Author Topic: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers  (Read 13459 times)

Waiting

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
    • Northern San Joaquin Valley, California
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2015, 05:26:17 PM »
Well if you swear on the quality, then it can only be sour orange from that era. Also highly drought tolerant.
It's making a comeback in Florida as some growers say less effected by greening.  They seem to be discounting the high risk of CTV.

That's interesting. Maybe the greening resistence offsets the CTV risk.

Are almonds a higher value crop than citrus? Other orchards are being replaced with almonds and almonds are being planted in marginal areas, not even fit for grazing. The growers are sinking wells to support their trees. Is the citrus crop not valuable enough to drill wells?

gary

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2015, 05:44:17 PM »
I've worried about the affect on the California citrus industry.  I can see some real problems if the drought continues.

Lots of crops will be affected by the drought. Not just citrus.
Oscar

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2015, 08:10:47 AM »
I see olives going more mainstream in commercial farming in Cali. Much less disease pressure, less maintenance costs, lower water requirements, but a longer time to full scale production. They also live practically forever and there are many even more drought hardy varieties that can be brought in than the normal bunch currently produced(arbequena, koroniki, etc). I really see olives taking over here in FL as well if greening is not brought under control and Yankees quit moving down here to escape the cold gobbling up all the land for their nut to butt housing communities that are popping up all over. Multi-use, high dollar fruit. I throw potassium on mine every other month and call it good.

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2015, 07:02:27 PM »
I see olives going more mainstream in commercial farming in Cali. Much less disease pressure, less maintenance costs, lower water requirements, but a longer time to full scale production. They also live practically forever and there are many even more drought hardy varieties that can be brought in than the normal bunch currently produced(arbequena, koroniki, etc). I really see olives taking over here in FL as well if greening is not brought under control and Yankees quit moving down here to escape the cold gobbling up all the land for their nut to butt housing communities that are popping up all over. Multi-use, high dollar fruit. I throw potassium on mine every other month and call it good.

Same crops that dominate in arid Israel will become main crops in arid California: olives, pomegranate, opuntia cactus, figs, dates, maybe even jujubes.
Oscar

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4814
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2015, 10:27:44 PM »
Just one time, a long time ago, I purchased some opuntia cactus at the supermarket.   It was terrible slimy.  First and Last time I purchased it.  - Millet

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2015, 08:01:09 AM »
Not a bad thing Fruitlovers, as far as I am concerned, just something they will have to get used to. Will increase the demand elsewhere for farmland for the essentials. Maybe will mean here in FL less will be turned into hive communities and will remain more profitable as farmland even if it isn't citrus.

BTW on a side note, got the seeds from you, they looked great, more healthy looking than what I normally get. Hoping to get good a germination rate from them.

nullzero

  • Zone 10a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3772
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2015, 02:23:14 PM »
Just one time, a long time ago, I purchased some opuntia cactus at the supermarket.   It was terrible slimy.  First and Last time I purchased it.  - Millet

Opuntia pads take some getting use to the texture, the taste is on par with most top tier vegetables in my opinion. If you like Okra you will most likely not mind Opuntia pads that are prepared correctly.

As for the fruit, its not comparable to the pads in taste and texture obviously  ;D.
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

Bob407

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
    • Isla de Bieke, PR 12b
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2015, 12:16:51 AM »
Stephen, thanks for the description of the opuntia pads when cooked. I have wanted to prepare these for some time but could never get a good description from others and I didn't necesarilly have faith in the info I had found online. Okra is one of my favorite vegetables and it also isn't slimy when cooked correctly. I bet it would make a good substitute for okra in bhindi masala.
Life is good

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4814
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2015, 12:42:24 PM »
Farmers are still looking for any drop they can get. Giannetto, a California citrus grower said he needs a foot of water per acre just to keep his trees alive and 3 feet of water per acre to produce a crop. He said he got a very limited crop on a few of his orchards last year. He said he does have a little carryover water from last year, but only enough to keep about 30 acres alive.
Nelsen said growers are having to decide which orchard to save and which one to let go. Citrus grower Billy Bennett has decided to let his 10 acres of oranges in Terra Bella die. What water that might be found, will be costly. Giannetto said last year he dug deeply into his savings to pay $1,200 an acre foot. “I’m being asked to come up with $1,330 an acre foot,” he said of this year, “but there’s no water available.” Nelsen said there are 120,000 acres of citrus in the region that will not have any water again this year. The drought has already shown up with smaller fruit size and he is concerned fruit will be hard pressed to get much size next year.
“You need water now, then through the summer you’ve got to have sufficient water for the fruit sizes,” he said.
Many growers are  very critical of the unpopular decision decisions to send water out to the ocean instead to grow food.

