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Author Topic: Lemon Zest Seedling Project  (Read 9091 times)

simon_grow

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Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« on: August 05, 2014, 01:09:25 AM »
Hello Everyone,

After tasting the infamous Lemon Zest, I can't stop thinking about how amazing it was. I already have two decent sized grafted trees but now I'm also multigrafting LZ onto some of my other mango trees. In addition to this, I have planted out a LZ seed and intend to grow out all sprouts to see what I get.

I would like to know if others are growing out any LZ seeds and how many sprouts you got from each seed? Did some have multiple sprouts that eventually died ? How are your seedlings doing now? Do the seedlings have that curvy look to its leaves? It would be great if we can use this thread to track the progress of all the LZ seedlings out there all the way to fruition.

Since LZ is polyembryonic, I would like to keep track of each sprout from a seed so that we can document wether the dominant or smaller sprouts eventually have fruit that tastes like the parent. I only have one LZ seed to work with but I'll use this thread to track its progress. So far, only one sprout has emerged. I'll post a picture in the coming days.

Simon
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 01:12:35 AM by simon_grow »

Mr. Clean

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 12:25:42 PM »
Good luck with your seeds and multi-grafts.  I wasn't overly impressed with LZ's flavor, but it could be an off year.  I also noticed LZ had a lot of fruit drops and some splits on my tree.  It is also a vertical grower (as opposed to compact).  The sri lanka weevils also seem to prefer the LZ tree leaves over some other mango varieties.  Knowing what I know now, I might not have planted it.  But it is in the ground and producing fruit, so I am content.
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110+ fruit trees/plants; 70+ mango trees; 12 jackfruit; 6 avocado; 3 persimmon; 2 longan; and a dog that keeps raccoons and squirrels away.

bsbullie

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 12:40:58 PM »
Good luck with your seeds and multi-grafts.  I wasn't overly impressed with LZ's flavor, but it could be an off year.  I also noticed LZ had a lot of fruit drops and some splits on my tree.  It is also a vertical grower (as opposed to compact).  The sri lanka weevils also seem to prefer the LZ tree leaves over some other mango varieties.  Knowing what I know now, I might not have planted it.  But it is in the ground and producing fruit, so I am content.

Why are you growing mangoes at all? 

YOUR TREES ARE VERY YOUNG, IT IS QUITE NORMAL FOR FRUIT TO DROP AND NOT BE REPRESENTATIVE OF OVERALL FLAVOR AND QUALITY.  Maybe you missed the 10000000 emails emphasizing this.  Thats okn though, it leaves more LZ fruit for everybody else.

Many mango varieties have a vertical growth habit.  If you have a small yard it could be a limiting factor in the number of trees or variety selection but when you have the space you do, who cares???

I have also not seen any evidence that the weevils, Sri Laken or otherwise, prefer LZ to other varieties.  Maybe they do in your yard but your general statement that they prefer LZ is not founded or accurate.

If you are content, THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP COMPLAINING?????   ???  ::)
- Rob

MangoFang

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 01:18:32 PM »
RATS!

Another completed post and I hit the wrong button and it all disappeared.....
HATE when that happens.... >:(      >:(      >:(

Anyway, now that I've calmed down (NOT!), Simon, are you sure they are
polyembrionic  ?? ??  ?  If so I'll plant my final five fruits starting tonight when I
will eat one of these:






...which six days ago looked like these (if you'll remember my post of
fruit ripening from the bottom up...).  They appear to have ripened fairly
evenly, thought the bottom point is definitely softer:






Simon - I'll try to remember to keep track of how the sprouted seeds behave.....
it's a memory thing with me..... ::)

Gary

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 08:49:01 PM »
Its a Purdy Fruit ! ;)..
Pushing The Zone Limits ......

MangoFang

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 12:36:31 AM »
Man o Man, Simon!  I ate one of the two LZ mangoes you see in my picture tonight,
and it was BURSTING with razzy orange delight-fullness!!!!!!!!!!!

So far, the best and most unique mango I've ever eaten - I could not, WOULD not want to eat
another one after one of these.  A truly, utterly rich and satisfying meal all by
itself....If this is polyembrionic, I'm planting this sucker and guarding it with
my life....

Ah....the future looks bright!


