The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Mike T on August 03, 2012, 02:32:58 AM
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(http://s18.postimage.org/lsujvnndx/DSCF4984.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lsujvnndx/)
How do I know what is a canistel and what is the real ross sapote? There are alot of variations in round ones with size,skin color,flesh moisture,flesh color and seed number all seemingly different in ones I see.Are there half way ones ......ross canistels perhaps?
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On the tree it's very easy to tell ross sapote apart from canistel because ross sapote fruits in bunches, canistel fruits singly. Also when ross sapote fruits are unripe they have strong longitudunal striping. Once they ripen up striping is still there but more faded. You can also see some longitudunal ridges on the fruits. Ross sapote fruits tend to be smaller, more flattened in shape than most canistels. Here is a photo of some ripe ross sapotes:
(http://fruitlovers.com/Gallery1/RossSapoteTray.jpg)
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Thanks Oscar now I have something to hang it on.A few in the stall apparently off the same tree had those ridges so it may be a part Ross.My Ross in the yard has its first flowers on one branch they are a bit bunchy with 2 flowers coming out of each node.On the second flowering branch they are sparsely spread along it in singles.I think it was Adam who said the picture didn't look like the usual Ross.I suspect they are not pure Ross's here.
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Hi,
I have a canistel that fruited in bunches.
It is a canistel for sure because the fruits are a bit curved and pointed.
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saifu that is right they were not flattened on the bottom, thanks for the certainty.
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'Trompo' Canistel often fruits in bunches.
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(http://s17.postimage.org/uailbgw17/DSCF5000.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/uailbgw17/)
The common supermarket canistel (sold as yellow sapote) in NQ I am told is a fairchild but which of the 2 I don't know.I picked up this 1 lber today and hope it has rich, sweet and moist flesh like a good canistel should.
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(http://s8.postimage.org/ntomn77sx/DSCF5005.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ntomn77sx/)
Sorry about the bad picture but my rosssapote has its first flowers.They are sparsely spread and back along twigs from the growing tips.About half are singles and the other half have 2 flowers coming from the one point.
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Are the seeds between the two distinguishable?
-Luke
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They do look the same but the Canistel seed ( mine anyway ) are larger - more elongated
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The 'definate canistel' in the initial picture had small squat seeds just like the ross sapotes in Oscars' photo.
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Are the seeds between the two distinguishable?
-Luke
Smaller ross sapote fruits = smaller seeds. But they look the same.
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(http://s18.postimage.org/46wh0b9w5/DSCF5014.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/46wh0b9w5/)
Oscar that is usually the case with larger canistels having larger seeds.The small, thin,elongated rib necked canistel has long large seeds.The smaller, squat seeds on the left are from a large round 'definate canistel' of the type pictured below and look the same as ross sapote to me.The very large smooth and clean skinned canistel types have seeds that are larger and more elongate again than both of these.
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Mike, there is a propper Ross in the BG here. I'll try to stop in this afternoon on my way home or tomorrow and take a pic. I find them easily distinguishable when compared side by side.
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(http://s11.postimage.org/4bf6nzmdr/DSCF5020.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4bf6nzmdr/)
(http://s10.postimage.org/i17gvcttx/DSCF5021.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/i17gvcttx/)
I have to admit to being a dummy when looking at canistel seeds.The giant single seeded ones have seeds that look like mameys to me, and the small seeded round types with 2 or 3 seeds have them that look like ross sapotes to me.These are just 3 types from the last week or so let alone the rest.
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Mike, the spindle type canistel, especailly very large ones, can have seeds that look in shape like that of mamey sapote. The difference is that the hilum on the mamey is usually narrower than the camistel. Also the mamey seed is usually darker brown than the canistel. Don't have photo of just these 2 seeds side by side, but you can get an idea of color difference here:
(http://fruitlovers.com/Gallery1/SapotesGroup.jpg)
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Thanks Oscar and great picture.
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here is the 'ross' from the BG here. It actually has an impressed end on most fruit, like a flat peach.
(http://s14.postimage.org/6r4073lr1/IMG_0465.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6r4073lr1/)
This is a well under ripe one a bat knocked down.
