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Messages - simon_grow

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I couldn't wait anymore so I cut into the Banganpalli mango and it was still slightly underripe although it did sweeten up. The Brix only read 16% but it really tasted like it was 19%. I found this mango to be great tasting with less fiber than Kesar.

Did anyone else notice the Kesars had quite a bit of fiber this year?

The First thing that hit me with the Banganpalli was the sweetness followed by the Indian resin taste. The Indian resin flavor profile is completely different than that of the Alphonso and Kesar if you ask me. The resin or turpene component is more one dimensional and does not linger on the tongue like the King and Queen. Some people are going to say I'm pulling this out of my ass but I'm going to put it out here anyways, I got notes of gasoline in the resin component of this mango, in a good way.

I know, I know, it sounds crazy and who in the world would want a gasoline tasting mango right? Well it's just a hint of gasoline in the Indian resin flavor component and it is very very minor and this is according to my palate. I have a sensitive palate and nose. It tastes very unique and is quite a nice change from the resin component of Alphonso and Kesar.

This mango is definitely worth trying


Thanks for the report Warren! My Banganpallis were much more yellow when I purchased them compared to the Kesars. I'll report back tonight with the taste.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Teen Mangos
« on: Today at 06:49:22 PM »
That's awesome! Is that from your own tree? How big is it?


I prep the scions while they are still attached to the tree. Prepping the scions significantly increased my takes. Whenever you make any cuts on a scion, some sap will ooze out, drying it out a bit but not much. By removing leaves before you cut the scion off, the rootstock is able to refill the lost fluid but more importantly, when you remove the leaves from the attached scion, you remove the chemical signals from the leaves that inhibits new flushes. By removing the leaves, the tree sends signals to the now defoliated scion starting the cascades of signaling reactions that initiates bud growth and ultimately a new flush.

Scionwood should really be used as soon as possible I've had success with scionwood that is up to two weeks old. They may last longer but it's not worth the risk to me. When wrapping scions, one or two layers is enough. If your rootstock is weak or the scion was small, it may have difficulty pushing through multiple layers.

Another trick I do is to spray my scions with copper fungicide soap spray if you live in an area with heavy bioburden. If you're growing tomatoes or strawberries or your climate is very wet, it may help. I use it when I graft in the fall or winter but find it's not really necessary unless the weather is cold or scions came from Somewhere humid. Sometimes scions from Florida or Hawaii can have some Anthracnose or sooty mold in which case I would definitely spray and then wrap.

For very important grafts, I remove or cut back nearby branches which removes the apical dominance and stimulates new growth that can help push your newly grafted scion. Always wrap your scion before grafting onto the rootstock so that you don't dislodge the scion as you graft.


I just found this:

The sample size was small in 2015 so I need a larger sampling:)


These early Kesars are not as good as last years. Some of mine are still green on the outside but they are ripe on the inside. They are ripe on the inside but the flesh color is pale and the quality is not as good. The first ones to ripen were more yellow in color and tasted pretty good but these later ripening green ones are sub par. I'm hoping the next shipment will be much better.

The Banganpalli should be ready soon so I'll report back with taste report as soon as I cut them open.


Kaimana is growing and fruiting ok in SoCal, Ongs nursery has a good sized one planted into the ground. Mauritius is the strongest grower here but it's my least favorite Lychee. Mauritius is also the variety that seems to grow well even when other varieties experience die back.

There may be some disease similar to Laurel Wilt disease that is killing off un established trees. Sweetheart is an excellent tasting variety with chicken tongue seeds but it tends to produce much less than both Mauritius and Brewster. I used to hate Brewster but after tasting Leo's Brewster with high percentages of chicken tongue seeds, I decided to plant one. Brewster is also a great cross pollinator for Sweetheart.

I am not sure if anyone has done the genetic testing on sweetheart and Hai Ip yet. Leo has both varieties and I'll report back on similarities if he gets fruit on both this year.


I would plant a Lavern Manilla along with several random mango seeds from store bought fruit and don't graft anything until the trees are mature. See my thread on growing mangos in SoCal for more details. Seedlings with tap roots seem to be more adaptable to adverse conditions.


Sam you are absolutely correct that I should be concerned because the trees can become unstable in high winds. I'm not so worried about the roots busting out of the fabric because they will be air pruned as soon as they grow out of the container.

I am closely following the Japanese method and I will be tying down branches when the time comes and I already have stainless steel C hooks screwed into my roofline about every 2-3feet for holding up branches and supporting fruit. I will not allow these trees to grow too tall but I do want them to grow tall enough to partially shade my South facing wall so that it will cool down my house in the Summertime so that I can save some money by running my AC less often.

