves and stems must be removed. The Erinose Mite creates a shelter which makes it resistant to any pesticide, so affected trees must be pruned of all affected growth which means heavy pruning. FLDept.of AG is seeking a contractor to provide major pruning of all existing trees, which should be followed up by spraying as regrowth occurs. This needs to be done as thoroughly and as close to simultaneously as possible across the affected area to prevent reinfection from untreated trees. That is the most up-to-date information I have.
The mites are on the branches and bark, so just removing leaves or spraying leaves won't get rid of them. The good news is that they don't kill the trees and they will continue to produce. Usually the production is just lowered, unless the infestation is really heavy.

The word Erinose describing the mite comes from Erinea, which is an abnormal felty growth of hairs from the leaf epidermis of plants caused by the mites. When attacked by the mites, the leaf hairs (trichomes) undergo hyperplasia (enlargement) and the mites take refuge there and become difficult to treat chemically. It is similar to plants which, when attacked, respond by forming galls of various shapes.

Here is an infected tree  2 months ago in Maui, HI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqnqFxOLeMU

Wettable sulphur applied 3x one week apart over the WHOLE of the tree works pretty well.

11
Good God that seems to be moving fast.  Is that for real?  I was in Puna years ago as flows were taking out houses, roads, etc.  The flow I was close to on a road was creeping, not moving hardly at all.
Yes it's for real. Was estimated to be of speed of 7 meters per second close to fountain and 1 meter per second at ocean entry. 7 meters per seconds was said to be 15 mph? That would mean that the 8 mile trajectory to ocean makes it there in about 1/2 an hour.
I'm guessing the flow you saw was the Kalapana flow? That was in 1990, when i first got here. That flow moved slow because it was totally different from current eruption. The Kalapana flow was lava overflowing from a lake inside of the  crater (Puu O.o). The current flow is from lava fountains. In other words, lava that is at very high pressure and highly liquid.

12
A few weeks ago the Florida Dept of Ag inspector told me they believed the mite is restricted to the north end of Pine Island, called Bokeelia. This Wednesday the FL. Dept of Ag stopped by my neighbor's Lychee grove and gave notice that all Bokeelia Lychee is under quarantine. I spoke to the inspector who was getting compliance agreements signed.
Movement of plant material off farms is prohibited, fruit can be shipped out of state or into Lee County only, but leaves and stems must be removed. The Erinose Mite creates a shelter which makes it resistant to any pesticide, so affected trees must be pruned of all affected growth which means heavy pruning. FLDept.of AG is seeking a contractor to provide major pruning of all existing trees, which should be followed up by spraying as regrowth occurs. This needs to be done as thoroughly and as close to simultaneously as possible across the affected area to prevent reinfection from untreated trees. That is the most up-to-date information I have.
The mites are on the branches and bark, so just removing leaves or spraying leaves won't get rid of them. The good news is that they don't kill the trees and they will continue to produce. Usually the production is just lowered, unless the infestation is really heavy.

13
If you believe this eruption is slowing down, or that it can't reach the coast elsewhere, then watch this video:
https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1816004911791728/?hc_ref=ARSz4vyyzglJMG_PpV3Ba7tyTwN5NbhAPKgq1jktk5jiBUtDlfKRXVmjUR0OQWrftHM

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Update on Russells Sweet Garcinia
« on: June 12, 2018, 08:13:39 PM »
Not necessarily if some nucellar embryony is going on. Some citrus and mangosteens are examples of where the 'seeds' are clones of the parent.
Correct. Many garcinia species are able to produce fruit without pollination (see Prosea book chapter on garcinias.)

15
Yes, it's all hypothetical because levee has not broken and there's not really any reason to think it will break, just something they're watching carefully.
If the flow were to go into parts of Lava Tree park, then the flow would proceed just east of Nanawale. Don't look at google maps. Look at a topo maps and you can get much better idea of actual topography, for example: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/HI/HI_Pahoa%20South_349642_1994_24000.jpg

That's an excellent topo map, thanks for that. But it also shows the ridge north of Lava Tree.  Since this is a US map, I'll assume that these are feet; it shows that the ridge is 40-60 feet high.  Do you think it would go to flow over a 40-60 foot ridge?  Or over the lava flow that's met up with the ridge on its eastern end?  I'm just trying to understand what you're picturing.  I can see that as a possibility, but it's not to me obvious that that's the easiest path downhill, for lava starting in Leilani at the height of the ridge line.  It certainly would be if the north lobe hadn't already butted up against the ridge...

