Author Topic: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair  (Read 15529 times)

Mike T

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 03:57:00 PM »
No mammeys for me but I should have bought one called pontin last year now I know that it was really a pantin.The spelling mistake has lived on for 25 years and it looks like it is officially pontin here now.I prefer really good ross and canistels and I'm too hot for lucuma and greens.Your right I should have one.They are so cheap in the market (less than $1/lb) I have not grown one.

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 04:23:05 PM »
Its been a year since I had the firstf ruits from my Kensington Pride tree.  In looking at the fruit pictured here by MikeT, I am beginning to suspect that we are talking about different cultivars.  I do not remember mine having any cleft at all and they certainly didn't color up as pictured,  I seem to remember mine being much more rounded in shape.  Then again, it was a year ago and my memory is not necessarily to be relied upon. I'll be on the look out next year for a more conclusive decription of my KP fruits.

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fruitlovers

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2012, 05:50:30 PM »
My guess is that, as Mike pointed out in another thread, selective strains, land races of KP, are continuously selected in Australia. But Mike also said they are never named. So how is anyone else supposed to know if they have the best and latest version of KP?
I'm also guessing that Australians are hugely biased over KP, as they associate it as THE Australian mango. Must have something to do with national pride, patriotic duty, and all that stuff! I really can't see any ONE cultivar of mango remaining as the unchallenged best for a whole century in any other country!
Oscar

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 06:19:54 PM »
kp are not as uniformly pretty as in mikes pics. they are not at all resistant to disease and perform best in the dry tropics, and here when we get on the drought cycle. there are a number of named groups or varieties, like the old standard Bowen Special, Mckay KP (Dwarf), Alison Red (Dwarf) KP, Bambaroo and a few others. The main changes are the blush and the habit of the tree. The fruit has only minor and very subtle changes in flavour. They are consistently good over a huge range of eastern Australia in dry years. In wet years they are far fewer. I think the northern strains fruit better in wet conditions as they seem to still produce huge amounts of fruit in the wet - maybe the backyard variety that struggles here in wet years is from the Burdekin or somewhere like that? Anyhow, its a great supermarket/market mango. Others have been introduced and bred which are far more appealing to consumers (R2E2, Honey Gold, hAYDEN, Atalulfo, Tommy Atkins, Calypso), but many of these are fast becoming collectors trees for folks who just want to keep the 'bimbo' mango genes alive. Kent and keitt are always a huge disappointment after KP season is finished. Others like banana, King Thai (Maha), Kwan, NDM, etc may be as good or better than KP, but in terms of availability, length of season and flavour put together, no mango will go near the kp for at least 2-3 decades here.

I doubt too many of the new floridian mangoes will make it over here, as there seems to be a new 'drop' every few weeks and all the hype sounds kinda like 30 somethings lining up to buy the freshest new nike kicks. The new OTT mango seems to sum the situation up pretty well.  ;D

Tropicdude

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 07:54:46 PM »
There are many reasons why KP would be attractive to commercial growers, Shape, Color, Shelf Life, Good taste.

But I think that maybe one of the reasons its preferred by so many in Australia is because its what people have grew up on.  to consumers, the KP is what a mango should taste like to them.  other varieties may be considered too sweet, too small, not colorful, Insipid, too strong, because they are comparing them to KP.

Many articles have been written on this subject, Its hard to introduce new fruits into a country that is not familiar with them, it takes decades to get new fruits to become popular.  its also difficult to introduce new varieties of fruits to people that have grown up with something they already love.

I have not tried a KP yet, I would love to have one, and would even like to get a tree someday, I wouldn't be surprised that my climate and soil will give them a different flavor than those in Florida .

This whole situation reminds me of the Alphonso, which has been billed as the best mango in the world by many, yet from comments of those in Fla that have tried them, its just a so so mango. how can this be?  is the Alphonso to blame? peoples preference in taste? climate? soil? national pride?.




« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:33:52 PM by Tropicdude »
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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2012, 08:09:58 PM »
Maybe KP is an excellent mango if grown in australian soil. I know Australia has many varieties of soils, but a lot of them are from old pre-historic volcanic activity.