(http://s15.postimage.org/62jmjwo4n/IMG_0466.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/62jmjwo4n/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/ofgjjtmmp/IMG_0467.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ofgjjtmmp/)
(http://s12.postimage.org/4hsvr4djd/IMG_0470.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4hsvr4djd/)
Sorry for the crappy pics, but I only had the iPhone
here is the comparison with an unripe 'Aurea'
(http://s14.postimage.org/db6sdfzrx/IMG_0471.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/db6sdfzrx/)
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(http://s18.postimage.org/mpbpj1b11/DSCF5023.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mpbpj1b11/)
Thanks for the pix BMc I am a slow learner but I get it now.In the picture is the common ones around that look like aurea,trompo etc that I have in the kitchen.The round one was better and moister by the way.
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(http://s14.postimage.org/hm1xyp2x9/DSCF5114.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hm1xyp2x9/)
I am used to seeing canistels with one or 2 seeds inside.A work colleague brought some in from their very productive tree today and all have 4 seeds and are extra tasty.
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(http://s17.postimage.org/9w2ifgbwb/DSCF5115.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9w2ifgbwb/)
Here is a better photo
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(http://s17.postimage.org/9w2ifgbwb/DSCF5115.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9w2ifgbwb/)
Here is a better photo
Very cool. Most I have seen is two seeds. Is it from a named cultivar or was it from a seedling tree?
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M, it is from a seedling tree that was there when the people moved in.The flesh seems as good to me as the best named varieties being a little sweeter and moister than a Ross.
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Seedy fruits are often the tastier ones.
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Mike, I should also let you know that bats really love the fruits of Ross Sapote. They favour it over any of the otehr canistels, and most other fruit trees. Just a word of warning.
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Hello,
What is the difference in taste between Ross Sapote and Canistel? I found one reference on the Internet saying that Ross Sapote is slightly sweeter and has a fruitier taste. Is that accurate? If it is, it sounds pretty tasty to me.
Tomas
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Hello,
What is the difference in taste between Ross Sapote and Canistel? I found one reference on the Internet saying that Ross Sapote is slightly sweeter and has a fruitier s. Is that accurate? If it is, it sounds pretty tasty to me.
Tomas
I think main difference is that ross sapote is moister inside than most canistels. But there are some canistels that are equally moist and good. I don't think there is that much taste difference.
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Hello,
What is the difference in taste between Ross Sapote and Canistel? I found one reference on the Internet saying that Ross Sapote is slightly sweeter and has a fruitier taste. Is that accurate? If it is, it sounds pretty tasty to me.
Tomas
If the canistel you are used to eating is 'Bruce' (like most people down here), then the taste is significantly better. Fairchild #2 is supposed to taste very similar though....Jeff can speak to this.
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Hello,
What is the difference in taste between Ross Sapote and Canistel? I found one reference on the Internet saying that Ross Sapote is slightly sweeter and has a fruitier taste. Is that accurate? If it is, it sounds pretty tasty to me.
Tomas
If the canistel you are used to eating is 'Bruce' (like most people down here), then the taste is significantly better. Fairchild #2 is supposed to taste very similar though....Jeff can speak to this.
I would say the most common canistel in SFla is the canistel formerly known as 9681, or now known as Trompo.
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(http://s15.postimage.org/f2mnvy9h3/DSCF5164.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/f2mnvy9h3/)
The small orange canistel has seeds like a ross, is at least as moist and I think tastes better.There seems to be much variation in seedling trees.I wonder if this has some ross blood (sap).
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(http://s15.postimage.org/f2mnvy9h3/DSCF5164.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/f2mnvy9h3/)
The small orange canistel has seeds like a ross, is at least as moist and I think tastes better.There seems to be much variation in seedling trees.I wonder if this has some ross blood (sap).
Mike - how was the taste of those? Taste-wise, what would you most closely relate it to?
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It is like a ross but a feather sweeter with another flavor going on.... kinda smokey or nutty...hard to explain.It was very pasty but small with 2 large seeds. Lots od seedling were planted in the past and this is probably just a bit of variation from a standard type outcrossing.
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Had my arm twisted and came home with this..... Ross Sapote :)
Look happy- just needs some mulch and it will be good to go.
