The Tropical Fruit Forum

Har, thanks for all the info, pages and table have been updated!

This is great work by starch!

Thanks Future!

I'm a yes on the sample table. I like that you didn't try to summarize flavor, but just provided a handy index to all the comments available from first hand tasters who have shared opinions. I think that in the variety column it would be great if you could add a ref to the entry you've already created with the full summary for the variety that way it would be really easy to surf to more detail from the table. Nice work!

That is a good idea, will do. Thanks!

Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees

Cultivar Name: Rapoza

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Another naturally compact tree, per the appearance of two trees at Zill's,  is the 'Rapoza', originally from Hawai'i.(REF)

-- I planted one from a 3 gal a year and a half ago.  It has tripled in size, it is over 8ft tall. (REF)

--  It is a very vigorous grower for me.(REF)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- It can be recommended to anyone wanting a compact tree with disease-resistant fruits and very good productivity(REF)

-- It flowered early and set lots of fruit and currently has new flowers.   During the first flowering, we had a lot of rain so it handles the wet well.  There are 3 large mangos on the tree now, over a pound. (REF)

-- supposedly very resistant to disease...and a great mango...

the disease/humidity tolerance alone makes it a winner in eyes.

maybe a good choice for the FL growers who want to go organic, and spray less?(REF)

-- good production(REF)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Over here best late season mangos are 1) Rapoza(REF)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- fruit size and color and flavor similar to 'Kent.'(REF)

-- If what I hear is correct, the Florida red is the Hawaiian rapoza. That said, when Robert is here unloaded a bunch of Florida reds last late June, my wife thought they were some of the best mangos she's ever tasted. I'd agree that they were a top 5 for me that year. My rapoza is about to fruit this year for the first time. bloomed twice and is a vigorous grower. No disease problems yet.

Wish I could tell you more.(REF)

-- If you compare ratings for Florida Red versus ratings for Rapoza, you will see that Florida Red will get much higher ratings in Florida, even on this forum. Never mind that they are both the same mango. What does this tell you about influence of preconceived ideas in ratings? 
Rapoza does very well here in super rainy east Hawaii. It has great feature of continued flowering until it finally hits a bit of a dry spell, then you get a very good flower set. It has a lot of good qualities going for it: good coloration, good production, good sized, disease resistance, and ofcourse great taste. I'm sure it could be improved upon....but then again what fruit can't? It is a seedling and improved version of Irwin, so if you don't like Irwin you may not like it? I don't know i haven't tried Irwin yet.(REF)

-- Nothing bad about either however not my favorite.   Irwin had more of an almost generic mango taste like that of a really good Haden (not saying it tasted like a Haden but of just a classic mango flavor).  The Rapoza I have had have had a more distinctive flavor like that of a more intense Irwin with a citrusy component.

Again, both were good but not what I would call my favorite. (REF)

-- Rapoza = ultra fibreless!  even the seed has no clinging fibres.(REF)

-- At the Broward RFVC meeting, Eric from Pine Island spoke about rapoza.  He said they have been grown in Homestead for the last 20 years, marketed as Redland Reds.  He rated them a 10 in taste.  I bought a rapoza at the Fairchild mango festival last year.  (REF)

Jani,

I think you are making some very good points. I agree that there is no way that flavor cannot be subjective, so there is already an (admitted) problem with trying to generate this list.

But let me take the other side of the argument

Some guide to the flavor profile of the mango that you are considering purchasing is far better than no guide at all. The whole point of this post is to gather and centralize information based on forum members observations and experiences with growing these cultivars. And after all, why are we growing mangos? Because we want to eat them, because we enjoy the taste.

The subjective pleasure from eating the mango and preference of one flavor over another is completely individual. But having some input on those flavor experience from others that have grown and eaten the fruit I think could be very helpful.

Regarding open-mindedness vs. close-mindedness

I will give myself as an example. I have never had a Carrie mango before and have never had a mango that could be classified as piney/resinous before. But a couple of days ago I bought a Carrie mango at a nursery. After I grow it, could I hate it? Yes, possibly. Could I love it? Yes, possibly. But I am willing to give it a shot because I am open-minded and want to try new things, even if some people might really dislike it.

Some people on the other hand are close-minded and don't want to try something 'different' (however that may be defined). And so I don't think a table of flavor experiences will change that person's opinion.

So I think the potential upside benefit (more information based on forum members experiences) far outweighs the downside (closing the mind of someone who doesn't want a new experience to begin with) in generating a table of flavor profiles for mangoes.

But what I will do is make a sample table below and let the group weigh in on whether it seems worthwhile.

Quote from: sunworshiper on September 10, 2015, 08:33:59 AM

A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!

I would not make flavor profile part of it.  Tastes are very subjective and are also subject to proper harvesting, ripening and care which many do not do.

