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Author Topic: Satsuma cuttings  (Read 3524 times)

Pancrazio

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Satsuma cuttings
« on: June 01, 2016, 09:59:43 PM »
Has anyone experience in reproducing satsuma by cuttings? How they do on own roots?
I have had great success in getting citron and lime from cuttings, and i was wondering if can hope to achieve a good plant easily with this method even for satsumas.
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Tom

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 10:35:28 AM »
I've read that a small but clear majority of Meyer Lemon trees are grown as cuttings. I think the percentage was about 70%. There are plenty budded or grafted for the dwarfing effects of a different rootstock. I've read about poor results trying to root satsuma but I have no personal experience. I've been told it's difficult to graft Xie Shan and Kishu for example. I guess it makes sense that they would also be hard grow from cuttings. Of course some people with lots of experience and the right set up would have better success. I eagerly await more information on your question ! Tom

Pancrazio

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 11:18:06 AM »
Thank you for your input Tom.
I have been trying to graft miyagawa on FD for quite some time now. This year i have had my first 2 successes but due to some dumb planning i lost both of them.
Grafting on FD seems doable, but of course satsuma on own roots would have a distinct advantage in colder climates.
The fact that even in japan they are usually grafted seems to suggest that they don't behave well on own roots, but one never knows, and home growing is a little different from commercial orchards.
Let's see if we can get some more input.

Edit:typos
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 09:32:46 PM by Pancrazio »
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Millet

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Ilya11

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2016, 04:30:13 AM »
Very strange  warning at the end of this article:

Satsuma branches have thorns, so be cautious when handling them

I have never seen thorns in satsumas.
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                       Ilya

Tom

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2016, 09:31:04 AM »
Very nice catch Ilya11! I don't see a date on the article and I agree with you about no thorns on Satsumas. Maybe a proof reader got confused knowing that some citrus has thorns. Great article though. I wonder if hoosierquilt knows the author. Tom

Pancrazio

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2016, 03:48:30 PM »
Well, apparently now it's the best moment to root some cuttings of satsuma, so i'm going to take some and will report on results. Thank you Millet for that suggestion.
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Pancrazio

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2016, 04:39:31 PM »
Some of them rotted, but some other are pushing out new growth, so i'm going to assume they did take.
So, yes, satsuma can be reproduced by cuttings.
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Millet

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 05:23:49 PM »
 Pancrazio about the cuttings that rotted.  Did you absolutely insure that every item used in the rooting process was sterile. including the tools used, the container, rooting medium, your hands, the bud stick and the rooting compound.  Also the purer the water the higher the percentage of rooting.  For small rooting jobs I use either distilled water or rain water collected in a sterile container. - Millet

vanman

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2016, 05:53:13 PM »
I hate to rain on your parade, but if you look at justjoshinya and my experience almost all the cuttings look great initially.  They may bud out and stay green for 2-3 months or more but most have died.  In fact just now I pulled up my cuttings from Dec that died back.  Not a single root to be found.  Out of 15 rootings, just one rooted, a Tahitian pomelo. 

However, all is not lost.  Arctic Frost and Orange Frost satsumas are sold as on their own root stock.  Maybe some willow tea may help. 

Good luck.  Van

Pancrazio

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2016, 07:20:43 PM »
Well, since i sacrificed just a twig to this small experiment, even if things don't work out, no damage is done!  ;)
Similar twigs and similar methods have given me good results on limes and citron, but then again with that plants i was working at the end of winter and also they are well known "easily rootable" citrus.
At this point i just have to hold and see how things develop. I think that will be pretty easy to see if they have actually rooted when i'll remove the cover, because in the middle of summer I imagine that a twig without root will wither!

For sure having a satsuma on own roots seems convenient for someone growing it outside of the "comfort zone".  ;)
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Pancrazio

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2016, 04:53:26 PM »
Hey guys, i don't know if i did something wrong, or what but i can tell you for sure that my experiment did not brought any rooted scions to my collection: yep; they didn't root.