Here in italy KP is the main variety grown on our limited commercial scale. I think it is delicious, still i haven't tasted many other mangos, so i don't know if my opinion counts.
Interestigly enough, the soils where it is grown here are volcanic in origin (being grown mainly in sicily). And moreover, we have a mediterranean climate, wich means that our KP receive a relatively low amount of water during the growt of the fruit (our wet season is during our cold season, from october to april).
While im pretty sure i have always encounteres just KP mango, i never saw any red blush on them (but this may be normal on grocery store fruits).
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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2012, 08:21:09 PM »
kp are not as uniformly pretty as in mikes pics. they are not at all resistant to disease and perform best in the dry tropics, and here when we get on the drought cycle. there are a number of named groups or varieties, like the old standard Bowen Special, Mckay KP (Dwarf), Alison Red (Dwarf) KP, Bambaroo and a few others. The main changes are the blush and the habit of the tree. The fruit has only minor and very subtle changes in flavour. They are consistently good over a huge range of eastern Australia in dry years. In wet years they are far fewer. I think the northern strains fruit better in wet conditions as they seem to still produce huge amounts of fruit in the wet - maybe the backyard variety that struggles here in wet years is from the Burdekin or somewhere like that? Anyhow, its a great supermarket/market mango. Others have been introduced and bred which are far more appealing to consumers (R2E2, Honey Gold, hAYDEN, Atalulfo, Tommy Atkins, Calypso), but many of these are fast becoming collectors trees for folks who just want to keep the 'bimbo' mango genes alive. Kent and keitt are always a huge disappointment after KP season is finished. Others like banana, King Thai (Maha), Kwan, NDM, etc may be as good or better than KP, but in terms of availability, length of season and flavour put together, no mango will go near the kp for at least 2-3 decades here.

I doubt too many of the new floridian mangoes will make it over here, as there seems to be a new 'drop' every few weeks and all the hype sounds kinda like 30 somethings lining up to buy the freshest new nike kicks. The new OTT mango seems to sum the situation up pretty well.  ;D

Considering that there are well over 1000 cultivars of mangos already existing, and many new ones cropping up all the time, what is your prediction based on, that there will be no new mango will go near KP for the next 20-30 years? I would guess that you are right, but that it's not based on quality of mangos, only by preordained preference by Australians for the KP above all others. Seems like your comment proves my point.
The situation in Australia and Florida are seemingly too opposite extremes. In Australia people are assured that KP is the best and will be the best maybe for all eternity? On the other extreme the Floridians are sure that a new better cultivar is just around the corner, and it seems to me that almost every single seedling gets a fabulous new name, and for a short time has hopes to be the new contending best taste champion.
Oscar

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2012, 09:16:01 PM »
TD you are one happen' dude and are probably on the money again.Oscar I fear I am one of the zombies and just don't know it.I'll just have to blunder on in a sea of other afflicted folk never knowing any better.BMc has more mango knowledge firepower and that was an incisive commentary.Honey Gold is actually a Bowen Special daughter that was just really different from all the rest of the KP seedlings on the farm thus earning its own cv stripes.When they go to market it doesn't matter what variation they are they all become Bowen or KP to cash in on the name.

FloridaGreenMan

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2012, 09:57:45 PM »
If you ask the average person in Florida what their favorite mango is, if they know of one, they will probably say Haden. That's because it's the only cultivar they have heard of or tasted.  At our trees sales, loads of people want Haden for the same reason even though we also have at least 150 cultivars available. The KP is probably a good mango in Australia but if your folks had the opportunity to try other good cultivars, the odds are that the KP would not fare as well. Could also be an "Aussie pride" food like Vegemite!         
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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2012, 10:29:08 PM »
If you ask the average person in Florida what their favorite mango is, if they know of one, they will probably say Haden. That's because it's the only cultivar they have heard of or tasted.  At our trees sales, loads of people want Haden for the same reason even though we also have at least 150 cultivars available. The KP is probably a good mango in Australia but if your folks had the opportunity to try other good cultivars, the odds are that the KP would not fare as well. Could also be an "Aussie pride" food like Vegemite!         

Exactly same situation here. If you ask 100 people what their favorite type of mango is almost all will say Haden. When you ask them their second favorite type they will get a blank look on their face, because that is the only type they know. Maybe a very few will also know about Keitt or Rapoza. So as with KP i predict that Haden will continue to be considred the "best" type, ie the only type, here for another 2 or 3 decades. But i thought the favorite mango in Florida was Tommy Atkins??
Oscar

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2012, 10:50:16 PM »
in terms of availability, length of season and flavour put together, no mango will go near the kp for at least 2-3 decades here.


Considering that there are well over 1000 cultivars of mangos already existing, and many new ones cropping up all the time, what is your prediction based on, that there will be no new mango will go near KP for the next 20-30 years? I would guess that you are right, but that it's not based on quality of mangos, only by preordained preference by Australians for the KP above all others. Seems like your comment proves my point.
The situation in Australia and Florida are seemingly too opposite extremes. In Australia people are assured that KP is the best and will be the best maybe for all eternity? On the other extreme the Floridians are sure that a new better cultivar is just around the corner, and it seems to me that almost every single seedling gets a fabulous new name, and for a short time has hopes to be the new contending best taste champion.