BigIslandGrower

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 237
    • USA, Hawaii, Puna 700 ft, 12B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2015, 02:16:50 PM »

There's no shortage of water in California. There's a major shortage of *cheap* water. ..

There's a shortage of water, at current usage levels, in all of the southwest states.  Groundwater has been depleted, river water is pretty much utilized to the max-maybe beyond what it should be- and storage reservoirs are getting low.  In California, 
"..The network of electronic sensors sending in reports from highland locations from the Trinity Alps down to the southern Sierra is showing that statewide, the snowpack is at 9 percent of average — not even half of where it was last year, when it was at its record low..."

So, with the rainy season over for the year and no snow to melt off, California is in big trouble.  Chances of getting lots of rain to replenish those reservoirs in the next 12 months are not promising.

Re:  Ground water and Colorado river
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140819-groundwater-california-drought-aquifers-hidden-crisis/
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:35:54 PM by BigIslandGrower »

buddyguygreen

  • Keeper of Earth
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Zone Creator
    • Citrus Ridge, FL,
    • View Profile
    • Knowledge of the Masters
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2015, 12:35:47 AM »
im reading this as i eat a juicy kiwi from california, the worlds drinking the state dry

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2015, 02:46:14 AM »
Seems the water shortage is going to be a whole lot more disastrous than HLB disease for citrus in California.
Also the USA as a whole will have to rethink its major dependence on dry California as the major supplier of fruits, nuts, and vegetable for the rest of the country.
Oscar

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2015, 08:03:51 AM »
Agreed, which makes the rampant land destruction here for development even more ironic. Right around the corner from me they are about to bulldoze several tens of thousands of acres of farmland for new home developments and bloody low income apartments. We are in a damn rural agricultural area with no real infrastructure, who builds apartments there?

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4814
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »
Navel orange trees are in bloom in the San Joaquin Valley and observers describe the bloom as "good," but farmers say a fourth year of drought and a second year with no surface water deliveries will make it hard to produce a crop. For some, it may be impossible. "It's a heavy bloom this year, which is good," Tulare County citrus grower Matthew Watkins said. "But the trees know what's going on with the drought. They want to fruit and sense the lack of rain." The heavy bloom means there will be fruit, Watkins said, "but the trick will be to keep it on the trees. To do that, we'll have to maintain a lower stress level on the trees, which means water." Blakely said temperatures in the coming week will be critical. "If we're going into a prolonged heat spell, that could put stress on the trees coming right out of bloom," he said. Noting that all Californians are wondering when the current four-year dry spell will end and there are no reliable answers, the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation said last week that it would maintain the "zero" water supply allocation for Central Valley Project agricultural contractors. The California Department of Water Resources was scheduled to hold its monthly snow survey Wednesday, but electronic monitoring showed snowpack levels hovering near a mere 5 percent of average for this time of year. Watkins said the water situation for growers on the east side of the valley is worse this year, because there is no carryover water. Last year's zero allocation was difficult, he said, but farmers had some saved surface water they could use. "Carryover water gave us a little bit of flexibility, but this year there's none," Watkins said. "Districts are trying to find other sources of water, but there's no guarantee they'll find any, even at extremely high prices. People are putting deposits down in case water can be bought, but we don't think there'll be much unless there's some late snowpack. There's just less water this year and we're running out of time." Tulare County citrus grower Larry Peltzer said he's not sure whether he will be able to keep his full ranch in production through the summer. "It doesn't look good," he said. "We're in a surreal state. We've never been in this condition before and it's disheartening."

"We're drilling holes, but we're having a hard time finding water.""We'll be starting where we left off," he said. "The aquifer is stressed and water levels will continue to drop. That will put a lot of pressure on farmers. We've never been in this position before and I can't predict where we'll end up, because I don't know. I just hope we can make it through this year." Peltzer said his family ranch has survived since 1915, but "I don't know if I'll be able to live out my days as a farmer here. I'm not sure we can hang on much longer. "It's frustrating," he said. "I'm just trying to survive. We have families to feed and if we can't produce a commercially viable citrus crop, we have to do something else. This situation is not sustainable."
http://agalert.com/story/?id=8081

Milet
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 11:21:14 AM by Millet »

Waiting

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
    • Northern San Joaquin Valley, California
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2015, 06:51:11 PM »
Jerry Brown imposes mandatory water restrictions

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/us/california-water-restrictions-drought/

Doglips

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
    • Houston TX 9A
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2015, 08:34:45 AM »
Growing Almonds in the desert is just insane.  The number on almonds that can be grown from one gallon of water....    ".9 almonds".
Fracking is a huge consumer of water that becomes unusable after being loaded with all kinds of nasty chemicals, at least almond trees lose it through evaporation/transpiration.
Water is going to be insanely expensive in California.  People will move away, not if but when.
Everybody in the US is going to be experiencing fruit and veg sticker shock.
The Great Lakes are starting to look pretty good, land is cheap in Detroit (no Detroit rants please).