It was a badly executed lazy effort, but same procedure with lime and citron di produce take with 80% success rate so i'm going to assume that satsuma are, at very least way harder to root than lime and citron.
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Millet

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2016, 09:58:25 PM »
There is much more to the propagation of cuttings than just getting roots to form. IT'S ALL ABOUT ENERGY (CARBOHYDRATES). If you start with week cuttings that contain little energy, problems will abound.  Do not skimp on quality of the ingredients for the rooting medium.   Oxygen is necessary for root respiration at all times, but oxygen plays an even more critical role in the initiation of new roots on a cutting.  For rooting of cuttings, drainable pore space in the medium should be 45% to 50%.  Once the cuttings has rooted and are to be transplanted to grow on, the  drainable pore space in the medium in a one or three gallon container should be about 20% to 25%. Keep temperatures in the propagation area in the range of 75-F to 100-F. Cells cannot function and divide without energy.  Energy for initial root production must come from the parent plant and already be present in the cutting to be selected. But, as soon as the first new root is little more than a bump on the base of the cutting, it can begin absorbing nutrients and support leaf functions and accelerate energy production. Provide nutrition, light, and other growing conditions favorable for the plant from the time cuttings are stuck. If you provide nutrients (272-grams 18-6-12 Osmocote (NO EXCEPTIONS), and 49 grams good trace mineral mix such as STEM per cubic foot of propagation medium) light, water, space, etc. to cuttings they will respond much more rapidly than you are likely to expect.  Osmocote 18-6-12 more nearly coincides with the root development of the cutting and stimulates the subsequent growth of nearly all species if some other factor is not restricting growth.  Root zone aeration is much better in deeper containers, therefore, use NO container with a depth less than 3.5 inches.  The dissolved minerals in the water used to mist cuttings can have a PROFOUND influence on rooting and subsequent growth.  High sodium and high bicarbonates are the most common culprits. In general, the lower the mineral content of the misting water, the better cuttings root. Timely transplanting into larger containers to grow on is very important.  Transplant just as soon as the cutting has sufficient roots to hold the mass together.  A little early is better than being late. It is important to keep a thin film on water over the surface of the cuttings and high humidity in order to prevent desiccation of plant tissues that have lost the support of roots, until new roots form.

When to take cuttings is a perpetual challenge to the propagator.  This is truly the "art" of plant propagation.   Keep in mind that energy levels in plant tissue typical reach a maximum in late summer or early fall. This energy level changes only slightly during winter.  However, with the first flush of growth in the spring, The energy level drops ABRUPTLY. This is because the energy was spent in support of the expanding bud and new growth and with some species like citrus, development of flowers and fruits. With citrus species that make several flushes of growth, the buildup of energy progresses, then drops again with the next flush and so on. The key to cutting propagation is to wait until the energy level in the tissue has recovered to a higher level to support root development, yet not wait too long and lose the responsiveness and ability of young tissues to produce roots. Also keep in mind that a time period typically can be 30 to 60 days to root most broad-leaf cuttings. If cutting are taken too late in the fall and early winter season and the bud chilling requirements has already been met in the cutting, as soon as the cuttings are placed in a warm cutting area, buds swell and new growth begins and energy levels drop leaving little to support root initiation and growth. In general, it has been found that there is no ideal rooting medium but several combinations of materials can provide a good, workable medium with a drainable pore space of 40% to 50%.  Good quality peat and coarse perlite or peat and ground pine bark on a 1:1 or 1:1.5 or 1:2 basis by VOLUME works well in propagation containers approximately 3.5 to 4 inches deep. I have found on a variety of occasions that bags of "coarse" perlite were far from being coarse.  It is VERY VERY VERY important that the components of the rooting medium are free of diseases and insects.  Perlite is sterile when purchased. GOOD quality peat moss, although not sterile, is clean and ready for use directly from the bale and has some capacity to suppress pathogens. By contrast, ground bark can range from relatively clean to unacceptable containing soil, pathogens and weed seeds. DO NOT - I REPEAT DO NOT - cut corners with respect to the rooting medium, as it is false prosperity.  The size and type of cutting to be taken are sometimes dictated by the size and vigor of the branches on the parent plant.  In general, however, cuttings should be four to seven inches long and medium to large in stem diameter for the species or cultivar.  Slender branches, and all branches from the shaded portions of the parent plant should be avoided since they are lower in carbohydrates and less likely to root and become vigorous plants. The leaves on the cutting play a very important role in rooting.  Leave one or two leaves on the cutting.

