Author Topic: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.  (Read 4118 times)

Jackson

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Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« on: March 30, 2017, 09:39:35 PM »
I am in the process of buying a new home. The builder will be putting in sod and an irrigation system. Does it make sense to go this route if I plan to plant quite a few fruit trees? I feel like it is pointless if all I will be doing is digging holes in all the newly laid sod to plant my trees. Any opinions?

Also, is an irrigation system set up differently for a lawn as opposed to what would mostly be trees? If so, then would it make more sense for me to plant my trees and then put in an irrigation system?

Any and all advice is appreciated.

FruitFreak

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 10:14:04 PM »
If you know your tree layout maybe the contractor could incorporate your design into his irrigation for a small fee?
- Marley

Kiet

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 10:56:32 PM »
1. map out your property based on how many trees you think you might plant out, regardless if you know or don't know what your going to plant.
2. Talk to your landscaper and see if they can just work out the layout with some sort of flood irrigation. You're paying for the money, might as well have it the way you want it.
3. Save on the sod and ask them to see if you can just mulch everything for you if thats a possibility.

bsbullie

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 11:41:32 PM »
If you are buying in a PUD  with an Association and if so, is the irrigation under a master control,  better check with them or the developer to get approval before you are made to change something you have done after everything is completed.
- Rob

Mark in Texas

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2017, 09:07:43 AM »
It's a helluvalot cheaper to build new than to remodel!

Use pop up sprinklers for the lawn.  Hunter or Rainbird.   If you have a lot of wind use the low angle types or you'll be spraying the house, the boat, and the cat next door.  Also, I HIGHLY recommend La Paloma bermuda seed, hydro seeded after all is said and done, equipment gone and you've dragged out the soil so it's smooth.  It may cost more but the effect is amazing. You'll have a full blown lawn within 2 weeks if sowed in spring or summer.  The operator dumps the seed, a little fertilizer, some bales of green shredded mulch into a 500 gal. tank and with a hose strung over his shoulder blasts the seed into the ground as he moves thru the area.  Many make the big mistake, get impatient, and buy the plant material first.  Don't!   Install you supportive infrastructure i.e. irrigation system and then plant.

And yes La Paloma takes shade and drought well. 419 hybrid bermuda is also a good choice.

I have fruit trees and if need be just drop a hose around them and flood the area.


« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 10:18:53 AM by Mark in Texas »

boxturtle

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 01:51:04 PM »
how big is your property?  Always easier to do it right the first time.   Like others said map out where you want your trees, always do the max because you will max it out.   I would do underground dripline like the rainbird xfs and sprinkler system on top for the lawn.  For the first month you will be using the sprinkler system for your sod and whenever you are fertilizing it and it's there if anything happens to your dripline.  The underground drip line will save you alot of water.  For your trees do drip system too but the stake type and if you feeling fancy make a system where you can feed/mix  fertilizer into the system.   Make sure everything is ran on different valves and put in 2 more valves then you need.  Just In case you want to add more later.   

Cookie Monster

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 02:14:02 PM »
Part of it depends on your HOA. If you're using their irrigation pump, drip may not be an option, since drip will need to run longer than the 15 or 20 minutes per zone that they schedule twice a week.

If you plan on 6 - 12 trees, I wouldn't worry too much about it; just use the rainbird popups.

If you plan on a full-fledged orchard, check out the senningers. If the HOA is abnormal (like mine) and won't throw a fit if you don't have a green sea of st augustine, use tree trimmer mulch vs sod.
Jeff  :-)

Jackson

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 02:15:39 PM »
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

FruitFreak, Kiet - the builder has said that the landscaper would be willing to work with me to lay out the irrigation but the sod has to go in. Apparently, they cannot get a Certificate of Occupancy without it.  Mulching the lot instead of putting in sod, is a no go. So, I will work on my tree layout when we get closer to the landscaping stage and at least have the irrigation part done to my satisfaction. I guess, I am just going to have to deal with digging the sod up.

Bsbullie - the property is not/will not be part of an HOA.

Mark in Texas - the lot belongs to the builder. He is selling it to us on the condition that he gets to build the house. The landscaping (sod, irrigation, etc.) are all included in the price of the house. The variety of grass/sod they will be using is part of the contract and so I have to go with that. Considering, I will be digging quite a bit of it up, I decided it was not worth the hassle to fight over what kind of grass to use.

Boxturtle - the lot is .9 acres. There are some big trees on the property that I would like to keep. I am assuming once the house and pool go in, I will have about half an acre left to plant fruit trees, vegetables, flowers. So, I will have to narrow down my wish list. I would need a lot more land to plant everything I would like to have!

Cookie Monster - No HOA! One of the things I really liked about this lot, along with the fact that it also had everything else on my checklist. I will check out the Sennigers. I have a lot of reading to do about irrigation systems. I am not very familiar with the set-ups. All of my gardening is done in pots that I hand water or use a Rainbird drip irrigation system for when I travel.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 02:23:37 PM »
The sod musn't go in.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 03:47:45 PM »
OK. If you're planning on using a significant portion of your acreage for fruit trees, I would lay out an orchard irrigation system for the builder to install. You definitely do want a good irrigation system for your trees, and it's not going to be the same as a typical sod irrigation system.

You should read through the municipal code for the city that you're building in to find out how much sod (and whether sod vs, say, perennial peanut) is required. In my city, there are percentage guidelines based on canopy coverage which dictate how much mulch is allowed.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

FruitFreak, Kiet - the builder has said that the landscaper would be willing to work with me to lay out the irrigation but the sod has to go in. Apparently, they cannot get a Certificate of Occupancy without it.  Mulching the lot instead of putting in sod, is a no go. So, I will work on my tree layout when we get closer to the landscaping stage and at least have the irrigation part done to my satisfaction. I guess, I am just going to have to deal with digging the sod up.

Bsbullie - the property is not/will not be part of an HOA.

Mark in Texas - the lot belongs to the builder. He is selling it to us on the condition that he gets to build the house. The landscaping (sod, irrigation, etc.) are all included in the price of the house. The variety of grass/sod they will be using is part of the contract and so I have to go with that. Considering, I will be digging quite a bit of it up, I decided it was not worth the hassle to fight over what kind of grass to use.

Boxturtle - the lot is .9 acres. There are some big trees on the property that I would like to keep. I am assuming once the house and pool go in, I will have about half an acre left to plant fruit trees, vegetables, flowers. So, I will have to narrow down my wish list. I would need a lot more land to plant everything I would like to have!

Cookie Monster - No HOA! One of the things I really liked about this lot, along with the fact that it also had everything else on my checklist. I will check out the Sennigers. I have a lot of reading to do about irrigation systems. I am not very familiar with the set-ups. All of my gardening is done in pots that I hand water or use a Rainbird drip irrigation system for when I travel.
Jeff  :-)

spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 06:06:13 PM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 06:09:34 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 07:19:34 PM »
Agree. I have over 80 fruit trees on .6 acres here, all with adequate spacing.

You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.
Jeff  :-)

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 07:31:42 PM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.

This is a really, really good idea. I regret not running the wire... now I have to go back and trench in the wire. Its only maybe 2000 feet of wire....only.

spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 09:36:06 PM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.

This is a really, really good idea. I regret not running the wire... now I have to go back and trench in the wire. Its only maybe 2000 feet of wire....only.

I have trenched and run probably 1000ft of additional pipes ranging in size from 2", 1.5" feeds , and 1" valved lines since moving to my place.  Number one regret is not adding more wire next to the pipe.  Its not a bad idea to use a  3/4 conduit on the 12 conductor line.  And throw in some 2 conductors and stub up some places to get wire out for 12V LED lighting if necessary also.  Remember 1 conductor is a shared ground so 12 is better than 6.  Conduit for the wire, do it right the first time.  I've screwed this up and regret not running lighting wires or more conductors or not using conduit.  Whatever you think you need for wires and water pipes, do more.  And go bigger if possible.  If you have a 1.5" feed to your house run that out to your garden and T off 1" valves off it.  Then you can run 3 or 4 stations at a time. 
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 09:45:59 PM »
Use schedule 40 pipe too.  These house builders put in that paper thin garbage that breaks if you look at it funny just to save a few bucks.
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2017, 10:03:13 PM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.