A big unknown, at least for me, is the thickness of the flow in the north lobe at that point. If it's not that thick, then it's not much of a barrier.

And yes, I'm glad that this is all hypothetical at this point  :)

Quote
All the geologists are saying there is no sign of letup.

They've noted a reduction in flow rates, as indicated by fountain heights, at several points in time.  It's been mentioned in some of the USGS videos.  As of 3 days ago, they were talking about it varying from 130 to 230 feet.  It used to be a sustained 250 feet.  So long as flow rates keep declining, that will reduce it's ability to flow such long distances away from the fissure.  Of course, I have no ability to say whether it will continue declining as such, only to note that that's the general trend of volcanic eruptions.

Quote
The big danger is not for Nanawale, but for the rest of Leilani. Fissures 9 and 10, which are uprift of current flow have been gassing and there has been some incandesence, and they could go off again. I hope that does not happen because if that happened a much larger part of Leilani residential area would be destroyed.

Not at all to downplay the danger to the rest of Leilani. I certainly have no ability to say what's going to happen underground.  All I can say about the lava is, whenever it's on the surface, it will move downhill - up to the point that it cuts off its own path to move downhill, or something else does.  Wherein it'll emerge "somewhere else" and flow downhill from there. That's just what lava does  :)

Even if 9 and 10 don't reactivate, there's a serious risk of new flow lobes at some point in the future within Leilani, walled off by previous lobes from taking the easiest route to the coast.
It's difficult to predict what the lava flow will do. When flows have continuous stops and starts then they can easily build up walls to 40-60 foot height. That's not very likely, but it is possible.
BTW, there is not a single scientist saying that the flow rate is not sufficient to reach Government Beach road. On the contrary plans are in the works to have an alternate road out of the area. The flow rate is sufficient to reach 8 miles from Leilani to Kapho, so i don't know why you would think it could not reach the coastline elsewhere? These fountains are flowing here 24/7 for weeks on end. I think you don't realize the massive amounts of lava flow that is occuring.

16
New IR maps out.

Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-476.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-478.jpg

The Kapoho flow just doesn't look as vigorous, although part of that could be contrast, and you never know what's in deeper lava tubes. But the noteworthy change is near Leilani; there's definitely multiple new flows spilling out to the sides of the main channel. In many places, almost like the flow is either getting stopped up (outflow) or accelerating (inflow), forcing the lava level in the channel to rise.  You can even see what looks like some "islands" in the flow going under.

Looks like the potential for even a lobe or two towards PGV.

It's especially dramatic when you zoom in on the images.

There are lots of things you don't know about or can't see from these maps without being here on ground. For example, in Leilani and on Noni Farms Rd. (132) there are huge cracks were massive amounts of lava has gone underground. At one point close to the coast there is also a crater that swallowed up a huge quantity of lava.
The diminishing height of the fountain does not mean lava flow is decreasing. There are currently 3 fountains blowing out of fissure 8, so just because the height of one of them is lower does not mean anything about total flow rate. In fact, the conclusion of geologists is the opposite of what you are making. They are saying that the flow could increase because gas emission from fissure 8 just doubled: 
"Yesterday's measurements show that gas emissions from the fissure system have nearly doubled, possibly indicating an increase in eruption rate from Fissure 8, scientists say."
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/10/6-pm-eruption-update-minor-spillover-of-fissure-8-lava-channels/

17
Yes, it's all hypothetical because levee has not broken and there's not really any reason to think it will break, just something they're watching carefully.
If the flow were to go into parts of Lava Tree park, then the flow would proceed just east of Nanawale. Don't look at google maps. Look at a topo maps and you can get much better idea of actual topography, for example: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/HI/HI_Pahoa%20South_349642_1994_24000.jpg
As for your idea that this is not a new flow and it can't reach Government Beach road, what do you base that on? All the geologists are saying there is no sign of letup. It's pumping just as much material now as it was before. The only thing that has changed is that there are less fissures erupting. All the flow is concentrated in fissure 8. But that one is still maintaining fountains of 200 feet. It's just getting a lot less attention by media now because it's all going into the ocean and no houses are being destroyed.
The big danger is not for Nanawale, but for the rest of Leilani. Fissures 9 and 10, which are uprift of current flow have been gassing and there has been some incandesence, and they could go off again. I hope that does not happen because if that happened a much larger part of Leilani residential area would be destroyed.