Does anyone have this tree? The book says its a moderate grower-to 30 feet. Any experiences?
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/nsobgyn/002-7.jpg)
thanks
Nat
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My experience is that it is a much slower grower than 'Trompo' or 'Aurea' or 'Bruce'.
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Thanks. Does that mean it will also be slower to fruit?
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Thanks. Does that mean it will also be slower to fruit?
Planted eggfruit (canistel) and ross sapotes side by side. The eggfruit are growing tiwce+ as fast and look a lot better. So my guess is yes, the ross sapote will be a lot slower to fruit.
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I have Ross do the first (and only) time at Harry's. it was a delight. I have 4 or 5 seedlings and a lot of patience. Much more moisture than canistel (which I also enjoy).
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(http://s1.postimage.org/fvxqy2hyj/DSCF5422.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fvxqy2hyj/)
Future I posted this picture of a Ross Sapote in another thread last week.I am pretty sure about the difference now with Ross being moist and vey nice.
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Oh yeah the marcotted Ross Sapote tee in my yard is a vigorous grower and much faster than my grafted canistel.
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I think marcottage is best in spring, summer for Canistel, and sapodilla... has anyone airlayered green sap or mamey?
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I have Ross do the first (and only) time at Harry's. it was a delight. I have 4 or 5 seedlings and a lot of patience. Much more moisture than canistel (which I also enjoy).
I have had canistel which was every bit as moist as the Ross. It is the flavor of the Ross that makes it better, IMO.
As to your Ross seedlings...they do not come true from seed so there is no telling what you will get once they fruit.
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I think it is possible to get lucky with seedlings.That whopper I am eating in the picture came from a seedling tree and was of excellent quality and size.
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I think it is possible to get lucky with seedlings.That whopper I am eating in the picture came from a seedling tree and was of excellent quality and size.
I agree you can get lucky with seedlings but as with any other fruit that does not come true from seed, it is a pure crapshoot and involves investing a lot of time and effort to not know what you will truly get (and I know a lot who do endure this time will state that their seedling fruit is outstanding regardless of actual quality).
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I believe Bill Whitman's Ross sapote was a seedling. Are the Florida nurseries grafting scion wood from that tree? I think most plants getting called Ross are seedlings.
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I believe Bill Whitman's Ross sapote was a seedling. Are the Florida nurseries grafting scion wood from that tree? I think most plants getting called Ross are seedlings.
Yes, I do believe Whitman's is a seedling but that obviously doesn't mean that every seedling will turn out like his or even of worthy quality. Lara Farms is grafting it as is at least one other nursery in SFla. I don't know of any nurseries selling "seedling" Ross' labeled as Ross (not to say they are not but since there is more of a demand and few people able to find them, I would stick to the the thought that nurseries are not selling Ross' that are seedlings).
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I believe Bill Whitman's Ross sapote was a seedling. Are the Florida nurseries grafting scion wood from that tree? I think most plants getting called Ross are seedlings.
Yes, I do believe Whitman's is a seedling but that obviously doesn't mean that every seedling will turn out like his or even of worthy quality. Lara Farms is grafting it as is at least one other nursery in SFla. I don't know of any nurseries selling "seedling" Ross' labeled as Ross (not to say they are not but since there is more of a demand and few people able to find them, I would stick to the the thought that nurseries are not selling Ross' that are seedlings).
My tree is grafted. Is is from the original Whitman tree?
Nat
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As to your Ross seedlings...they do not come true from seed so there is no telling what you will get once they fruit.
Noted. I live in a place where grafted trees are very very hard to come by (import restrictions, phytos etc.). Hence I have lots of patience and will wait and see what I get.
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As to your Ross seedlings...they do not come true from seed so there is no telling what you will get once they fruit.
Noted. I live in a place where grafted trees are very very hard to come by (import restrictions, phytos etc.). Hence I have lots of patience and will wait and see what I get.
Being that the "Ross" Sapote may not be a canistel at all you may end up with a fruit that is moist but more or less seedy and size/shaped differently. Lets just hope the moisture carries over!!