REMEMBER the condition of the parent plant supplying the cutting is very important.  In general, the more vigorous and healthy the parent, the better the cuttings root and grow as long as they are not overly succulent. Good luck. Thanks for being a member of this forum.  - Millet
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 10:19:00 PM by Millet »

Radoslav

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 03:20:38 AM »
As far as I know, ability to create roots from cutting varies within citrus species. Lemons, Cedrats and Pummelos and I think also australian microcitruses are easy to propagate all others are problematic.

TonyinCC

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2017, 11:56:31 PM »
About 18 years ago, I rooted Owari Satsuma cuttings in peat/perlite with sterilized water/miracle grow in 3 liter plastic drink bottles cut apart and taped back together. One cutting per bottle. Just enough liquid to maintain humidity. Softwood cuttings with 2 mature leaves each.  Dipped cuttings in diluted bleach, then sprayed  with Wilt-pruf, dipped in Hormodin rooting powder. Put on a sunny windowsill,  Not ideal since I didn't have proper equipment. 2 out of 4 didn't rot and eventually rooted but it took a FULL YEAR before ready to transplant. Most stubborn plant I ever had any success rooting. Not sure how they did afterwards, I gave them away since by then I had bought additional trees to fill all the spaces in my yard..... Sold that house in 1999.

SonnyCrockett

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 11:07:22 PM »
Just to see what would happen, I was messing around a while back and tried to root a bunch of cuttings from my garden.  I don't remember if this one is Kishu or Tango.  I think the other one that has a tiny root forming is Xie Shan.  It took forever and had a very low rate of rooting.  For the most part, the cuttings stayed green and looked good, but didn't want to root.  I didn't use bottom heat, so maybe I could have done better.


Millet

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 11:28:36 AM »
Sonny, congratulations on your success.  Xie Shan satsuma is in my opinion the best of all the satsumas.

Ilya11

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2017, 09:41:34 AM »
May be air-layering will be more efficient.
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                       Ilya

DimplesLee

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2017, 08:18:21 AM »
I am just a noob and having had limited success rooting cuttings (and feeling depressed that I lost potential plants!) I've stuck to air-layering after the first few failed attempts. You can buy those commercial air propagators or just use a plastic bottle (split in half, filled with good quality compost and then use duct tape to hold it back together). I find that most citrus prefer that I poke smaller holes in the all over the plastic bottle for drainage - the branch just dies off if the compost is consistently mucky.
Diggin in dirt and shifting compost - gardeners crossfit regime :)

SonnyCrockett

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2017, 08:14:32 PM »
Is that a Spring time activity?  I don't have any experience air layering.

I'll have to look into "commercial air propagators".

DFWCitrus

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2017, 10:27:46 AM »
Sorry for the late reply, I just joined the forum here, great place and lucky find!

Regarding Satsuma, I took 2 Arctic Frost Satsuma cuttings this past November 2016 and putting them in my germinator after dipping in root hormone. It was a slow process due to the colder ambient temps and lower amount of daylight, but they rooted at 6-8 weeks. Both are outside now and starting to really take off. I had never done this before and was a total rookie. I also did a Kaffir lime at the same time and it also took. So it is definitely responsive with cuttings. Note Arctic Frost Satsuma seem very touchy and not vigorous, so it was a good test.

DFWCitrus

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2017, 01:12:57 PM »
Sorry for the late reply, I just joined the forum here, great place and lucky find!

Regarding Satsuma, I took 2 Arctic Frost Satsuma cuttings this past November 2016 and putting them in my germinator after dipping in root hormone. It was a slow process due to the colder ambient temps and lower amount of daylight, but they rooted at 6-8 weeks. Both are outside now and starting to really take off. I had never done this before and was a total rookie. I also did a Kaffir lime at the same time and it also took. So it is definitely responsive with cuttings. Note Arctic Frost Satsuma seem very touchy and not vigorous, so it was a good test.
My Arctic Frost Satsuma cutting as of today 4/6/17


Vlad

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2017, 11:57:52 PM »
DWF Citrus: What is a germinator?

DFWCitrus

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Re: Satsuma cuttings
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 09:31:39 PM »
DWF Citrus: What is a germinator?
One of these set-ups. Works better than anything else I have used.


 

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