Gary

wslau

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 12:44:48 AM »
Gary,
LZ should be polyembryonic, just like its parent PPK.
Happy planting!
Warren

bsbullie

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 12:49:41 AM »
Gary, and others in the US considering planting seeds - are you looking to get another LZ or are you trying to come up with another variety?   If you are trying to get a.clone and another LZ,  why not plant a seed and graft with budwood from the tree th ou already have?
- Rob

Tropicdude

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 02:34:59 AM »
I will be in Fla in Sept. I would like to get a couple LZ seeds.  My grafted LZ died on me last year.  and I wont be bringing in live plants anymore.  seeds and scions ok..

  I did not know it was a Poly.  anyone know how long mango seeds remain viable?  I'd appreciate it if anyone could save me a couple seeds, I'll drive anywhere down in S/Fla. to pick them up.
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

simon_grow

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 03:59:35 AM »
Thanks for the replies!

Gary, your LZ mangos look absolutely amazing! Thanks again for the invite to the Desert mango tasting! The LZ seed I planted was directly from the mango tasting and I just spotted a second shoot coming out so it's definitely polyembryonic! Let's see if one of us can hit the LZ jackpot with an excellent tasting seedling!

I personally really really love LZ mangos and want to grow some from seed because I feel the undisturbed tap root will help the tree grow more vigorously especially here in SoCal. I'm hoping for fruit that will taste similar to a LZ but different, perhaps with a little more tropical taste. LZ itself is a seedling of PPK so I know that good flavor is in its genetics, specifically the gene that carries the citrusy aspect of both LZ and PPK.

I would also love to graft the original LZ onto a LZ seedling as an insurance policy to ensure I will eventually get a large LZ tree that will be capable of supporting a lot of fruit.



« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 04:01:31 AM by simon_grow »

wslau

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2014, 10:15:58 AM »

Since LZ is polyembryonic, I would like to keep track of each sprout from a seed so that we can document wether the dominant or smaller sprouts eventually have fruit that tastes like the parent. I only have one LZ seed to work with but I'll use this thread to track its progress. So far, only one sprout has emerged. I'll post a picture in the coming days.

Simon

Gary, and others in the US considering planting seeds - are you looking to get another LZ or are you trying to come up with another variety?   If you are trying to get a.clone and another LZ,  why not plant a seed and graft with budwood from the tree th ou already have?

Simon, bsbullie,
I'm doing virtually the same experiment too, but with poly varieties varieties Florigon and Brahm Kai Meu... to start.  I got frustrated with all the conflicting published information on zygotes and clones and larger sprout versus smaller sprouts.  So I thought I would take this matter into my own hands.  Although the thought of getting a variety better than its parent (1000:1 odds?) is secondary for me, it would be a nice surprise if it happened.  The toughest part is that the experiment will most likely take 5-7 years.   I hope the zygote/clone experimental result is not variety dependent!
Warren

fyliu

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2014, 12:42:29 PM »
Guys, if you want the clone, just germinate the seed and dump the mass into a 5 gallon bucket. Then gently pull them apart to see which one is the cross and discard it. The fertilized one will have true cotyledons attached to it while the clones are not attached to anything.

MangoFang

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2014, 02:17:39 PM »
I hear ya Rob - I'm looking to use these seedling LZ's as possible gifts to people, but
to REALLY get the goods goin' I'm DEFINITELY going to start grafting
my LZ tree onto other potted seedlings I've got (which includes some
Manilas from last year and the year before)  I mean, I really can't see improvement
on what it's produced so far.  Now my grafting skills - that's another story.... :'(

I mean - to me this mango is the cocaine of the mangifera addiction... and it
looks like there's going to be a few more LZ's in my backyard at some point.
(I do this a lot - go bonkers and attempt to acquire multiple varieties of
a great mango....!!!!)

Your welcome, Simon and good luck with the seedlings and your refractometer!

 ;D

fyliu - I might take a picture of my sprouted LZ seed someday, and throw it into
that bucket and you can tell me which is the "alleged" clone seedling(s) and which
is the fertilized one.....very interesting observation by the way.....thanks....