This is a really, really good idea. I regret not running the wire... now I have to go back and trench in the wire. Its only maybe 2000 feet of wire....only.

Frank, what do you need sprinklers for?  Dont you get enough rain to grow everything with?  Seemed like it rained all the time when we visited your island.
Brad Spaugh

FruitFreak

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2017, 10:35:13 PM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.

This is a really, really good idea. I regret not running the wire... now I have to go back and trench in the wire. Its only maybe 2000 feet of wire....only.

I have trenched and run probably 1000ft of additional pipes ranging in size from 2", 1.5" feeds , and 1" valved lines since moving to my place.  Number one regret is not adding more wire next to the pipe.  Its not a bad idea to use a  3/4 conduit on the 12 conductor line.  And throw in some 2 conductors and stub up some places to get wire out for 12V LED lighting if necessary also.  Remember 1 conductor is a shared ground so 12 is better than 6.  Conduit for the wire, do it right the first time.  I've screwed this up and regret not running lighting wires or more conductors or not using conduit.  Whatever you think you need for wires and water pipes, do more.  And go bigger if possible.  If you have a 1.5" feed to your house run that out to your garden and T off 1" valves off it.  Then you can run 3 or 4 stations at a time.

Another option is to forgo all of the wiring and just use Bluetooth controllers with solenoid gate valves.  Not sure how they would work for all applications but I think they are amazing.  Easily programmed and controled from your phone. 
- Marley

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2017, 03:04:56 AM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.

This is a really, really good idea. I regret not running the wire... now I have to go back and trench in the wire. Its only maybe 2000 feet of wire....only.

Frank, what do you need sprinklers for?  Dont you get enough rain to grow everything with?  Seemed like it rained all the time when we visited your island.

We are on a dry spell. Dug a trench today, 2.5feet down, it was like flour.... I finished trenching irrigation and immediately got the hose to water trees. I think this year we had a couple solid rains, but we are way under typical rainfall (for this year its been maybe 8", when its typically 40"+). The problem is it rains 4" in an hour, and then nothing for 4 weeks. The whole island is sloped with natural swales that go to larger swales so there is little water retention before its gone in the ocean.  A pond to catch rain water would help.

All the people vacationing must love it... for farmers its pretty bad. Cattle have to be moved, trees watered, grass is dying... it will bounce back. Just have to hold on.

When things get this dry, I get this eerie feeling about winter hurricanes.

mrtexas

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2017, 04:08:11 AM »
Before they lay the sod put out some landscape stones in 8 foot circles where you want fruit trees so they won't put sod there and ask them to mulch the circles. I requested 8 feet along my back 90 foot fence without sod. In my strip I don't even bother to bury the drip lines.
They were happy to save money not laying 700 ft2 of sod. Put in a drip system after you move in. Ask the landscapers for one controller for your drip system. You can run dozens of trees on drip in one zone. Run 1/2 inch drip line by lifting up the sod and slipping it under no more than 1" under the sod. You can put in a whole system for dozens of tree for $100. 1/2 inch line runs $10 for 100 feet for gosh sakes!  I like to run 1/2 inch for mains and circle each tree with 1/4 inch with built in drippers. Drip is the cheapest, easiest and best system you can put in. BTW request that the landscapers put your flower beds on a separate zone. I didn't ask and ended up with flower beds and lawn mixed together. I ended up buying a $35 faucet programmable timer for my flower beds and blocking off the flower bed spray nozzles installed by the landscapers. Scrubs don't need near the water lawns do.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 04:14:39 AM by mrtexas »

spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2017, 10:58:12 AM »
You can grow a lot of crap on half an acre trust me.  You will be a busy guy.  Do you know what size pipe your meter is?  I assume you get a pipe and meter for your house like they do it out here.  You probably want to get a 1" pipe and have 3 or 4 stations T off of it for later use on all your gardening stuff.  At least have them pop up several 1" pvc stubs and cap them off around where you will need it for sprinkler valves and hose bibs.  You can never have too many pipes and water around.  Have them put in 6 or 12 conductor sprinkler control wire along the pipe while the trenches are ipen for later use too.  You will want a sprinkler controller or 2 back at a 120v power source then run the 12 conductor line from there to where you need valves for your food trees.

