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Author Topic: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup  (Read 1010 times)

shot

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2017, 04:13:11 PM »
1000 plus trees and I manage without roundup .Everyone who's around me use it and have more complications example nematodes.mitigating the down side of roundup with mulch helps alot.I use peanut ground cover and as the aussie say slash the rest.

greenman62

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 04:24:39 PM »
Because Bush, even adding mulch does not stop weeds, at least here in Central Florida. I weeded a bed two weeks ago and put a couple inches of mulch on there on top of the mulch already there. I already have dollar weeds profusely coming through along with some others. Note that before I laid the bed down in the first place I cleared the ground of all plants and roots with a shovel to bare dirt. I don't have time to go weed 120+ beds around my trees. Round up doesn't penetrate the soil and breaks down quickly. Just don't spray right up to the fruit tree and things are fine.

I never noticed a smell to Roundup. I think the silicates from my rock cutting hobby will kill me before round up does. That said I am not making a cocktail of it and drinking it in any way.

i use newspaper or cardboard around the trees under the mulch.
i have tons of very healthy dollar weed in areas that i leave go wild (on purpose)
where i have the cardboard there are none
and if you keep adding much around it every year
the dollar weed doesnt come back.
no weeds do if the mulch is thick.



LivingParadise

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2017, 04:32:30 PM »
Sadly, this has been known for years. I even posted about it in this forum a year or two ago.

Common sense says not to put poison where you live, and into your water supply, where it inevitably runs off.

Incidentally, since someone mentioned dollar weeds, they are extremely nutritious, with anti-cancer properties, and pretty tasty too! As are most other plants labeled "weeds" that people inexplicably pay money to burn off their property, and then go pay lots of money to a grocery store for produce that is half as nutritious and nowhere near as fresh, that is also covered in poison. Same is true for purslane, which is loaded with Omega 3 fats, and tastes really good!

People are so proud of their ignorance and rising cancer and Autism rates it is amazing.

spaugh

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2017, 04:48:32 PM »
I hear sun rays are cancerous too.  And southern CA air.  And the flouride and chlorine in city water....   Its a scary world out there.

Guanabanus

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2017, 05:38:22 PM »
It is also said that this stuff kills some of our gut flora and beneficial microorganisms in the soil, and that it ties up some nutrients in the soil.
Har

Cookie Monster

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2017, 07:19:14 PM »
This guy nailed it:

Chemical with compost is the magic formula.

Over the past 11+ years of growing fruit trees here and having tried all 3: all chemical, all organic, compost + chemical. The latter wins hands down. It's like eating a healthy diet and also taking vitamins.

Organic is good for the garden, but so is Roundup.

http://www.southernchestercountyweeklies.com/article/SC/20130620/LIFE01/130629978
Jeff  :-)

Vlad

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palmcity

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2017, 09:26:26 PM »
Since we've decided to hijack a gardeners forum with yet another political "he said she said" ditty, what do you guys think about "global warming"?  Especially ya'll living in the NE right now?  Where's Al Gore when ya need him?

Hi Mark,
I consider this one of the best documentaries I have ever watched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gMpQNu4wcU
Through youtube Nova - Extreme Cave Diving (PBS Documentary).  It's sort of funny to me the name for this documentary because this is far more of an important find pertaining to climate change. But, I guess extreme cave diving is on the short term more exciting for viewer participation of PBS & Nova.
Beginning at 38 minutes in using your slide bar, stalagmites from over 100 feet down in a blue hole in the Bahamas is sliced open showing iron deposits that mysteriously fell over the Bahamas in prior years. These deposits are believed to have blown from Africa during a period of climate change occurring rapidly over the earth. It is a great informative video and I guarantee you to like it if you are inquisitive on the question of can climate change occur on a large scale quickly.

Earlier at 18 minutes into the video it shows the location where the birds previously flew into the caves presently under water that once were above water.

At least one of the divers in the video is now deceased from his profession. Using rebreathers is explained and the risks/deaths from many divers using them.

After watching it, My response to is global warming occurring?  I hope not. I hope the government keeps a little extra money to throw water on the Sahara if the winds start blowing hard...  ;)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 10:28:14 PM by palmcity »

kalan

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2017, 10:47:25 PM »
You guys are bluffing with your conspiracy theories. I miss JC from Fiji to straighten you all out  ;).