I consider this project as living artwork with real designed benefits for me and the plants.  Aside from the cooling affects from shading my wall, the plants benefit from being planted in the sunniest spot in my yard which in turn means the mangos get more actual heat and foot candle units which hopefully will translate into higher quality and sweeter fruit.

I will likely stick with the guidelines set by Dr Yonemotos articles and only allow 1 fruit for every 80 leaves in order to maximize quality.

My side yard is literally only 4-5 feet wide and I'm now able to utilize this space for fruit production instead of leaving it empty.


If your rootstock is strong and vigorous, preferably beginning a new vegetative growth and you prepped your scions by removing leaves and letting the scars heal your grafts have a good chance of taking. Of course it also depends on your grafting abilities as well but you seem eager to learn and your asking questions on the forum to better your chances. Please keep us updated on the progress of your grafts.

When I get failed grafts, I like to unwrap them to see what possibly went wrong. Sometimes I just make sloppy cuts and the cambium didn't heal over. Other times there is some callus tissue forming but the graft just didn't take for some reason, I usually attribute these failures to weak rootstocks.


Thanks guys. Trung, the raised beds are made up of fabric and you are correct that they are supported by PVC framing. These raised beds are filled with potting soil and are set on top of concrete so there is nowhere for the roots to go except to stay inside the confines of the raised bed.

Sam, you are correct, the raised beds are only about 14 inches tall and that is all the vertical height the plants roots will receive. I am trying to follow the directions given by the attached articles as closely as I can.

These beds are planted along my South facing wall so this spot will give them the most sunlight and the concrete flooring will heat up the soil faster and also wick away excess moisture. I have no issues growing mangos in raised beds or in pots because the soil is slightly acidic to begin with. Most my issues planting mango arises when I plant the trees into the ground where the pH is too high and there is much buffering capacity from the high mineral content of my clay soils.

I'll try to keep this thread updated with pictures so that everyone can follow along on another crazy mango growing adventure. As these trees grow, I will take their growth rate and structure into consideration and if there are any trees that are significantly lagging behind the others in growth, I will replace it.

I've had these raised bed planters for about 4 years now and my main concern is that they will soon begin to deteriorate. If this happens, I will probably frame around it with vinyl or wooden panels.


I got three of my trees planted, I can't find any Lavern Manilla right now but they should be showing up in the garden centers soon.

This first picture is my California Super Mango rootstock with multiple supporting rootstocks of various varieties. All the other seedlings in this bed are just random seedlings I'll use for future grafting.

Next is my Lemon Zest seedling. This guy is ugly with only a few leaves left. I keep plucking leaves off of it to show other growers that this seedlings sap smells just like the actual grafted Lemon Zest variety.

Next is a very vigorous Kent seedling.

I disturbed the roots a bit while planting these seedlings so I'm going to let them recover a bit before topping them in order to develop a low canopy.

I've only had one or two not very well ripened PPKs from our annual mango tastings so I can't say as they were considered inedible. I do have a PPK tree grafted onto Manilla rootstock that appears to be growing well and the very small blooms which I recently removed did not have any indications of disease. It will be several years before I can harvest fruit from my own PPK tree but I can't wait to taste it.

I had the pleasure of meeting Maurice Kong a couple years ago and I told him how greatful I was for him bringing the PPK mango into the USA and sharing it with us mango enthusiasts.

Behl, it will be growing in Thailand and Cambodia soon too.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Too late to use this for grafting?
« on: April 27, 2017, 02:53:42 PM »
Yes, wrap the apical bud as well but try not to overwrap as it can make it difficult for new growth to push through. I usually wrap my scions with just 1-2 layers of parafilm or buddytape.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Indian Mango season 2017 has begun!
« on: April 27, 2017, 02:50:19 PM »
Miramar Cash and Carry were supposed to get their shipment of Kesar mangos today but I just called them and they have not received it in yet. They said they will have it in by the weekend.


Hey Mike, thanks for the information. I've got some Lemon Zest seedlings growing as well and their leaves smell just like the actual grafted LZ variety. I'm glad you guys have this variety in Australia and can't wait to hear the taste report from your location and around the world. The taste profile is completely different than Kensington Pride and I believe it will be one of the favorites of those who try it.


A while back, Lemon Zest scions were sent around the world(IIRC) and I was wondering how the trees are performing and if anyone has harvested fruit from their grafted trees yet? Does anyone in Australia have a producing tree? If so, what do you think of the flavor and quality of the fruit?