Waiting

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
    • Northern San Joaquin Valley, California
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2015, 06:34:53 PM »
Disregarding it's other issues, Detroit's winters are just not for me. I'm looking in Oregon so I'll have a place to go when California tells me I'm only allowed one three-minute shower once a week.

gary

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2015, 08:00:57 AM »
I'd look at northern New Mexico or Arizona, especially if you want to continue with fruit trees. I hear its pretty nice in those areas, that and supposedly sparsely populated which is a big plus in my book. A lot of refugees from Cali are going to swamp Oregon, Colorado, and Washington and possibly Nevada.

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2015, 08:10:45 AM »
I'd look at northern New Mexico or Arizona, especially if you want to continue with fruit trees. I hear its pretty nice in those areas, that and supposedly sparsely populated which is a big plus in my book. A lot of refugees from Cali are going to swamp Oregon, Colorado, and Washington and possibly Nevada.

Most of Nevada and Arizona are even more arid than California. So why would they move there?  ???
Oscar

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2015, 10:16:47 AM »
I saw a lot of greenery in the more mountainous(I am from FL and Coastal GA, if it has an incline its a mountain) areas in northern and southern AZ. I have been to Central AZ as well but despite what google maps says I didn't see much greenery. But then again I guess those relative oasis areas in the N and S are pretty much bought up already. I know little about Nevada, I figured it was similar to Northern AZ and NM, but just looked at a map, yeah aside from some greenery in central NV not near anything, that state pretty much sucks wind. Some of the areas I saw in AZ that I liked did have warning signs on the side of the road saying they were known bandit areas and law enforcement would be unable to respond in a timely manner, so maybe not there. CO has screwy politics, however that might be an attraction for many in CA. UT is a beautiful state to live in as long as you are either Mormon or do not have kids that plan on participating in school sports.

That said, I wouldn't move to any of those states, I like tall trees too much and gun rights and hate the desert. Nice to visit in order to better appreciate the niceties we have on the east coast though. I'll take a hurricane risk every blue moon over sand storms any day. But for people being forced out of the state due to mismanagement of resources and not wanting to move across the country, but still avoid the frigid north, your options are limited.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:18:31 AM by Tropheus76 »

BigIslandGrower

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 237
    • USA, Hawaii, Puna 700 ft, 12B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2015, 03:25:50 PM »
Growing Almonds in the desert is just insane.  The number on almonds that can be grown from one gallon of water....    ".9 almonds".

Yes, it's crazy.  And, California produces 80% of the world's almonds.  Should be a golden opportunity for another region of the world to take over this production.

Yorgos

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • USA, Houston, Texas USDA zone 9a
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2015, 04:24:09 PM »
An average golf course in Amerca uses 312,000 gallons of water PER DAY (according to an article in CNN)! That's 66 million gallons during non winter period (~214 days) for ONE golf course.
I imagine in California, Arizona and other areas in the arid American Southwest its a lot higher. (I also saw numbers from 100,000 to 1 million gallons/week so I am sure there is a wide variation betwen couses and their locations).
Add all the insecticides and herbicides needed to mainain a pristine course and golf is one ecological disaster in our midst.
 
Near NRG Stadium, Houston Texas. USDA zone 9a

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2015, 10:08:21 PM »
I guess they felt having tourists and movie stars flying in to play golf was more important than America's food supply and drinking water for its people.

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4814
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2015, 11:15:47 AM »
....Joel Nelsen, president of Exeter-based California Citrus Mutual, said the allocations disproportionately burden the south San Joaquin Delta.

“Everything and everybody else gets something,” Nelsen said in a news release. “Two years in a row zero water allocation is the message, while other parties receive an allocation for farming, the environment or municipal needs. That is the definition of balance by federal decision makers, which questions how they define balance.”

“We have to be the only state in the nation and the only nation on earth establishing policies that destroys the production of food,” Nelsen said, referring to pumping restrictions premised on protection of delta smelt.....

http://www.thepacker.com/news/water-allocation-leaves-california-growers-dry

Millet
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 11:22:20 AM by Millet »

Waiting

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
    • Northern San Joaquin Valley, California
    • View Profile
Re: No Water This Year Available For California Citrus Growers
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2015, 06:36:53 PM »
It's not just the smelt that is being protected, it's the whole Delta ecosystem. Why do farmers think they are entitled to water from a completely different watershed 150 miles away? Big corporate farms, use all of the water from their watershed and it's not enough, they want everybody elses's, too.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk