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Author Topic: Page Mandarin issues  (Read 536 times)

robbyhernz

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Page Mandarin issues
« on: March 13, 2017, 04:03:28 PM »
Hello,

Wondering what is going on with my page mandarin.. This is old growth from last year and I'm hoping this year's flush doesn't come out the same. One of these shoots is also way taller than the rest.

Also, wondering if I can put the page in the ground also in zone 8b? I read on a previous thread that after kumquats and satsumas, they are the most tolerant.

Thank you,





« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 04:17:50 PM by robbyhernz »

Badfish8696

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 11:19:13 PM »
Hard to tell without close ups of the leafs but looks like Citrus Leaf Miner. They attack the young flushes of leafs leaving behind squiggly silver trails ultimately causing ugly dried twisted leafs. Only cosmetic unless it's a young tree. You can treat with Spinosad.

Tom

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 09:46:56 AM »
I agree that it sure looks like heavy citrus leaf miner damage and they love tender new flushes of growth. You can get aggressive with several other poisons but you would need to be very consistent spraying flushes because when the leaf miner gets inside the leaf nothing you spray on the leaf will kill them. A systemic applied regularly to coincide with flushes would be the best but some people would understandably not want to eat the fruit until the leaf miners are under control. I mean you might need to skip a year of fruit consumption if you exceeded the label limits of poison. Good luck ! Tom

robbyhernz

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 02:27:23 PM »
The interesting thing is that it is only on my Page and on 3 new branches that grew last year. I have an allspice that has it to a much lesser degree but none of my other 8 trees are affected by them. If it were miners, wouldn't i see an issue on all my pots? They are all bunched together...

Badfish8696

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 04:31:32 PM »
It depends on the type of plants, these guys mainly attack citrus but can affect other species. See more info here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllocnistis_citrella

They also only attack young growth so if your Page tree was the only one flushing when the moths were active it would be the only one affected.

robbyhernz

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 02:29:32 PM »
You guys are right!! DANG! I don't see the circling patterns but they do have lines through them! Not only that, my Flame grapefruit, Washington Naval and Allspice tangerine now have infected plants as well! HORRIBLE!

Jct

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 12:38:44 PM »
Yes, they are a pain! I do not mind too much on my well established lemon tree, the damage is just cosmetics, but my new orange and mandarin trees are another matter!  A local San Diegan uses a combination of spinosad and Bonide All Seasons Oil which he states is effective.  He does caution to spray in the evening so as to reduce the impact on beneficial bees. He re-applies the spray every 3 weeks.  That sounds like a pain, but I'm going to start on that regime to preserve my young citrus trees.  He also restricts fertilizing during the prime summer and fall months when the leaf miners are most prevalent here in San Diego.
LaVerne Manila Mango; Pixie Crunch, Honeycrisp & Gala Apple Trees; Violette De Bordeaux & Black Mission Fig; Santa Rosa Plum; Nagami Kumquat, Pixie Tangerine, Lemon & Washington Navel Citrus; White & Red Dragon Fruit; Miracle Berry Plant (Synsepalum dulcificum)

robbyhernz

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 12:59:32 PM »
Yes, a pain is right!!! I didn't even notice but almost all my trees are affected! Only weird thing is that i am not getting the squiggly lines and you cant see the lines from the bottom of the leaves. It's just a straight thick line on the top leaves and nothing underneath. Yesterday i sprayed with Ultra Fine.. This is a pesticidal oil that Millet recommended way back before it was discontinued that I was able to get my hand on.

HOPE IT WORKS!!!

yesterday i also put my page into the ground! I hope it survives our cold winters...

Millet

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 05:15:38 PM »
Imidacloprid kills leaf miners.  Certainly when you feed almost any insecticide directly to a bee it's deleterious--bees are highly susceptible to many classes of insecticides.  However, imidacloprid, applied to the root system of a citrus tree seems to be fairly safe if used according to the label.  The Florida citrus industry uses incredible amounts of it, and they do not see bee kills. The so called "sudden death" syndrome of bee colonies, which was at one time attributed to imidacloprid, now seems to have nothing to do with that material. An interesting aspect of imidacloprid is that it does not move very well into flowers.  That is a real problem in the cut flower industry, in that you can't get it to control thrips or other flower feeding insects - it just won't go there.  But in the case of the citrus industry, that is a good thing--it doesn't seem to affect the bees collecting pollen from our citrus flowers.   (Taken from notes received by Dr. Malcolm Manners)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:35:06 PM by Millet »

Citradia

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 08:45:21 PM »
But, does imidacloprid get into the fruit?  Used to get Bayer systemic immidacloprid that is applied as s root bath and the label said could use it on fruit trees. Now it says only ornamental plants. I figured because they found out it gets in the fruit and poisons people, no?

Millet

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 09:24:45 PM »
Citradia, below is the Imidacloprid label.  For citrus the Pre-Harvest Interval for Imidacloprid is 0 days.

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/www.agrian.com/pdfs/Admire_Pro_Systemic_Protectant_Label1v.pdf

Citradia

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 07:18:58 PM »
Thanks Millet.

Mike T

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 10:05:47 PM »
I think page must be a tangor. All neonicotenoids need to be used with extreme caution in spite of being more targeted than any previous insecticide (due to d-loop metabolism targeting) and don't seem to impact some vertebrates.They can wipe out insects in minute amounts and do get into flowers and pollen killing bees. They have been banned in many parts of Europe in spite of being widely deployed all over the world.It is their impact on pollinators far beyond application zones causing much concern.Some say it is the new DDT.

Vlad

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 11:45:23 PM »
Please explain "d-loop metabolism targeting".

Mike T

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 06:32:16 AM »
http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/etd/ucb/text/Swenson_berkeley_0028E_13169.pdf
The paper here is a bit complicated and goes into the mode of action.I just meant it targets insects so well because it disrupts metabolic processes specific to them not in vertebrates.

Millet

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 06:26:58 PM »
Mike  T, thank you for your postings on this thread.  I totally agree with you when we talk about insecticides in general.  In this particular case, the case of Imidacloprid and its use on citrus,  I personally believe it can be used in a safe manner with little danger to bees, and for that matter for humans.   A couple reasons.  Imidacloprid is used throughout the citrus industry in a truly  incredible volume, and with little or no bee kill reported. The USDA/EPA has allowed a zero (0) day interval between application and harvest. Zero day harvest is very rare in the USA. Umpteen billions of oranges have been treated, harvested and consumed with no implications.   Of course it comes down to a case of personal choice.  One can either use it or not.  I personally can see no reason not to. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 09:45:15 PM by Millet »

Mike T

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Re: Page Mandarin issues
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2017, 08:51:34 AM »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/pesticides-linked-to-bee-deaths-must-be-banned-scientists-say-1.2685492
There is actually plenty of work on this topic as it is the hottest issue in the world of pesticides at the moment.Widespread use might not ensure it is all good.I personally don't know what to believe on this one as there is conflicting evidence but alarms are sounding off in Europe.Sorry to go a bit off track but I thought it was worth drawing attention to it and people can google and see what they think.

 

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