Author Topic: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?  (Read 5138 times)

Jani

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Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« on: April 11, 2017, 01:55:16 PM »
Wife recently went down to Jamaica and had some of these. She was told they were Chinese Guineps which is term on the island I'm familiar with but usually in reference to lychees. Not sure what these are, but she described the taste and texture as similar to fruit from our sweet heart lychee tree. Skin remains green when ripe and  the plentiful flesh separates easily from the seed. I'll try to ask her uncle who gave her the fruit, more about where he got them from, what the tree looks like etc. But does anyone recognize? I have a few seeds that I will plant and see what happens.

I'll post pics of the seeds later...








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HIfarm

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 03:04:46 PM »
I'm guessing Meliococcus bijugatus, known as Spanish lime or genip.  I haven't seen them in real life but they occur in the Caribbean region.

John

Jani

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 05:24:42 PM »
I'm guessing Meliococcus bijugatus, known as Spanish lime or genip.  I haven't seen them in real life but they occur in the Caribbean region.

John

nah not guinep we.grew up on those..completely different flesh, skin and seed color, the flesh doesnt cling to the seed like typical guinep.. been looking around online and it looks similar to pitomba... don't know much about those...
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HIfarm

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 09:41:20 PM »
Sorry about that, I was assuming it was a native and I don't think that there are too many native candidates.  I have seen pics of guinep with "orangey" to light "beigey" kind of flesh & I assumed that this must be an unusually light one.  I had missed that you said it was freestone.  Raul had posted about his "guayas" that he thought was M. oliviformis, which is freestone but that one had even more vividly colored flesh, as I recall.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16375.0
However, someone did post about what they thought was M. oliviformis v. intermedius which (if correctly identified) has flesh more in line with the color of yours.  Not sure if this is any help ...

John

Finca La Isla

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 10:30:52 PM »
It is interesting and puzzling.  Looking at the outside it really looks like some melioccocus.  Perhaps seeing the seed will help.
I think it would be out of season for the fruits we know as well.  The Guayas was in June and the mamoncillo we grow here in CR is just flowering for me now.  I'm not far from Jamaica.
Peter

BrianL

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 11:10:16 PM »
Genipa americana?

Gouralata

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 10:14:17 AM »
A kind of Pometia pinnata lost in West indies ?

Gouralata

pineislander

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 11:32:45 AM »
Ask if the fruit is common or rare. If common it could be Genip, if rare, probably Longan.

fruitlovers

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2017, 12:43:59 AM »
A kind of Pometia pinnata lost in West indies ?

Gouralata
Yes i agree. It looks like Fijian longan (Pometia pinnata).
Oscar

arvind

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 01:04:49 AM »
what you got there is a green matoa aka fijian longan.Lots of this species are cultivated near my area.Grows very fast even from seed similar to spondias dulcis

Jani

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2017, 02:49:25 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Seems like Fijian Longan is the surest answer....

by the way here is a pic of the seeds (they are a couple weeks old)...do these seeds help confirm/identify the species?

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arvind

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 08:18:04 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Seems like Fijian Longan is the surest answer....

by the way here is a pic of the seeds (they are a couple weeks old)...do these seeds help confirm/identify the species?


Indeed a matoa fruit.heres some link with the pictures of various matoas and their seed

http://bombasticborneo.com/2013/01/crystal-fruit/
http://food.detik.com/read/2012/07/20/172159/1970904/297/buah-matoa-manis-legit-kaya-manfaat

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fruitlovers

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2017, 04:00:17 AM »
Yes the seeds confirm it is Fijian longan. Maybe Matoa is a better name, as they are neither longans nor from Fiji. The seeds are very highly perishable so if you want plants you need to plant immediately.
Oscar

Mike T

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2017, 05:41:05 AM »
Fiji Longan alright. The confusing thing with this species is that there are two general forms perhaps subspecies. The common smaller, hard and thick shelled ones that come in black, green, yellow, red, purple etc often called matoa and grown extensively in new guinea and nearby islands especially New Britain and New Ireland as well as Fiji.Flesh ranges from yellow to opaque white and the hard shell makes the travel well.
The second and rarer form is larger,with thinner rubbery skin,has much more flesh and is found wild in New Guinea and Fiji and is present in New Britain also. That is the fruit in the picture,One of my white whales is such a fruit that was brought from a seed collected from a wild tree in Fiji to my area and exists as a single tree.It has particularly large and luscious fruit and I posted a picture in a thread here that a friend sent to me.

Mike T

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2017, 05:42:56 AM »
Oh yeah search for the thread giant Fiji longan,

pineislander

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2017, 06:37:42 AM »
Very cool that a Fijian fruit has found it's way to Jamaica.

Jani

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2017, 06:55:21 AM »
yes definitely cool, thanks for the help all in identifying (I eill check out the thread).

so do these come true from seed? And are were talking 10, 12, 15 etc years to bear from seed like lychee?
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Mike T

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2017, 07:08:21 AM »
More like 5 or 6 years and they are a brittle upright and tall tree. They grow true. They may have been carried by people and originated in New Guinea a bit like breadfruit. Breadfruit is another more complicated story. The name Fiji longan is probably too ingrained to change .For that matter custard apple and pineapple don't look like changing and Mexican or Tahitian limes are geographically not quite right.

Jani

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2017, 01:25:43 PM »
ok cool, 5 years isn't that bad especially since they come true. Planted my two seeds, hopefully they sprout, I had them sitting for a couple weeks
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Mike T

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2017, 04:47:35 PM »
Don't like your chances with the seeds after a couple of weeks. They are very prone to drying and rotting for that matter and have a short viability.

Guanabanus

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2017, 04:40:57 PM »
There is also a very nice Talisia species from Belize, that Possum Trot Nursery in Homestead has or had.
Har

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 08:38:07 PM »
Have a look at Google Maps at the following website for information on where Pometia pinnata is suited to grown in Jamaica.

http://www.iplantz.com/plant/1275/pometia-pinnata

Mike T

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Re: Anyone know what this possible Sapindaceae is?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2017, 09:25:54 AM »
I found an article about Fiji longan varieties grown in my hometown from 1984 and here is an extract,

From the seedling stage the trees take 3 to 4 years to bear. Their frost tolerance is as yet unknown.
No clonal varieties have been named yet, although 5 different types of seedlings are now growing in the Cairns area. They are:
(1) The smaller brown-skinned type from Irian Jaya.
(2) The round green type from Fiji.
(3) The large, soft-skinned type from New Ireland.
(4) The purple and green hard-shelled type from New Britain.
(5) The hard-shelled green and red fruit from Wewak in Papua New Guinea.
The fruit is known under the names "Taun" Matoa, Fiji Longan, and Dawa.
People who know the fruit speak highly of it, although commercially, it is sold only in local markets in its native area. The tree is reported to grow well in soils with a high pH factor.
The tree is one of Papua New Guinea's most commercial timbers and is exported as "Taun". It reaches a height of 30 metres (100 ft) in the jungle, but when grown in the open (in backyards), it reaches about 15 metres and is similar in shape to a small mango tree.
John Marshall
DATE: May 1984

The New Ireland one sounds like a good match for the one originally pictured in this thread. Similar forms also seem to be present in PNG,New Britian and Fiji.