JC was wayyyyyyyy out there.  He was a polished conspiracy artist.

Since we've decided to hijack a gardeners forum with yet another political "he said she said" ditty, what do you guys think about "global warming"?  Especially ya'll living in the NE right now?  Where's Al Gore when ya need him? 

 


Didn't know science was considered "waaaay out there" conspiracy theory. News to most rational folks on this planet.

Actually, I don't think you or anyone else actually believes that global warming is a conspiracy theory. I think it's just part of the ideologues' diet. It's a package deal.

Let me see how conspiratorial this is:
1. Global warming is a hoax
2. Muslims and immigrants  our number one threats.
3. There should be no limits on gun ownership.
4. Gay marriage somehow violates you
5. Taxation is theft
6. Obama was a Muslim sympathizer who hated America.
7. Obama wire-tapped trump
8. You voted for trump
9. Liberalism is a mental disease
10. You laughed at the notion of th post-inauguration women's marches.

How am I doing? 9 out of 10, maybe?
See, I'm betting is not really global warming, or al gore.
It''s Kool-aid
🙃

Guanabanus

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2017, 12:08:44 PM »
I do occassionally still apply some RTU Roundup, provided by customers:  on paver cracks, or as a one-time application on grass, before putting down ground--cover cloth or cardboard and raised vegetable bed or thick mulch.  Any weeds still poking through or starting on top of the mulch from mower throw can then be burned down with "organically-approved" herbicides, such as Scythe or Horticultural Vinegar, which work fine on very small tender weeds, but are expensive and not adequate on established sod.
Har

Jackson

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2017, 01:25:41 PM »
 
Quote
what do you guys think about "global warming"?  Especially ya'll living in the NE right now?
 

You are confusing climate and weather.

Global warming --> Climate
Snowstorm in the NE --> Weather

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 01:27:52 PM by Jackson »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2017, 02:34:08 PM »
Quote
what do you guys think about "global warming"?  Especially ya'll living in the NE right now?
 

You are confusing climate and weather.

Global warming --> Climate
Snowstorm in the NE --> Weather

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html

This whole thread is confusing, and stupid.   Might as well add to the global madness.  ;D

Oprah interviewing (enabling) Gore on her show, at the end of his dog and pony show - "Where do we get more information on global warming?"

Gore - "Ya gotta buy my DVD and book."



True story, watched that episode thanks to my wife.  ::)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:42:38 PM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2017, 02:47:17 PM »
....then be burned down with "organically-approved" herbicides, such as Scythe or Horticultural Vinegar, which work fine on very small tender weeds, but are expensive and not adequate on established sod.

Roundup?  Cheater  ;D

Be careful with that useless and expensive stuff, hort. vinegar.  The fumes can burn your lungs.

Jackson

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2017, 03:37:13 PM »
Quote
This whole thread is confusing, and stupid.   Might as well add to the global madness.  ;D

Oprah interviewing (enabling) Gore on her show, at the end of his dog and pony show - "Where do we get more information on global warming?"

Gore - "Ya gotta buy my DVD and book."
True story, watched that episode thanks to my wife.  ::)

An observation from a couple of your links/comments on this thread. It looks like you are letting your feelings/bias against Al Gore influence you from keeping an open mind about global warming/climate change.

I don't tend to argue about global warming with strangers on the internet but it is a pet peeve of mine when someone mocks the subject, while at the same time demonstrating that they do not understand the difference between climate and weather.

We still have Flat-Earthers, so I guess it is no surprise that there is no convincing people who don't believe in global warming. And, that's fine. Life will go on (for some time at least  ;)!).
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/flat-earth-society-interview-876






AnnonaMangoLord45

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2017, 03:56:43 PM »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2017, 06:26:20 PM »
AnnonaMangoLord45, no shit!!!!!!   ;D

Thanks for the quarterly reminder of why "off topic" section was removed.
I do wonder of those who use the weed killer, do you notice the smell and does it bother you?

As a fruit grower why would you spray something on your soil that is a "killer" when you could accomplish the same result of weed eradication by applying wood chips on your soil , improving your soil and making it more "alive". Improving the soil for better crops and the best fruit possible is the goal , no?