18
My vague recollection is that they sprout pretty fast, similar to rambutan, 1-2 weeks.

19
That very small amount of lateral movement in Leiani is in a different area from the area feared levee could break, which is close to intersection of 132 and Pohoiki road. If  levee broke it could flood the area known as Lava Tree park, which is on 132. Nanawale is not in any danger. Look at lines of steepest descent (blue lines on map). Any flow there would take the lava just east of Nanawale and cross Government Beach road on the coast. Problem with that is that such a fllow would block escape route to 2 more different communities, Papaya Farm Road and Waa Waa.

20
In most places the government owns extra land created.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-08/hawaii-volcano-eruption-now-its-worst-on-record/9849540

Oscar, are you going to wait for all the disruptions to ease and take stock of things before getting the business back running at capacity like before?

Not sure yet. For a long time everything was so unstable. I wasn't even sure that i could drive to post office to mail things off. Or even that my area would be evacuated while i was at the post offcie. Right now i'm feeling a lot better because a couple of alternative roads have been opened up. So at least don't think i will be trapped in here. They're even talking of putting in large portable generators should the flow take out the power lines to our area. I will try to resume service as soon as possible. Today i spent the whole day mowing. Had not done that for about 6 weeks. I also lost my employees as they are not allowed to drive into this area. My road is closed to all through traffic, only residents with proof or residence, are allowed in.

21
Do the owners get to extend property line to new expansion?
No they retain their original boundaries. If what you suggest happened than their property would increase 100x or more.

That's unfortunate.  Here I'm pretty sure that property owners land actually gets extended (not just from lava flows, but also jökulhlaup, which are volcanic glacial outburst floods carrying massive amounts of sediment... sort of like "temporarily add a flood-stage Amazon River to the country").

New map - even smaller changes (although they're just showing one day of flows this time, not two). Also, the increasing depth of the water could be distorting how much material is actually being laid down.


 
They've now added in a dashed line for the former coastline, which is helpful.

Hopefully she'll lay down a lot of material just below the waves.  Some new shallows that can be recolonized over time.  Fresh nutrients and unoccupied habitats for life. New formations for divers to see.

Yeah, I'm trying to see the positives here, I really am  ;)

The amount of material being laid down is still massive. Forget how many millions of cubic yards per day was quoted. Yes a lot of the material is going into very deep water so doesn't show up on that map.

22
What you probably don't realize from that map is that the "slow" expansion has added more than 1.3 miles to the coast line. In other words, the property lots that used to be adjacent to the ocean are now 1.3 miles from the ocean. There is a huge lava delta that has formed.

Not at all playing down the magnitude of what's happened overall - not by any stretch.  Just talking about how much less it's expanded in the past few days than in previous days.  Deeper water, broader front, lower flow rate out of fissure 8.

At some point in the future, the flow rate will drop to the point where it can no longer sustain this long of a flow path, and expansion in the "bay" will cease - potentially replaced by another, shorter flow elsewhere.  It'd be pretty remarkable if the current flow could expand further east than Cape Kumukahi, but I really doubt that's going to happen.
I wish your guess would be true, but there is no good reason to believe so. We're only one month in, and the '55 flow lasted 3 months. Fissure 8 is still putting out lava fountains over 200 feet tall. It could go on for a much longer time, or it could all stop tomorrow. Nobody has the slightest inklling of knowledge on this.

23
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
I believe that Alva was also active on this forum from time to time as "chupa king".
Not sure, but i will ask him.

24
Do the owners get to extend property line to new expansion?
No they retain their original boundaries. If what you suggest happened than their property would increase 100x or more.

25
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
If you can make a donation thru Alva's wife Paypal Account which is Mommyinthegarden@gmail.com
Nice young couple. Very sad to see them lose the new house they had just built, and all the plants they had put in.

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