Jake Mace & John Kohler meet & greet tomorrow sunday @ L.A.

[gozp]

Anyone going?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pam0TLYODVA

[simon_grow]

Both Jake and John seem like really cool guys that I can get along with easily. Unfortunately I have to work tomorrow and it's quite a long drive so I won't be able to make it. I respect both of them and enjoy watching their informative videos. Maybe one of these days, they can make it to a SoCal Mango or Annona tasting!

Simon

[AndrewAZ]

Jakes mace gives a lot of false information on his videos.  Most people that know how to garden in AZ consider him a complete clown.

[simon_grow]

Can you elaborate on some of the more significant dissemination of misinformation? If he is giving out wrong information, we should try to let him know so that gardeners will not kill their trees.

Simon

[sg128]

Don't these guys both promote azomite rock dust in their videos? That stuff is expensive and practically useless as far as I'm concerned.

[simon_grow]

Don't these guys both promote azomite rock dust in their videos? That stuff is expensive and practically useless as far as I'm concerned.

Just wondering why you feel it's practically useless?

Rock dust as with all plant mineral/nutritional supplements must be used properly to take full advantage of its benefits. This video gives a brief talk about how it can be used properly and improperly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3749rxFCw

Another example that gardeners should become educated with what they use on their plants before using the product is when foliar spraying. Foliar spraying a plant in the middle of Winter without a non ionic surfactant during relative metabolic inactivity the day before it rains is likely not going to give you the same results as foliar spraying with a surfactant on newer growth in the early morning or evening during warmer weather with increased metabolic activity in the plant.

Simon

[AndrewAZ]

Yeah, states rootstock abs grafting is a waste of time because he will show you how to modify your soil for any plant.  Has tons of sights that are supposedly educational, but, just are advertisements for him and his business.  Promotes planting some plants that are mostly tropical and says they will grow no problem in AZ, but, next cold winter we get they will all be toast.  Has no educational background to support the claims he makes.  Promotes all these soil additives as being necessary, when they are not, and low and behold he has them all for sale. 
Promotes extremely waterm thirsty plants for the desert.  Promotes products with high amount's of nitrogen and phosphates which, with, storm run off, polutes strrams and wate supplies.

[greenman62]

i think Jake may be a bit ignorant on a few facts,
but i dont think he is a scam artist at all, and there are lots of those around.'
i dont think he has ever claimed to be an expert or have a degree in anything relative.
He does have papaya and several other subtropicals growing on his property.
He shows that shade and lots of woody mulch can help conserve water and protect plants.
he points out certain plants that can grow and fruit in the area.
For the person starting out and wanting to grow a fruit tree, its not all bad info,
even if he is ignorant on certain things.

[sg128]

Don't these guys both promote azomite rock dust in their videos? That stuff is expensive and practically useless as far as I'm concerned.

Just wondering why you feel it's practically useless?

Rock dust as with all plant mineral/nutritional supplements must be used properly to take full advantage of its benefits. This video gives a brief talk about how it can be used properly and improperly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3749rxFCw

Another example that gardeners should become educated with what they use on their plants before using the product is when foliar spraying. Foliar spraying a plant in the middle of Winter without a non ionic surfactant during relative metabolic inactivity the day before it rains is likely not going to give you the same results as foliar spraying with a surfactant on newer growth in the early morning or evening during warmer weather with increased metabolic activity in the plant.

Simon

Well perhaps I was using it improperly, but when I was using it I didn't notice any benefits whatsoever.  I know of others who have experimented with it and also not seen any positive results.
You can watch these videos done by a youtube user who ran a series of field trails using rock dust.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5mfR-r4BXH1WwrNIH29H-KI4LGrEfHFd
The results are pretty interesting.

[RodneyS]

Don't these guys both promote azomite rock dust in their videos? That stuff is expensive and practically useless as far as I'm concerned.

Just wondering why you feel it's practically useless?

Rock dust as with all plant mineral/nutritional supplements must be used properly to take full advantage of its benefits. This video gives a brief talk about how it can be used properly and improperly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xh3749rxFCw

Another example that gardeners should become educated with what they use on their plants before using the product is when foliar spraying. Foliar spraying a plant in the middle of Winter without a non ionic surfactant during relative metabolic inactivity the day before it rains is likely not going to give you the same results as foliar spraying with a surfactant on newer growth in the early morning or evening during warmer weather with increased metabolic activity in the plant.

Simon

Well perhaps I was using it improperly, but when I was using it I didn't notice any benefits whatsoever.  I know of others who have experimented with it and also not seen any positive results.
You can watch these videos done by a youtube user who ran a series of field trails using rock dust.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5mfR-r4BXH1WwrNIH29H-KI4LGrEfHFd
The results are pretty interesting.

Also check out OneYardRevolution's youtube channel. 
https://www.youtube.com/user/OneYardRevolution

[spaugh]

I asked Jake what his monthly water bill was on youtube but didn't get an answer

[spaugh]

People do seem to get worked up about rock dust too.  Its kind of funny that so many people are mad about rock dust online.  At 1$ a pound its cheap enough to at least try.  Its powdered lava rock.  All the good stuff is down there in the center of the earth.  Its like the periodic table in a bag.