Huh?  You got the wrong chemical amigo.  Glyphosate doesn't smell, is deactivated upon contact with soil, tests reveal microbes actually feed on it and compared to most who aren't hybrid growers like me, Carlos and maybe Cookie Monster...... I probably have planted, plowed in, put down more tons of green manure crops and legumes AND horse manure/compost than any of the organic purists posting here.  You CAN have it both ways, save money, produce more with less pain....safely with the right chemicals.

"It's not ignorance that's the problem, it's folks knowing so much that isn't true."   :o
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:31:18 PM by Mark in Texas »

palmcity

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2017, 06:47:22 PM »

1. global warming/climate

2. We still have Flat-Earthers, so I guess it is no surprise that there is no convincing people who don't believe in global warming. And, that's fine. Life will go on (for some time at least  ;)!).
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/flat-earth-society-interview-876
1. Possible Global Warming. Hard to prove or disprove as none were around centuries ago and most data is ice cores containing C02 levels at various times in history.  I personally like to see evidence and is why I thought the video of the evidence removed from caves deep beneath the water would be a new awakening for some.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

  ;) those bird bones and remains of prey found deep within the cave under water probably did not wear scuba to go that deep to eat lunch on the shelf of the under water cave.

Next...
2.Flat Earth believers.
I've met one person who at least listened to the idea often.
I informed him that the idea of a flat earth is ludicrous.It is not a conspiracy. Do not tell anyone of any intelligence if you believe this as it's absurd.

Just google the amount of daylight in different hemispheres and you will see that the earth actually tilts on an axis seasonally while rotation around the sun with one half getting more sunlight for that approximate half the year and then it tilts again in the other direction from the sun. Just call anyone in the southern hemisphere if you doubt it is not what I am telling you and they can verify the hours of sunlight they are experiencing vs. your northern hemisphere. A few locations even have no light all day for many days vs. continual daylight in the opposite hemisphere at that latitude. 90degrees latitude = north or south pole.

This difference in daylight in the northern vs. southern hemisphere would not happen if the earth was flat and stationary with the sun doing the moving for daylight vs. night.

Concerning Glyphosate.
I have not used it yet, However I have purchased it and may yet use it.
Why the change of Possible usage?
1. I have had my kids and am no longer concerned of passing on the gene pool as I am on well water and was concerned of possible chemical contamination previously.
2. It has been around a long time now so overtly bad things should have been discovered if possible with glyphosate.
3. It is presently listed as Mark described - inactivated by soil adsorption.   

« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 07:33:26 PM by palmcity »

greenman62

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2017, 05:35:59 PM »
Quote
This whole thread is confusing, and stupid.   Might as well add to the global madness.  ;D

Oprah interviewing (enabling) Gore on her show, at the end of his dog and pony show - "Where do we get more information on global warming?"

Gore - "Ya gotta buy my DVD and book."
True story, watched that episode thanks to my wife.  ::)


An observation from a couple of your links/comments on this thread. It looks like you are letting your feelings/bias against Al Gore influence you from keeping an open mind about global warming/climate change.

I don't tend to argue about global warming with strangers on the internet but it is a pet peeve of mine when someone mocks the subject, while at the same time demonstrating that they do not understand the difference between climate and weather.

We still have Flat-Earthers, so I guess it is no surprise that there is no convincing people who don't believe in global warming. And, that's fine. Life will go on (for some time at least  ;)!).
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/flat-earth-society-interview-876



absolutely amazing and appaling...
ive noticed this on youtube
so much for the next generation...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=flat+earth

IMO, the real danger with things like glyphosate and GMO's are ...
where does it stop ?
When everything we eat will be completely synthetic, made with
pesticides, herbicides, chemical fertilizers etc...
and the meat is contaminated with steroids, hormones, antibiotics...
(im vegan, that doesn't bother me)

But, are we not going in the wrong direction ?
Where does it stop ?

We have the knowledge to grow food without these chemicals
some farmers have started going to "no-till" and started using cover-crops.
and reducing the need for chemicals
But i think its a bit early yet to know what our food system will look like in 30 yrs.
lets hope the future brings healthy natural food.