I'm interested to hear about the growth habit, susceptiblity to disease and especially eating qualities of this variety when grown in different countries.

I'm a big fan of this mango but it is very prone to Powdery Mildew in my climate when grown on Turpentine rootstock but it seems to perform much better for me when grown on Manilla rootstock. Others like Gary in Palm springs has a Turpentine rootstock tree that grows great and does not seem to be affected with Powdery Mildew in his hot arid climate. It is one of my favorite mango and I'm wondering if our friends around the world have had the pleasure of tasting this fantastic top tier fruit yet?

I still remember the first time I tasted my first Lemon Zest and that moment will be forever etched into my mind. I couldn't believe a mango could taste this good! It was so sweet and citrusy with a perfect melting texture, truely a perfect(tasting) mango.

The first fruits off my tree were horribly bland and I was so disappointed but the later ripening fruit were absolutely fantastic. If the first fruits off your tree are bland, give it some time, often the first couple years of fruit can be a bit bland from what I've heard.

My hat goes goes off to the Zills family for creating these wonderful new varieties. I can't wait to see what new creations they will come up with in the coming years. I have yet to taste Orange Sherbet, Phoenix, Cotton Candy and many other new Zills creations but if Lemon Zest is any indication, we are in for a sweet and tasty, probably subacid, treat!!! 


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Too late to use this for grafting?
« on: April 27, 2017, 12:33:05 AM »
Sometimes there is only one growth point at the tip, usually on the smaller, thinner branches. By prepping the scion and waiting to see what swells, you can harvest the scion at the best state for that particular branch. If you see multiple buds, you can wait for them to swell a bit. If it looks like it's a single terminal growth point that looks like it's about to push, take the scion immediately. I don't like my scions with overly swollen buds.


I hand strip the leaves if I wants early crop. In my climate, sometimes the older leaves can hang on for a long time. You can get an extended harvest if you strip part of the tree each week or month.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Too late to use this for grafting?
« on: April 26, 2017, 06:37:09 PM »
I've had success with scions like that but I prefer to prep the scion some more by clipping off all the leaves and leaving it for a week or two but prior to any more pushing from the apical bud. If your hoping for just the apical bud to push, prep the scion by removing leaves and waiting about a couple days so that the leaf petioles can heal and dry up a bit.


What are your average nightly low temperatures now? If your nightly lows are above 62F, there is a good chance the next flush will be vegetative. The literature says the temps should be above 66F but it's not an exact science. Another good sign the next flush will be vegetative is if nearby mango trees have vegetative growth flushes.

Your tree looks like it's in decline which opens it up to infection to diseases such as Phomopsis.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Indian Mango season 2017 has begun!
« on: April 23, 2017, 08:07:08 PM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Indian Mango season 2017 has begun!
« on: April 23, 2017, 08:05:13 PM »
I just stopped by Miramar Cash and Carry to pick up some more Kesars but they are all out. They did have plenty of Banganpalli(Badami) for $25.99 for a box of 9 fruit. I picked up a box of the Badami, I guess this is an alternative name for Banganpalli.

The cashier said they will be receiving their next shipment of Kesars on Thursday. I'll report back on the taste of the Badami when they ripen up.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Indian Mango season 2017 has begun!
« on: April 23, 2017, 08:31:19 AM »
I also believe that refrigeration harms the ripening process. These early Kesars and Alphonso's are very good but not excellent yet. The mid season fruit are excellent. The Kesars and Alphonso's usually give off a sweet aroma with some Indian twang when it is ripe for eating. The flesh color should also have a slightly orange tinge that gets darker as it approaches ripeness. If the flesh color is a dull yellow, the fruit is either not ripe or it was harvested pre maturely.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Struggling Mango Tree
« on: April 22, 2017, 11:53:11 PM »
I usually spray with 1 tablespoon per gallon of water but your tree has major deficiencies so I would go with 2 tablespoons per gallon. You can spray, wait a week or two and spray again with 1 tablespoon per gallon. If your soil pH is around 6.5 and you are pretty confident that you do not have nutrient lock, you can also perform a drench with the Southern Ag.

From what I've read on this forum, Florida is very humid and you get a lot more rain than us so you should avoid spraying if rains are expected.

Your tree looks like it's in a weakened state so fungal and bacterial infections will have a much easier time getting a foothold. Not sure if you have Phomopsis around your area but keep your eyes open for signs of infection. Once your tree gets healthier, it will be much better able to ward of diseases.


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