This is a really, really good idea. I regret not running the wire... now I have to go back and trench in the wire. Its only maybe 2000 feet of wire....only.

Frank, what do you need sprinklers for?  Dont you get enough rain to grow everything with?  Seemed like it rained all the time when we visited your island.

We are on a dry spell. Dug a trench today, 2.5feet down, it was like flour.... I finished trenching irrigation and immediately got the hose to water trees. I think this year we had a couple solid rains, but we are way under typical rainfall (for this year its been maybe 8", when its typically 40"+). The problem is it rains 4" in an hour, and then nothing for 4 weeks. The whole island is sloped with natural swales that go to larger swales so there is little water retention before its gone in the ocean.  A pond to catch rain water would help.

All the people vacationing must love it... for farmers its pretty bad. Cattle have to be moved, trees watered, grass is dying... it will bounce back. Just have to hold on.

When things get this dry, I get this eerie feeling about winter hurricanes.

They need to build a dam on the west side of that volcano there and turn it into a reservoir.  Wettest place on earth right?  You think things get dry where you are, you should see my place.  I just weed eated a massive fire break around my house and won't have to mess with it until it rains again in 6 months.
Brad Spaugh

Jackson

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2017, 05:54:15 PM »
Cookie Monster - 80 trees on .6 acres!  I see that I have seriously underestimated how much I can grow on half an acre. I thought I would be lucky to fit 30 trees in that space :-)

Spaugh, Fruit Freak, Frank - thank-you for all your suggestions. I will confess that it is all Greek to me. Hopefully with a little research it will start to make sense.
Quote
Do you know what size pipe your meter is?
I don't have a clue.

MrTexas - the landscape stones is a good idea. Your irrigation suggestions are a little more familiar to me than Spaugh's because I have installed a Rainbird irrigation system for my potted plants.

Thanks again, everyone. I will look into everything suggested here.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2017, 10:48:29 PM »
Yep. With a 15 foot spacing, you can easily get about 35 per 1/4 acre.

Cookie Monster - 80 trees on .6 acres!  I see that I have seriously underestimated how much I can grow on half an acre. I thought I would be lucky to fit 30 trees in that space :-)
Jeff  :-)

spaugh

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2017, 11:45:37 PM »
MrTexas - the landscape stones is a good idea. Your irrigation suggestions are a little more familiar to me than Spaugh's because I have installed a Rainbird irrigation system for my potted plants.

I use rainbird sprinkler controllers and rainbird pro 1" anti syphon valves.  All stuff from home depot.  Just bigger pipes than a small yard would have. Nothing exotic. 

Your property will have a big pipe probably 1" or 1.5".  Just ask them to bring the full unrestricted pipe out to the grow area.  Then you will have the largest pipe that can flow the most water at once to work with.  You don't want to choke the main gardening supply line down at all.  Its very convenient to run everything at the same time if possible. 
Brad Spaugh

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Need help figuring out when to set up irrigation.
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 02:25:34 AM »
MrTexas - the landscape stones is a good idea. Your irrigation suggestions are a little more familiar to me than Spaugh's because I have installed a Rainbird irrigation system for my potted plants.

I use rainbird sprinkler controllers and rainbird pro 1" anti syphon valves.  All stuff from home depot.  Just bigger pipes than a small yard would have. Nothing exotic. 

Your property will have a big pipe probably 1" or 1.5".  Just ask them to bring the full unrestricted pipe out to the grow area.  Then you will have the largest pipe that can flow the most water at once to work with.  You don't want to choke the main gardening supply line down at all.  Its very convenient to run everything at the same time if possible.

This guy knows his stuff. Go big.... 1.5".

I ran 2", 1000' into a newly cleared 1.5 acre zone @90+PSI, I can only water a quarter of it at a given time. As big as affordable is my new motto.