---------------------

Glyphosate-based herbicides reduce the activity and reproduction of earthworms and lead to increased soil nutrient concentrations
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep12886


Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) improve water access and soil minerals for plants, improve
drought tolerance and help with resistance against pathogens. Recent research has found that
glyphosate (and/or its metabolite AMPA) reduces the spore viability and root colonisation of
AMF, and could reduce plant diversity.43 Another study found a 40% reduction of mycorrhization
after the application of Roundup in soils that had been amended with the mycorrhizal fungi,
Glomus mosseae.
https://www.soilassociation.org/media/7202/glyphosate-and-soil-health-full-report.pdf

Dr. Kremer talks glyphosate (RoundUp) and soil health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpJSdSXAlwg


Bush2Beach

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2017, 10:38:52 PM »
simmer down beta
Still don't really know what that means besides that the user sof the term arenot too bright...

My powerlifting total is pretty respectable. Is lifting very heavy things not "alpha".
In fact do you even lift?
If your total is lower than mine I guess you must be the "beta"

I think you've got it. Heavy lifting , Strong, confidant is obviously alpha.
I think that's a common alpha male phrase in the states " Bro, do you lift?"
I still wonder why you brought up that you lift weights.
I can lift the lip of a 45 or 65 gallon pot onto a board to slide up to the tallgate and on to the back of my pick up truck, It's not something I'm happy about though, I've been trying to find a good place to plant them since they were in 15's.
When I was in Texas I was told " you wanna come see my truck" was a really good pick up line.
Either way I'm pretty sure shot was referring to man boobs.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2017, 11:55:42 PM »
Because Bush, even adding mulch does not stop weeds, at least here in Central Florida. I weeded a bed two weeks ago and put a couple inches of mulch on there on top of the mulch already there. I already have dollar weeds profusely coming through along with some others. Note that before I laid the bed down in the first place I cleared the ground of all plants and roots with a shovel to bare dirt. I don't have time to go weed 120+ beds around my trees. Round up doesn't penetrate the soil and breaks down quickly. Just don't spray right up to the fruit tree and things are fine.

I never noticed a smell to Roundup. I think the silicates from my rock cutting hobby will kill me before round up does. That said I am not making a cocktail of it and drinking it in any way.

Tropheus, thanks for your answer. I don't have experience working with glyphosate. I was blasted riding my bike the other day by this lady spraying by the curb around her iris's  ::), it smelled terrible and stayed with me a minute or two as I rode.
That's true, I did not think about how quickly weeds grow in FL. I try to apply a foot of wood chips right about this time of year as the weeds and grass get set to go crazy and ground starts drying up with warmer weather. CA doesn't  get that much more rain to go with the heat so not as much constant weed and grass growth.
There is a time and labor component as well, its a lot of work to put truckload after truckload of wood chips up onto and down off of the truck and get them were they need to be.

It seems there's contrary evidence on how quickly glyphosate breaks down .
I'm watching the process of wood chips enriching and enlivening the soil by becoming soil and it makes a profound difference in water conservation aka my water bill, for me as well .

gozp

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2017, 12:04:38 AM »
I hear sun rays are cancerous too.  And southern CA air.  And the flouride and chlorine in city water....   Its a scary world out there.

I heard that its the chemtrails (heavy metals) is the reason why the sun rays are harmful.

buddyguygreen

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2017, 12:07:49 AM »
simmer down beta


In fact do you even lift?

HAHAHA Do you even lift bro  ;)

stuartdaly88

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2017, 01:38:20 AM »
simmer down beta
Still don't really know what that means besides that the user sof the term arenot too bright...

My powerlifting total is pretty respectable. Is lifting very heavy things not "alpha".
In fact do you even lift?
If your total is lower than mine I guess you must be the "beta"

I think you've got it. Heavy lifting , Strong, confidant is obviously alpha.
I think that's a common alpha male phrase in the states " Bro, do you lift?"
I still wonder why you brought up that you lift weights.
I can lift the lip of a 45 or 65 gallon pot onto a board to slide up to the tallgate and on to the back of my pick up truck, It's not something I'm happy about though, I've been trying to find a good place to plant them since they were in 15's.
When I was in Texas I was told " you wanna come see my truck" was a really good pick up line.
Either way I'm pretty sure shot was referring to man boobs.
I know what it means I was being facetious. It's not to do with physical characteristics. The population most afflicted with gyno are actually steroid users the most "alpha" of any group I would think.
I think the whole beta/alpha male thing is really stupid. I could be considered "beta" because I have a strong belief in feminism and women's rights as well as having a lot of empathy and have no interest in cars or watching team sports. But alpha because I powerlift and can have aggression problems. Categorising people into beta or alpha is as stupid as me trying to tell other men I am superior because I lift that was my point.

The beta alpha thing is very problematic in my opinion and tries to box men into a very particular archetype or be the hated pathetic "beta". Similar to notions like "real men don't cry". In reality people are varied and that's a good thing there is no right way to be a man and you can have both masculine and feminine traits and still be a fantastic person maybe even more well rounded and happy than if you boxed yourself into one type or the other. We should not use these terms as they stop men from just being who they want to be.
Also the terms "beta" and "alpha" are almost exclusively used by misogynists.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 01:46:50 AM by stuartdaly88 »
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Mark in Texas

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2017, 08:33:58 AM »
Tropheus, thanks for your answer. I don't have experience working with glyphosate.


That's what I thought but you sure have a lot to opine about it.  This is what's a joke about so many forums and the sky-is-falling organic parrots - folks who are not only ignorant, never even held a bottle of glyphosate but know so much about the "horrors" of it. 

Quote
I was blasted riding my bike the other day by this lady spraying by the curb around her iris's  ::), it smelled terrible and stayed with me a minute or two as I rode.


Suggests she was spraying with 2-4D, a very common over the counter broadleaf herbicide that stinks.  Smell means nothing unless you're on a date and/or making whoopie.   Do you still have your feet or did they rot off?   :D

Quote
There is a time and labor component as well, its a lot of work to put truckload after truckload of wood chips up onto and down off of the truck and get them were they need to be.


Work smart, not hard and that includes the use of pesticides when need be.

For example the easiest most efficient way to haul organics in bulk is go in with a friend or two on a 4.5 cu. yd. electrically operated dump trailer rental.  We do a caravan of trailers and pickups at a giant horse manure pile with one guy on a loader - pull up, dump, dump, dump....NEXT!   I have unloaded my 16' double axle trailer by hand.....never again!   (Recent lower lumbar surgery makes that a given now!)  Pull up to the garden, hit the switch and dump.

Like this:
http://bigtextrailerworld.com/dump-trailers/

Quote
It seems there's contrary evidence on how quickly glyphosate breaks down .


Of course there is contrary "evidence"......but if someone on the internet says it and someone repeats it, it's gotta be true!

Good luck with your mulch.  FWIW, we get a huge 2 yd. load from the City landfill for $10.  It's clean and used by our local govts. and residents for landscaping.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Unsealed Documents Raise Questions about the safety of Roundup
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2017, 02:59:38 PM »
Stuart,
 Thanks for the explanation. I find your posts intelligent and articulate and was confused on this one as it seemed from left field.

A Mark,
 I have no experience working with toxic chemicals, it seems like a good way to go for me.
I have no need for working with glyphosate . I read labels, look stuff up and do the best research I can in life, if there's 2 ways to do it and 1 doesn't involve purchasing anything and makes the soil and plants really happy , that's an easy call. Free and the tree's look great and it's done, the thought process does not go further down the line because 1. Free 2. Building soil 3 trees doing great 4 go purchase poison to spray just doesn't happen, it's not a necessary step. Some of y'all have acres planted or 100's of trees and the time saving is worth it for you , I get it. There's pro's and con's we consider in everything. I hope the stuff is safe. History tells us some corporations have ulterior money motives that matter much more than human health.

Toxic smells matter to me all the time, not just when I'm naked thanks. Yeaaaah buddy my feet are good thanks so much for asking about my , umm feet?

My plantings are not on  flat land as far as the I can see, quite the opposite, you don't just pull the dumper up and dump dump dump, or believe me I would.

FWIW , not a city boy, don't have any clue what your fancy capital letters in a row mean.
I believe you wrote  " if someone says it and someone repeats it , it's got to be true" followed by your sage advice of purchasing "clean" city dump mulch , right. I have eyes to see what's in that.
I'll continue with the free wood chips from tree companies.

Your calling me an ignorant , sky is falling, organic parrot .
Ignorance IS bliss. I don't claim to know all. I'm ready to continue learning. It's all good. You can't make anyone do something they don't want to do , they have to want to do it for whatever reason.

If anyone is on the fence , try it both ways and see what works better for your situation.


 

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