Gary

simon_grow

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2014, 02:29:28 PM »
Wow Fang,

Thanks for the information! I'll probably grow out the zygote as well just to see what I'll get. I'm afraid I will injure the seedlings roots but I'll report back after the operation.
Simon

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2014, 05:03:37 PM »
I personally really really love LZ mangos and want to grow some from seed because I feel the undisturbed tap root will help the tree grow more vigorously especially here in SoCal. I'm hoping for fruit that will taste similar to a LZ but different, perhaps with a little more tropical taste. LZ itself is a seedling of PPK so I know that good flavor is in its genetics, specifically the gene that carries the citrusy aspect of both LZ and PPK.

Q: Experts; What are the odds of that happening?  1 in 10?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 05:06:14 PM by ricshaw »

bsbullie

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2014, 06:31:19 PM »
I personally really really love LZ mangos and want to grow some from seed because I feel the undisturbed tap root will help the tree grow more vigorously especially here in SoCal. I'm hoping for fruit that will taste similar to a LZ but different, perhaps with a little more tropical taste. LZ itself is a seedling of PPK so I know that good flavor is in its genetics, specifically the gene that carries the citrusy aspect of both LZ and PPK.

Q: Experts; What are the odds of that happening?  1 in 10?

Gary started with more than 20 PPK seedlings before he was able to widdle down to get Orange Sherbert and Lemon Zest...some he let go all the way to fruiting age to learn they were destined for the wood pile.
- Rob

simon_grow

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2014, 09:45:34 PM »
I'm thinking the odds are much worse for the Zygote but I'm counting on genetic differences from the supposed clone. As some have discussed in other threads , supposed clones often taste different than the original parent. I believe this was experienced in some Nam Doc Mai's. I'm just guessing that some varieties like Kensington Pride may come more true to clonal seed. I'm hoping this thread may answer some of these questions.
Simon

wslau

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 12:48:56 AM »
On a related note...A lot of talk today on zygotes and clones.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12057.0
Warren

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2014, 01:04:54 AM »
I'm thinking the odds are much worse for the Zygote but I'm counting on genetic differences from the supposed clone. As some have discussed in other threads , supposed clones often taste different than the original parent. I believe this was experienced in some Nam Doc Mai's. I'm just guessing that some varieties like Kensington Pride may come more true to clonal seed. I'm hoping this thread may answer some of these questions.
Simon


Simon
Here is a prefect example of a clone NDM that's over 30 years old from Thailand. These NDM don't split and taste exactly like my NDM #4 but some are 3 pounds










bsbullie

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2014, 01:11:33 AM »
JF - those are shaped different than the NDM we have here.  Ours dont have that hook at the bottom.
- Rob

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2014, 01:20:07 AM »
JF - those are shaped different than the NDM we have here.  Ours dont have that hook at the bottom.
Rob
they look different but the owner of this tree plant it from seed in 1982 from the Thai temple. He said it's a NDM from Thailand

bsbullie

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2014, 01:27:16 AM »
JF - those are shaped different than the NDM we have here.  Ours dont have that hook at the bottom.
Rob
they look different but the owner of this tree plant it from seed in 1982 from the Thai temple. He said it's a NDM from Thailand

There are many NDM varieties, Siatong, Mun, #4 to name a few.   They actually all have numbers c associated with them like #4 for example.  I wonder which one that is...does it taste any different than #4 or "regular" NDM? 
- Rob

simon_grow

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2014, 04:53:54 AM »
That tree is awesome! I hope I can get a few of my trees to get big like that.

Does anyone know if Orange Sherbet is also a seedling of PPK ? Thanks,

Simon

bsbullie

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2014, 07:25:46 AM »
That tree is awesome! I hope I can get a few of my trees to get big like that.

Does anyone know if Orange Sherbet is also a seedling of PPK ? Thanks,

Simon

Yes, Orange Sherbert is a seedling of PPK.
- Rob

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Re: Lemon Zest Seedling Project
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2014, 10:03:23 AM »
JF - those are shaped different than the NDM we have here.  Ours dont have that hook at the bottom.
Rob
they look different but the owner of this tree plant it from seed in 1982 from the Thai temple. He said it's a NDM from Thailand

There are many NDM varieties, Siatong, Mun, #4 to name a few.   They actually all have numbers c associated with them like #4 for example.  I wonder which one that is...does it taste any different than #4 or "regular" NDM?

I've eaten a good share of NDM # 4 this summer and the taste is very close super sweet and totally fiberless.....I like this one better a lot more flesh to eat.

 

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