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I believe Bill Whitman's Ross sapote was a seedling. Are the Florida nurseries grafting scion wood from that tree? I think most plants getting called Ross are seedlings.
Yes, I do believe Whitman's is a seedling but that obviously doesn't mean that every seedling will turn out like his or even of worthy quality. Lara Farms is grafting it as is at least one other nursery in SFla. I don't know of any nurseries selling "seedling" Ross' labeled as Ross (not to say they are not but since there is more of a demand and few people able to find them, I would stick to the the thought that nurseries are not selling Ross' that are seedlings).
If the Ross is really a distinct species from the canistel, which i tend to believe it is, then planting from seed would maintain same species. Ofcourse even within that distinct species, whatever it is, there will be some variation. That may be why Mike T is seeing some very large Ross. I guess all the supposed Ross plants in Australia are seedlings? Certainly in Hawaii they are all seedlings. My guess is that a majority of the plants are seedlings, except maybe for a few plants in Florida.
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I believe Bill Whitman's Ross sapote was a seedling. Are the Florida nurseries grafting scion wood from that tree? I think most plants getting called Ross are seedlings.
Yes, I do believe Whitman's is a seedling but that obviously doesn't mean that every seedling will turn out like his or even of worthy quality. Lara Farms is grafting it as is at least one other nursery in SFla. I don't know of any nurseries selling "seedling" Ross' labeled as Ross (not to say they are not but since there is more of a demand and few people able to find them, I would stick to the the thought that nurseries are not selling Ross' that are seedlings).
If the Ross is really a distinct species from the canistel, which i tend to believe it is, then planting from seed would maintain same species. Ofcourse even within that distinct species, whatever it is, there will be some variation. That may be why Mike T is seeing some very large Ross. I guess all the supposed Ross plants in Australia are seedlings? Certainly in Hawaii they are all seedlings. My guess is that a majority of the plants are seedlings, except maybe for a few plants in Florida.
Some were brought in from the US as grafted plants and labelled Canistel cv. Ross Youngham. This is the label that the tree in the local BG is labelled as. It's growing int eh shade and is still prolific but pretty ratty. Seedlings from this tree come pretty true to type. Bats favor these over any canistel.
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Until recently most Ross Sapotes grown here in my neck of the woods were seedlings.Seedlings still dominate at local nurseries.There is some variation in color at the ripe stage,moisture level and size but the flavor seems to be good with all.Most look like those in Oscars photo with a bunch of them.My original confusion is due to desciptions of Ross in Florida not accommodating the variation.Also some of the small spherical canistels with dark squat seeds and moist flesh.Looking at the 2 in my yard I reckon they must be separate species.
BMc I wonder if the bats would favor the moist canistels over the dry fleshed ones?
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BMc I wonder if the bats would favor the moist canistels over the dry fleshed ones?
They generally prefer whatever is easier to get at. There is a big aurea canistel in the open 40ft from the Ross, but they do more damage to the smaller tree with smaller fruit in a harder spot to get to.
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So my tree has been in the ground for about a year - it is a very very slow grower..
Anyone else locally have this tree in the ground?
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I have a 'Ross' in the ground, about 15' tall, and slender.
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How long have u had it planted?
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(http://s8.postimage.org/ntomn77sx/DSCF5005.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ntomn77sx/)
Sorry about the bad picture but my rosssapote has its first flowers.They are sparsely spread and back along twigs from the growing tips.About half are singles and the other half have 2 flowers coming from the one point.
Mike ,
Do you know how long took hours to flower/ how tall it is?
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I don't remember.
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Any idea how many years for canistel or ross sapote fruits from seed?
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It pumps out the fruit like a machine now and has had ripe fruit in most seasons,Seedling Ross and canistel can take 4 years to fruit or as long as 7,marcots 2 to 3 years and I presume the same for grafted trees.
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Do Ross Sapote and Canistels have the same season?
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In most places they have the same season which will be over about 3/4 months.In my area and with my Ross fruiting 3 times a year at odd times and the canistel fruting mostly in winter they are different.I see canistel for sale in the markets over the coolest and driest 6 months of the year but this is a tropical climate.
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Good to know, thanks.