[raimeiken]

.

[AndrewAZ]

There are about 4 or 5 guys in Phoenix metro that self promote their products and trees.  They all act like experts, until someone calls them out on what they are doing as completely wrong.  Then they will admit they are amateurs.  Otherwise, they infer they are experts.  They also like to say things like, don't listen to the garden experts, you don't have to listen to what university agricultural sites say you can and cannot grow.  And on these same sites, they will block you if you too frequently correct their mistakes. 
I have seen people do this a lot in the past.  I used to grow palms in southern VA.  Then, people come in selling their palms, when in fact their palms are good for so. FL. 
I mean it shouldn't bother me too much because they affect me, but, when I see people out of state excited that he is coming to speak, it just seems so sleazy to me.

[simon_grow]

We are all free to form our own opinions about people but I just want to make sure there are hard facts that prove or disprove anything that could be considered slander against an individual or group of people, not that anyone is slandering but that would depend on the intent of the persons making the statements and how the individual being spoken about interprets such statements.

I appreciate those that brought up the potential issues as I feel they are just looking out for us forum members and don't want us getting any misinformation.

I am not followers of John and Jake although I have seen many of their videos and appreciate the work they do in making their videos. Yes, they sell products and make a living off their videos but I'm not going to hold it against them doing it, heck, I would do the same if I were good in front of a camera.

John has great videos on juicers, which he sells but the videos are very informational and helped me to decide on which make and model I purchased to juice my wheatgrass and other veggies. John also has many videos that show you how to grow many greens.

Jake has some great videos as well, I especially like the video he and Shamus O'Leary made on the huge Avocado and Mango trees growing in Arizona. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jd122RCGySg

Back on the subject of rock dust and nutrient needs for plants, if nutrients are already available in the soil supplementing with additional minerals may not show any added benefit, especially if the mineral is not broken down and made bioavailable by following appropriate horticultural techniques.

Rock dust on clay soils which are mineral rich may not make sense but addition of rock dust to potted plants which are grown in depleted potting soils which are frequently watered may be able to help re mineralize the soil if compost and mulch are utilized properly along with beneficial soil organisms.

Simon

[AndrewAZ]

Not trying to slander anyone.  For the record, gardening is my past time.  Regular job is dr.  Shamus is worse than Jake.  Hi new nickname on the Internet is shameless.  He makes even worse claims.  I guess, the other thing I don't like is that there are really good places out here for fruit trees, tropicamango,  a tropical concept, RSI nurseries.  These are great places to buy, the owners have a wealth of information and will talk you out of purchases if they think you are going to kill a tree.  But, because they don't go shirtless on the Internet or completely nude, they are all just old foggies that don't know what they are talking about.
If you have to educate yourself first to figure out what parts Jake and shamus say are true, versus total bs, then I wouldn't say they are good people to learn about gardening.

[simon_grow]

Not trying to slander anyone.  For the record, gardening is my past time.  Regular job is dr.  Shamus is worse than Jake.  Hi new nickname on the Internet is shameless.  He makes even worse claims.  I guess, the other thing I don't like is that there are really good places out here for fruit trees, tropicamango,  a tropical concept, RSI nurseries.  These are great places to buy, the owners have a wealth of information and will talk you out of purchases if they think you are going to kill a tree.  But, because they don't go shirtless on the Internet or completely nude, they are all just old foggies that don't know what they are talking about.
If you have to educate yourself first to figure out what parts Jake and shamus say are true, versus total bs, then I wouldn't say they are good people to learn about gardening.

Andrew, you seem like you've been gardening long enough to be able to discern the differences between good and bad horticultural techniques. Why not use what you have learned to discuss the bad techniques and practices that you claim Jake and Shamus make in order to educate newer gardeners? Criticism and accusations are easy to make, especially if they are broad and general without specific details.

When I try to help our newer members out with questions they have, I try to give them very specific answers but it is Extremely difficult because in order to help people diagnose an issue, you have to know their exact growing conditions because what may seem like something minor and insignificant such as the pH of the water can have drastic effects on the plant. Trying to help out members by answering questions is an arduous task and one answer does not fit all situations.

Take for example the hypothetical question a new member might ask "why are my leaves yellow"? First you have to find out their growing conditions such as the pH of their water, soil, how and what they fertilize with, etc... From my perspective, Jake, Shamus and John are helping gardeners by making their videos and although they may not give you all the specific information on how to grow a plant to its full potential, they are giving out more information than a keyboard warrior that only points out very general flaws in other people's advice or instructional videos.

I am not and I don't claim to be an expert gardener, in fact I'm a newbie compared to some of the founding fathers and mothers of the California Rare Fruit Growers Association but I still like to help people where I can. Sometimes I will give out wrong information because I miss typed, miss read the question or any other number of reasons but other members more knowledgeable than myself will often correct my mistakes and explain why my rationale was in fault and in doing so I learn from my mistakes.

