Questions on durian and mangosteen

[AnnonaMangoLord45]

Hello everyone, I am building a greenhouse soon with some spare wood, glass, and polyethylene. As I am going on a trip to Thailand in the summer, what height durians and mangosteens fruit minimally, and how long will these seeds last in proper packaging? Thank you for your time, Matt

[Daintree]

Hi Matt,
I have brought both these back from my travels, and they are both recalcitrant, so don't try to dry them out. When I travel, I have a seed collecting kit that I take with me, and in addition to paper envelopes for dry-able seeds, I have a bag of dehydrated "water beads" and a bunch of ziplock bags for recalcitrant seeds.  Once you clean the seeds, put them in a bag with some rehydrated water beads.  Then they are good for about a week if you are lucky, so shop at the end of your trip. 

Warning about durian - DON'T try to take one into your hotel.  You might need to sit outside to clean the seeds.  I wanted to clean my durian seeds on our cruise ship, and they could smell me a mile away.  Had to suck the pulp off the seeds over a garbage can on the dock and then put them in double ziplock bags and wash my hands about three times. To get the best seeds, you want a really over-ripe durian, like one that has fallen to the ground and split.

Also, you may need to open a lot of mangosteens to find viable seeds.

Don't be surprised if the seeds sprout in the water beads on the way home.  Just plant them, beads and all.  And make sure you have your USDA permit with you, and are flying into a city with a USDA check station. Those beagles at the airports are GOOD.  You don't want to have to ditch your seeds!

Other folks may have more or better ideas, but I have brought a lot of recalcitrant seeds home from trips, and this is what works best for me.  Have a fun trip!!

Carolyn

[Mike T]

Use lots of slightly moistened vermiculite or equivalent in the slightly perforated ziplock bag.The seeds should be very clean and slightly dried.You might be surprised at how long they will survive.

[Finca La Isla]

I'd say the seeds could last at least 3 weeks, not too dry, not too wet.  The thing is that the seeds might germinate and still be fine to work with but I remember someone having trouble with germinated salak seeds at the inspection.  Something like they weren't seeds any longer but live plants and that was different.
Peter

[noochka1]

I've imported dozens of durian seeds from Asia by mail with a small lot permit and, as long as they are packed loosely in moist spaghnum moss, they do just fine for 3 or 4 weeks in transit.  In fact, they often sprout en route - which is a huge bonus.  None of my sprouted seeds have ever been detained or confiscated by USDA.  My advice is to mail them to yourself with your small lot USDA permit and correct labels.   

[Samu]

Hi noochka1,

I am really interested in how would you be able to "send in your seeds and mail them to yourself, with a small lot USDA permit and correct labels"??.

You meant, you fill out one of the form: like USDA's PPQ 587? If not, which forms do I need? Do you mind if you would explain the process in more details?

Sorry for all this questioning, if you prefer you can PM me...thanks a lot!
Sam

[Daintree]

I have a P587 too, so I can answer that. Also, there is an old thread that explains a lot of this.
You apply for the P587 "small lot of seeds" permit (it can all be done online now).  You can then bring in 50 packets of no more than 50 seeds each (way more than I ever need), each time you mail something.  When I applied for the permit and filled out the paperwork, under "countries of origin", I said "all approved countries", and for the list of genera, I said "all eligible taxa".  This way, as long as it isn't prohibited, you can generally bring in what you find. 

When you get the permit (allow at least 6 weeks, I would say), you get a copy of the permit and a bunch of labels with the address of the USDA location where you want your fruit to enter the country.  Because I live in Idaho, my stuff comes in through Seattle.  They are a really great bunch of folks up there, and I have never had any problems with them.

Then, when you are traveling and you find some seeds you want, you carefully clean and dry the seeds (some don't get dried), put them in little envelopes, carefully labelled, put these in a padded envelope with a copy of your permit and list of seeds that you are shipping (you have to have the common and botanical name, who collected it, and what country).  Make sure all the seed packages are correctly labeled - common and botanical name, seed packet number that matches the list you made.

Before I travel, I always prepare my padded mailing envelope, numbered envelopes, the green and yellow mailing labels that came with your permit, blank seed lists, several copies of my permit, plus stick-on labels with MY name and address on them, and keep them in my seed collecting kit (aka-my hot pink Hello Kitty lunch bag...) that I ALWAYS travel with.  Then when you collect seeds, you mail them to the USDA entry point.  Once they have given them the once-over, they forward the package to you.  This is usually easier than hand-carrying your seeds home, when you must re-enter the country at a port with a USDA check station during work hours, then maybe wait in line for hours at the inspection station. That being said, I have done both and never had a problem.  Check out the following USDA link for more info.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/ct_plants_for_planting_home

It is SO fun to collect seeds when you travel!!!

Carolyn

[sildanani]

I have a P587 too, so I can answer that. Also, there is an old thread that explains a lot of this.
You apply for the P587 "small lot of seeds" permit (it can all be done online now).  You can then bring in 50 packets of no more than 50 seeds each (way more than I ever need), each time you mail something.  When I applied for the permit and filled out the paperwork, under "countries of origin", I said "all approved countries", and for the list of genera, I said "all eligible taxa".  This way, as long as it isn't prohibited, you can generally bring in what you find. 

When you get the permit (allow at least 6 weeks, I would say), you get a copy of the permit and a bunch of labels with the address of the USDA location where you want your fruit to enter the country.  Because I live in Idaho, my stuff comes in through Seattle.  They are a really great bunch of folks up there, and I have never had any problems with them.

Then, when you are traveling and you find some seeds you want, you carefully clean and dry the seeds (some don't get dried), put them in little envelopes, carefully labelled, put these in a padded envelope with a copy of your permit and list of seeds that you are shipping (you have to have the common and botanical name, who collected it, and what country).  Make sure all the seed packages are correctly labeled - common and botanical name, seed packet number that matches the list you made.

Before I travel, I always prepare my padded mailing envelope, numbered envelopes, the green and yellow mailing labels that came with your permit, blank seed lists, several copies of my permit, plus stick-on labels with MY name and address on them, and keep them in my seed collecting kit (aka-my hot pink Hello Kitty lunch bag...) that I ALWAYS travel with.  Then when you collect seeds, you mail them to the USDA entry point.  Once they have given them the once-over, they forward the package to you.  This is usually easier than hand-carrying your seeds home, when you must re-enter the country at a port with a USDA check station during work hours, then maybe wait in line for hours at the inspection station. That being said, I have done both and never had a problem.  Check out the following USDA link for more info.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/planthealth/import-information/permits/plants-and-plant-products-permits/plants-for-planting/ct_plants_for_planting_home

It is SO fun to collect seeds when you travel!!!

Carolyn

Thanks for that Carolyn. I just learned that my university is offering a study abroad trip to Costa Rica, and I'd definitely want to bring seeds back. It's nice hearing people's experiences in addition to viewing the USDA website.

[Samu]

Indeed, extra thank you to Carolyn for spending the time to elaborate in more details on this "process".
I've just printed many of the publications/forms from USDA site, lots of stuff to read and learn... 

Update: I just found out that sending magnifera spp. (mango) is prohibited...seeds nor cuttings...    "sad" "sad" "sad" 01:40 pm