I am not thinking like: excellent taste.
But more like "Julie has a Caribbean mango flavor profile with resinous/piney flavors present". Or something like that. So for example if someone really wants a Julie based on the tree size, but has never tried the fruit but they really don't like that flavor profile, then they won't go to all that effort to grow something they won't ultimately like.

A very seasoned tropical fruit grower in Texas has pointed out a cultural factor I really need to consider and that is the length of our growing season here in central Texas.  This would also apply to a few posting here and growing in greenhouses in "cold" climes, short growing climes if you will, like zone 7-8.  So the question for growers in central & S. Florida would be - do your mango trees ever go dormant and if they do, when?  Are they still growing Dec.-Feb.?  Our growing season is about to wind down. I just topped my Mallika and it remains to be seen if it pushes new foliage, or it will wait until about March of next year to push.

Where I'm going with this is, if it takes me 10 years to get a 12' tree with a "regular" tree such as Kent or Sweet Tart, then why should I focus on a natural compact tree?

No, bigger is not better,
Mark

Mark, that is a really good point. Miami has a latitude of 26 deg, Fredicksburg has a latitude of 30 deg, Phoenix and San Diego have latitudes of 33 deg. All these will affect daylight hours, and the length of the season (i.e. the closer to the tropics [23.5 deg] you get the more 'tropical' you day length gets - much more constant). Plants are very sensitive to both diurnal and seasonal light and temperature variations.

That would be an interesting experiment to see how compact even moderately vigorous varieties get the more north you go.

I recall someone pointing out (I don't remember which topic) that Keitt in San Diego is a moderate size tree, but in South Florida Keitts are absolute monsters. I think the phrase that was used was 'you can almost hear them growing overnight'. This probably has a lot to do with the humidity difference, but I think the latitude also plays a non-trivial role.

Good observation!

This is a great conversation with lots of good points. I feel that Genetics plays a big part in a "compact mango" but perhaps there are techniques we can use on our trees to get the desired result while overcoming some obstacles that would otherwise cause one to overlook a cultivar.

For Example, the Ice Cream mango is a wonderful, no Excellent Top Teir Mango but it is very slow growing and may not be very productive. There are reports of it being both a good and bad producer. I know some of you are sick and tired of hearing it but what if Double Stone Grafting could give you a highly productive and more vigorous growing tree that is possibly more disease resistant, use specific rootstock, and grows more compact due to grafting effects( reported from Bernie Dizon in Phillipines).

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16549.0

Due to the ultra low nature of Double Stone Grafts, you can theoretically get branching just 6-8 inches from the ground. If you are growing in a large pot, this will give you a compact bushy plant that is elevated off the floor by about 2+ feet allowing for good air circulation in order to avoid disease and to keep the fruit off the ground. A bushy tree will have more growth points which increases the odds of more flowers and fruit. Heavy fruiting will use up much of the trees resources further reducing the growth of the tree.

I will soon be performing several DSGs on Ice Cream and maybe Julie and I will keep everyone updated. I hear the argument against growing great tasting Mango varieties such as Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart because they are too vigorous but I hope you will taste one of these mangos before deciding it may be too much work to prune and keep small while being productive. For me personally, taste is number one.

Simon

Thanks simon!

Yeah, I have read your post and am very excited to see what you find with this experiment. If DSG really does increase the health and disease resistance of the tree but provides essentially a dwarfing aspect then that would be the best of all worlds. If somehow (wildest mango dreams) we could get a productive Lemon Zest (for example) that doesn't have to be 15-20 ft tall, that would be really exceptional!

I am following that thread with great interest!

Awesome compilation, starch!
Putting together all the observations (some of them contradictory!) about a variety will help others decide whether to venture that way or not. Yes, some mango varieties are naturally compact, others can (hopefully!!) be kept compact with a little more effort. So newbies can at least get their eyes opened a bit more before planting.

Thanks StPeteMango! Yeah, that was definitely what I wanted to show, that there is some contradictory info on cultivars. There is certainly not any clear cut consensus on anything (except maybe Pickering, most everyone seems to love it!).

Plant and experiment and enjoy. If things get out of hand, chainsaw.

Indeed

Thank you all for the advice! I will be sure not to clip any more leaves! My question now is that should I put them in a different mix? I would hate to see them die on me. I'm a little wary about new pots right away because I don't want to damage the roots. Any suggestions?

Since the leaves are still copper they are still relying on the seed for energy. If you dig them up (gently) you will see the taproot and it will be maybe 4-5" long with very little root branching coming off it at this point. You can safely transplant it (gently) into a new mix. I have done that with no ill-affect on the seedlings.

Thanks Mike and Delvi,

Yeah, reading about Black Sapote flowering habits is really interesting. Hopefully it is self-fertile and I don't have to worry about it. But if not, I could always graft on another variety to make a cocktail (mostly for pollination purposes).

Is the Black Sapote cultivar Reineke self-fertile?
I am doing google searches and cannot find a definitive answer to this one.

What is the experience here from growers on the forum?