Author Topic: Sumo Seedling (Read 10916 times)

JustJoshinya · « **on:** May 01, 2015, 07:49:04 PM »

I have been growing out a sumo mandarin seed for the past 3 months 1 seed sent up 3 sprouts 2 larger ones and 1 smaller one, both the larger seedlings stopped growing and slowly declined after about the first month. Those 2 died, the smaller seedling has continued to grow but is struggling it started losing chlorophyll and stopped top growth. When i repotted it the roots had new white growth tips so i repotted and gave it a good watering. i use distilled water at pH of like 5.5-6 after i put the nutrients in it. the soil i use for it was cactus/palm/citrus mix and i added in perlite. i thought maybe it was losing chlorophyll due to inadequate light levels so i moved it out onto the patio into some direct sunlight for a few hours of the day. it gets watered about 1 time a week a deep watering. this seedling is the smallest of the 3 and i believe to be the zygotic seedling but who knows really. here are some pictures of its development, wondering if you guys think i should be doing something different or just keep doing what im doing and see if it improves and sends out new growth.

fyliu · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2015, 08:46:34 PM »

Thanks for posting your experience. Sounds like you're right about it being the non-clone. Can't be sure unless you pulled apart the seedlings to find out. Hopefully its quality is similar to the parent.

I find that scales find their way to my potted plants in general, without any visible ant activity. Good to check once in a while.
The other thing is overwatering for potted plants but it doesn't look like that's happening to you.

Millet · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2015, 11:08:51 PM »

Making recommendations,whether right or wrong, can bring either praise or condemnation depending on how the plants does. That said, I am wondering if the tree is actually being under watered and therefore also underfed. Container grown citrus trees have never been killed or hurt by over watering. What actually damages or kills the tree is the lack of root zone oxygen, because the water fills all the air pours in the medium. However, the actual culprit causing the lack of oxygen is not the water but a medium with insufficient drainage. Some time back I conducted two experiments. Using a well draining medium with good soil aeration, I planted two different citrus cultivars. I watered one tree every day for two months, and the second tree received water twice every day for the same period of time.. At the end of the experiment both trees were strong vibrant healthy plants, and had put on good growth. For plants, it is the water stream that delivers nutrients, proteins, hormones to all parts of the plant. Cactus/palm/citrus mix already has good drainage, and with the addition of extra perlite the drainage (thus soil aeration) should be outstanding, and probably too much so. In the time that you have been growing your seedling, it should have put on more growth than it has. Anyway, good luck to you and your seedling. I know it is an important tree for you, especially as it is a Dekopon (Sumo) - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2015, 07:07:52 AM »

Thank you guys both for the comments and the advice, i am starting to believe that i may be underwatering it for fear of overwatering it i think i will try and add an extra watering in between my regular/usual habits. Thanks Milet and Fyliu.

Millet · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2015, 01:17:49 PM »

A very frequent killer of young seedling is Rhizoctonia solani also known as "damping-off" or "stem rot". A fungi that attacks the plant at the bottom of the stem directly at the soil surface. The fungus rapidly populates in cool damp conditions. To avoid this problem and other common ailments be sure to water your seedling only in the morning and then straight away set the tree in direct sunlight so the surface of the soil and the tree's stem quickly dries. Doing so will save you and your seedling a lot of common problems. - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2015, 02:48:36 PM »

Also very good to know Millet i actually have been watering my seedling once a week at NIGHT thinking that it sitting in the moist soil out of heat and light would allow it to more efficiently absorb the water, i will begin watering it in the morning and letting it sit in the direct sunlight, thank you for the interesting information. ive always heard of "damping-off" but i never did the research or realized it was a fungi related to watering i just assume when i heard damping off that it was a natural process in which some of the weaker seedlings would naturally die off. im doing my research on this right now.

thanks
-Josh

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2015, 05:29:16 PM »

Here is an update on my sumo mandarin seedling, the growth is slow going but is finally putting out some decent sized leaves which is helping to add new growth, its been very hot and sunny these past weeks and it has put out some solid growth. it gets plenty of direct sunshine for about 8 hours a day but it is SO SLOW GROWING

Millet · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2015, 04:05:15 PM »

From reading your posts I see you planted your citrus seeds last February, seven months ago. By this time your seedling should be 6 to 8 inches tall, or even taller. What fertilizer are you using,and what is the percent nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium it contains plus if the fertilizer contains trace minerals. How much do you apply with each fertilizing, and how often do you fertilize the tree? Looking at the pictures you posted your tree does not have the dark green coloration, that a well fertilized tree should have. - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2015, 08:45:59 PM »