Its based on a number of factors. The quality of mango, which may not be the best, but its pretty damn good - we dont have to struggle with a mass planted commercial mango full of fibre or without flavour. The adaptabillity of the mango, growing from Darwin to Sydney, which gives it a super long season. The amount of trees in-ground - I'd hazzard a guess our KP plantings alone would equal all mangoes in ground in Florida, probably double that. The fact the seeds grow true to type making it easily sourced and cheap to grow. The cost of the mango - which is about 50c each average in peak season. All of those reasons have made it entrenched here and 2-3 decades is a conservative estimate of the time it would take for another super mango to be identified, mass planted, accepted and surpass the KP as the mango of choice and commerce. It could well be another 100 years before another variety takes its spot.  8)

Mike T

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2012, 10:50:21 PM »
Most Australians don't know varieties well just a few especially 'bowens' and they don't know it is Australian.I am not the first to take an attractive,flashy floridian home that smells nice and is full of promise only to find it doesn't deliver.There is no pride thing going on, vegemite taste terrible and R2E2 is a bad mango.What is different in Asia as well as here is that the hydrocarbon taint doesn't fly.Maybe if early exposure to KP's have left my flavor compass spinning and left me with no mango mojo I am not in a position to judge.I think you are pretty correct oscar.

BMc

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2012, 10:54:18 PM »
Could also be an "Aussie pride" food like Vegemite!         

No, its the opposite of Vegemite. We wheel out the Vegemite for the tourists who sample it with disgust. Much like the Japanese with Natto. With KPs on the other hand, we keep all the good ones and send you all turpentines, bush bombs and stringies.  :P

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2012, 06:54:02 AM »
If you ask the average person in Florida what their favorite mango is, if they know of one, they will probably say Haden. That's because it's the only cultivar they have heard of or tasted.  At our trees sales, loads of people want Haden for the same reason even though we also have at least 150 cultivars available. The KP is probably a good mango in Australia but if your folks had the opportunity to try other good cultivars, the odds are that the KP would not fare as well. Could also be an "Aussie pride" food like Vegemite!         

Exactly same situation here. If you ask 100 people what their favorite type of mango is almost all will say Haden. When you ask them their second favorite type they will get a blank look on their face, because that is the only type they know. Maybe a very few will also know about Keitt or Rapoza. So as with KP i predict that Haden will continue to be considred the "best" type, ie the only type, here for another 2 or 3 decades. But i thought the favorite mango in Florida was Tommy Atkins??

Haden is the most well known but Tommy Atkins is probably the next in line! 
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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2012, 10:08:57 AM »
No, its the opposite of Vegemite. We wheel out the Vegemite for the tourists who sample it with disgust.  :P

Not sure if I should take that as a compliment or an insult....I like Vegemite!  :) ;)  And I have developed an addiction to Tim Tam's, but that's another story.   ;D

Haden is the most well known but Tommy Atkins is probably the next in line! 

I'm going to do something I rarely do - give Fairchild Gardens some props.  With their International Mango Festival, they have made different variety names a lot more common these days.  I'm willing to bet that names like 'Angie', 'Edward', 'Nam Doc Mai' or even 'Rosigold' would be more recognizable to the general public in South Florida than 'Tommy Atkins', which has probably been sampled by more people due to its popularity among international commercial growers and major supermarkets. In a good year I'd say TA is a pretty good tasting mango - too bad those good years are few and far between.

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2012, 12:00:42 AM »
I just had a look at the Pine Island mango variety viewer and saw this rather amusing line: 'This heavy bearing medium sized tree grows to an average height of 15 - 25'.'
Perhaps they have a dwarf KP? or they left out 'by their third year'? They'll grow bigger than a two storey home in no time.  :o

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2012, 12:07:11 AM »
BMc I think it is just a mistake and they forgot to convert metres to feet.It should be 50 to 80 feet.

Tim

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2012, 01:32:27 AM »
lmao

BMc I think it is just a mistake and they forgot to convert metres to feet.It should be 50 to 80 feet.
Tim

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 02:08:49 AM »
Due to the popularity of KP here, many people think mango growing is for people who want only one tree in their yard - even on acreage  :'( ;D

Mike T

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 02:30:30 AM »



Tim maybe not as arrogant as it would seem.The 72 footer above near Mackay was measured and it is nothing exceptional.

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2012, 03:11:25 AM »
Are you 2 talking about grafted or seedling KP's getting that large? Seedlings will ofcourse get larger than grafted trees. PIN is probably talking about grafted trees. But they're still under estimating the size.
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Mike T

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2012, 03:28:27 AM »
Oscar that is probably right and it did not occur to me as they are the only type around here that is usually seed grown.Grafted ones still get really big.

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2012, 04:16:24 AM »
Oscar that is probably right and it did not occur to me as they are the only type around here that is usually seed grown.Grafted ones still get really big.

Yes the grafts may get big, but i've never seen a graft get to 72 ft.
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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2012, 05:38:09 AM »
Oscar somewhere between 25 and 72 feet might be right.Greengold is a KP seedling that was not true to type and bowen is another name for KP.This is daleys nursery in the subtropics range of mangoes,
http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/fruit%20pages/mango.htm

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Re: Kensington Pride, it isn't fair
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2012, 06:36:14 AM »
Oscar somewhere between 25 and 72 feet might be right.Greengold is a KP seedling that was not true to type and bowen is another name for KP.This is daleys nursery in the subtropics range of mangoes,
http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/fruit%20pages/mango.htm

Pretty good selection considering every Australian seems convinced KP is the best mango ever invented!  ;)
Oscar