It is easy to cry wolf but the more beneficial and practical approach would be to do the leg work and fix the issue by calling the animal control people.

Simon

[ricshaw]

Both Jake and John seem like really cool guys that I can get along with easily. Unfortunately I have to work tomorrow and it's quite a long drive so I won't be able to make it. I respect both of them and enjoy watching their informative videos. Maybe one of these days, they can make it to a SoCal Mango or Annona tasting!
Simon

IMO Jake Mace and John Kohler biggest strengths are they are very comfortable in front of a video camera and entertaining to watch.

[mangomanic12]

Simon Andrew has some valid points.

I think Shamus is a good guy overall. I like him.
Jake I don't know ( he seems kinda / flaky/ kinda more into it for the "attention" money , , celebrity  , hey look at me sorta thing ... that's the vibe I pick up from him  ...again I could be wrong but I go with my gut!!

My 1 major deal with all this is, I believe a few of the plants Jake has are already mature specimens when bought and - NO ONE MENTIONS THAT !!
I have a huge problem with this........ It's kinda like lying by omission.
Most people cannot afford these huge specimens only 3 gal or so and quite a few of those will struggle out here and eventually die.

There is a couple other things ,but I do not want to harm another man's business. Overall they are a good thing to have out here. Just would like to have  a little more transparancy / honesty ...that's all.




That makes a huge difference in the way they look and perform.

[simon_grow]

Thanks for your the explanation but I don't feel they are purposefully misleading viewers as Jake actually has videos demonstrating how he plants his trees. Not only that, he shows his failures such as his dead supposedly cold Hardy Mango that he got from the Mangoprofessor.

In extreme climates, planting larger trees may be beneficial as they can possibly withstand more extreme weather but but the opposite may actually be true as you can see from the video I posted of the lady with huge Avocado and Mango trees that were planted from seeds. Jakes videos provide data points from which we can draw our own conclusions. Perhaps planting large trees is better, perhaps planting seedlings is better, perhaps they both work well. Either way, without Jake posting those videos, we would not have as many data points to draw our conclusions.

For the Arizona members and even members in other states that want huge Mango trees, were you not inspired by the video of those huge mango trees?

Simon

[mangomanic12]

Simon , it's funny I actually know the lady that has those huge trees.
I work 10 min from her.
She is a gem.  I saw her 2 weeks ago and she gave me some frozen pulp from her trees from last year Very nice lady but private. She doesn't allow many people to come by unless she likes you. I guess I am fortunate.
BTW All her mango trees are the same kind/genetics . All seed grown small but very sweet mangoes w/ fiber. She has no interest in grafting.
 Trees are above her roof some planted as closely as 3 ft . All her trees thrive. The genetics from these seeds are perfect for our climate I guess.
Her neighbor has three of her juvenile trees and they thrive just as well even when it's 115 degrees here. Trust me I know because  I drove up there at lunch one day to see for myself.

[spaugh]

There was a video of Jake putting some compost and mulch down on a gigantic loquat tree that was pretty impressive.  Then there was one where he had someone doing some pvc pipe work in his yard.  I was cringing watching these guys do the plumbing using a cutoff wheel on the pipe while the other guy held it.  Time to invest in a set of pvc cutters.  The guy is a bit over the top but he still has a few interesting videos.  Its a cool yard to look at anyway. 

[simon_grow]

Mangomanic12, you are so lucky to work close by her. I hope you guys and gals grow those seedlings and spread them around as they seem to perform well over there. I know it was mentioned that the trees have sentimental value for her because of her mom but I wonder if she would let someone graft on a small branch of Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart or another top tier variety? I bet she could be persuaded if someone brought her some fruit from top tier varieties.

gozp, I apologize for hijacking your thread.

Simon

[zands]

Simon , it's funny I actually know the lady that has those huge trees.
I work 10 min from her.
She is a gem.  I saw her 2 weeks ago and she gave me some frozen pulp from her trees from last year Very nice lady but private. She doesn't allow many people to come by unless she likes you. I guess I am fortunate.
BTW All her mango trees are the same kind/genetics . All seed grown small but very sweet mangoes w/ fiber. She has no interest in grafting.
 Trees are above her roof some planted as closely as 3 ft . All her trees thrive. The genetics from these seeds are perfect for our climate I guess.
Her neighbor has three of her juvenile trees and they thrive just as well even when it's 115 degrees here. Trust me I know because  I drove up there at lunch one day to see for myself.

Those towering fruit trees are famous here in Florida.... at least with me. I have seen the video. I have seen about ten of Jake and Shamus youtube videos. They are doing good and spreading lots of positive information

[gozp]

No need to apologize ,Simon.


I am actually enjoying this thread with ur knowledge.

As yes, microclimate is important to grow tropical fruit trees then drainage.

I enjoy watching jake & shamus as what they reach out to the gardening  community ia truly informational.

Jake may be a business-minded person, & none of that matters as what he is sharing to the community is his personal experience growing tropical fruit bearing trees. (Who are we to tell him he promotes this & that?)

Some may hate or love the guy, but that doesnt affect his success growing them. Hahaha