Yes i planted this seed February 1st, i feed this tree how i feed my other container citrus, i use General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow 7-4-10 and ive been feeding mixing it per the directions for "seedlings and orchids" 1/2tsp per Gallon, i also use Floralicious plus as a trace additive mixed per its directions for half strength "seedling" feedings. should i start mixing them per the general grow at 1tsp per gallon? should i switch to a dry fertilizer? i have some vigoro citrus and avocado dry fertilizer. the 4 biggest leaves just grow over the past three weeks so they are still young/growing leaves. but i do agree that this seedling should have grown bigger than it has in 7 months ive been diligent with my waterings/light requirements maybe i need to fertilize it more

Millet · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:26:04 PM »

Citrus are heavy feeders requiring more nutrition than many other plants. Citrus absorb nutrients through their roots in the ratio of 5-1-3, meaning for every 5 parts nitrogen the tree absorbs, it will also absorb 1 part of phosphorous, and 3 parts potassium. Therefore, you can see that a citrus tree requires very little phosphorus, but higher levels of both nitrogen and potassium. Although your fertilizer 7-4-10 is not the perfect ratio, but it is also not all that bad fertilizer, but would be a much better fertilizer for a flowering plant rather then a tree. That is why the phosphorus percent is so high. It is the nitrogen portion that provides most of a citrus trees growth, and should be the highest number of a citrus fertilizer's formula. You are under feeding the tree, therefore it does not have the energy to put on the growth that it is capable of. I would feed a young seeding at approximately 150 PPM nitrogen. The best to you and your tree. - Millet.

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2015, 11:53:37 PM »

Thank you very much for the reply i will look for a fertilizer with a higher ratio of nitrogen so that i will no longer be underfeeding it an will update in a month or so after the new fertilizers

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2015, 11:05:58 PM »

Just updating my growth on my sumo mandarin i switched to a fertilizer higher in nitrogen than the one i was using and the seedling sent out some solid growth in the last month i believe the slow growing i was experiencing was due to a fertilizer with insufficient nitrogen in it and it was essentially being underfed. Glad i switched fertilizers and it is flushing new growth still currently and should have quite a bit more growth before the end of the season. thank you for the suggestion millet it proved to help me out a bunch.

-Josh

Millet · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2015, 10:02:27 AM »

Here is a message that I received from JustJoshinya concerning California and the Dekopon citrus tree(aka Sumo, Shiranui).

Hey millet i was talking with someone from the CCPP about nucellar/zygotic seedlings trying to figure out if i had a nucellar sumo or a zygotic seedling and he mentioned the first 2 seedlings the seed sent up were most likely 99% nucellar and that the last small embryo that i still have still has about a 50% of being nucellar but i wont know until it fruits and even then its no guarantee. but thats not what i was messaging for he told me that i will be able to get "Shiranui" budwood from the CCPP very soon he said "The good news, CCPP will release the Shiranui (public name for Sumo/Dekopan) at beginning of the 2016 year. Everyone can request it." just giving ya an update in case you wanted to make an update topic for those in CA that want shiranui but up until now have been SOL -Josh

Thank you Josh for this information.

Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2016, 05:38:56 PM »

Just updating some pictures of the progress it is flushing pretty good this past month and this week it appears it will send out another 4-5 branches this will be a dense little tree when it fills in. Changing my watering habits and fertilizing habits has brought more growth in the past 3 months than in the first 9.

fyliu · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2016, 01:25:05 AM »

Wow. It's looking very good!

simon_grow · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2016, 10:03:50 PM »

Shotgun, I call dibs on the first scion, lol! Congrats, I hope you get the real Dekopon even though it is being released.

Simon

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #16 on:** February 29, 2016, 03:33:38 AM »

I've already placed an order for the shiranui through the CCPP but it keeps getting pushed back due to low supply but eventually i will get some, i believe even though this is the 3rd and last embryo to emerge from a single seed that it is most likely a clone, as it has little thorns and such low vigor from what i have read and researched of dekopons they are not the most vigorous trees on their own roots and the leaf shape and structure leads me to believe it is a nucellar seedling but on the off slim chance it is a zygotic seedling it still has a high probability of being a sumoXsumo cross rather than a sumoX??? cross so either way im probably going to get a good dekopon tree out of this and in the lesser chance of it being a mystery cross the world needs diversification so i will see it through it really is growing quite nice now and will be a small compact DENSE little tree every node on the tree is pushing out a new bud so i will have plenty of branches.

mksmth · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2016, 05:12:25 PM »

i had a dekopon seedling that never grew more than about 6 inches total in 2 years. I fed it the same as all my other trees. I eventually tossed it when i bought a grafted tree last april.

Mike

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2016, 05:44:03 PM »

1 month later its flushing good, although the sun is bright and burns some of the new leaves at the very tip but its still doing good and growing steady now.

Millet · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2016, 07:13:03 PM »

JustJoshinya, congratulations on the great success that you are having with your tree. Keep up the good work. A comment if I may: I do not believe that the leaf tip burn is due to the sun. It is more likely that the soluble salts are building up in the growing medium. If you have not flushed out the container with clean clear water in a while, it would be good to do so. Also the next time the soil dries down a bit you might slip the tree out of the container and examine the roots. Simply turn the container over and give the the bottom (now pointing up) a sharp slap and the tree should slip out. If the tree's root system has reached the container rim and has signs of beginning to circle, transplant the tree into a new container that is 2-inches wider. Lastly, I noticed your tree is growing in a black container. Black containers when placed outside directly in the sun's rays can VERY quickly reach temperatures of 110-F or higher quickly. Such temperatures can kill the roots growing near the containers edge. It would be wise to either plaint the container white, or wrap it in aluminum foil. If you have a soil thermometer place it 1-inch inside the container's rim. That way you can keep an eye on what the mediums temperature is, and can make any adjustments necessary. On small containers I sometimes place another object between the container and the sunlight to keep the roots from becoming dangerously hot. . Whatever, don't shade the foliage. - Good growing, wishing you and your tree a long healthy life. - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #20 on:** April 07, 2016, 07:11:19 PM »

Just an update i repotted my seedling and the roots looked healthy and the tree is doing good new growth all the time it was a little rainy today but thought id grab a quick picture of it in its new pot.

Millet · « **Reply #21 on:** April 07, 2016, 08:44:37 PM »

Your tree is coming along nicely - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2016, 04:37:53 PM »

Just got a new phone thought id take a few new pics and post from my new phone the pictures should be better quality. its growing well not tall but widening out and pushing many small branches within.

Millet · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2016, 09:22:44 PM »

I see it also has a new flush of growth coming on. It looks very healthy. Congratulations. - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #24 on:** July 15, 2016, 05:03:22 PM »

current status, had to move the tree to the back patio due to heat and light the leaves were burning and drying, it was flushing new growth and the new growth would be brown/black by the time i got home from work iwas about 100+ and sun for 8+ hours directly so i moved to my shaded patio which gets sun in the AM only i try and move it back to direct sun around 3pm so it gets sunset sun for about3 hours also.

Millet · « **Reply #25 on:** July 15, 2016, 09:42:27 PM »

Seems to be coming along nicely. Are you checking the root system to insure he roots have not started circling around and around inside the container walls? If so it needs to be up potted. - Millet

JustJoshinya · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2017, 11:37:55 PM »

just updating my sumo seedling, doing really well and putting on solid growth, It has grown continuously during this fall and winter months, and is currently flsuhing again i keep waiting for it to stop flushing to up-pot it but it just wont stop lol here are some updated pictures, dont mind the water spots on the leaves it rained yesterday and my roomate was sanding some cabinets and it got sawdust on my tree lol i sprayed it down after i took the pictures.

fyliu · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2017, 02:23:29 AM »

that's pretty good sized and nice branching.

mrtexas · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2017, 11:49:45 AM »

Quote from: JustJoshinya on February 29, 2016, 03:33:38 AM

I've already placed an order for the shiranui through the CCPP but it keeps getting pushed back due to low supply but eventually i will get some, i believe even though this is the 3rd and last embryo to emerge from a single seed that it is most likely a clone, as it has little thorns and such low vigor from what i have read and researched of dekopons they are not the most vigorous trees on their own roots and the leaf shape and structure leads me to believe it is a nucellar seedling but on the off slim chance it is a zygotic seedling it still has a high probability of being a sumoXsumo cross rather than a sumoX??? cross so either way im probably going to get a good dekopon tree out of this and in the lesser chance of it being a mystery cross the world needs diversification so i will see it through it really is growing quite nice now and will be a small compact DENSE little tree every node on the tree is pushing out a new bud so i will have plenty of branches.

The dekopan seedlings I have grown out have been very vigorous. I got seedling dekopan budwood from a friend and grafted it to swingle rootstock. My sugar belle seedlings on swingle are growing like a weed also. Since dekopan budwood is out growing out seedlings is not worth the trouble IMHO. I gave all mine away.

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Author Topic: Sumo Seedling (Read 10916 times)