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It pumps out the fruit like a machine now and has had ripe fruit in most seasons,Seedling Ross and canistel can take 4 years to fruit or as long as 7,marcots 2 to 3 years and I presume the same for grafted trees.
I have one 8 years old , been flowering for 3 , no fruit set so far . I really don't remember the variety ( from seed ) but if I planted it it must have been good . I am not even sure if it is canistel or ross , is there a difference in the leaves ?
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I have one 8 years old , been flowering for 3 , no fruit set so far . I really don't remember the variety ( from seed ) but if I planted it it must have been good . I am not even sure if it is canistel or ross , is there a difference in the leaves ?
Aparently not, but I have never put them under a microscope. Maye under the microscope you could see differences...
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My first time fruiting a Canistel. When to pick? I wonder if this is the first USDA Certified Organic Ross Sapote? Thanks
(https://i.postimg.cc/w75g8SNV/0-A4-C65-C7-50-A7-4-F89-83-C5-A18554-C8-C75-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w75g8SNV)
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Turns fully yellow when ready to pick.
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Cut it off at stem after turning yellow. This will allow fruit to ripen indoors until really soft without splitting.
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Hello all. Thanks for resurrecting this old post! I have a question related to Canistel, and I wanted to try here before creating a separate post. I am told there are Canistel fruit, which most closely resemble the taste of Lucuma (Pouteria Lucuma), originally from South America. As there are so many varieties of Canistel, which would be best? As for the Lucuma fruit, it tastes like a sweet potato, ranges from dry to moist flesh, and makes excellent desserts, especially ice cream. Since it will mainly be a dessert ingredient, taste would be most important, with moisture content not being very important. Thanks in advance!
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I’ve heard Ora, also known as TREC, is a very good Canistel. Have one planted but it isn’t mature yet.
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I recently got and planted a ‘Trompo’ Canistel from Excalibur Nursery. Also considered: ‘Fairchild’ (1 & 2), ‘Aurea’ and ‘Aru’ (I guess it could be the same thing as Aurea).
I’ve learned that the taste of the ‘Fairchild’ (#1 or #2?) is near glorious. But, I rejected because it’s not as productive as ‘Trompo.’
I didn’t have enough info on the productivity and quality of ‘Aurea..’
I have a ‘Ross’ and I love the taste of the fruit. I’m pleased with the production. But, I consider the fruit size to be not serious. If the ‘LargeRoss’ variety mentioned on this Thread were to be propagated and available at my location in South Florida, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
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I take back what I said about the ‘Ross Sapote’ Fruit size not being serious. I’v had my grafted ‘Ross Sapote’ planted for about 5 years. And, this its first year ever where the fruit size is surprisingly and agreeably adequate (see photo). I’m quite pleased with this since I find the Quality of the ‘Ross Sapote’ as Excellent.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BL6MT7m5/7-DC3-C29-B-8530-4-C07-978-C-A21-B4-CEF8037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BL6MT7m5)
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Size of a fruit often depends on how well you feed the plants, quality of soil, and overall health of the plant, not just genetics. I notice also that as plants get older they get better established and tend to naturally produce larger fruits. But even in same crop there will be wide array of differently sized fruits.
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Ross Sapote season has started here. I love Ross Sapote, it’s definitely 1 of my many favorites. Some of our trees have started to produce well.
Mike you get 3 crops per year from Ross? Does anyone else get multiple crops at their location?
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I was young and stupid when I started that thread and now I'm old and stupid I am still trying to figure out this question. Yes the Ross usually has 3 crops a year.
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I was young and stupid when I started that thread and now I'm old and stupid I am still trying to figure out this question. Yes the Ross usually has 3 crops a year.
Me 2. I bought my 1st Ross Sapote 8 yrs. ago after reading your stupid post, this tree still hasn’t fruited. I sold that property and started over 4.5 yrs ago planted about 15 here, some are fruiting, more are flowering. They require supplemental water here at times but are worth it.
Do they come true from seed? How many years to fruit from seed? I start all our Ross seeds.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7GjM4TYK/9188-C8-F8-9659-4-DBA-8407-43-A2-A9-FAC10-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7GjM4TYK)
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The only time I've been able to actually taste a fell ripened Canistel is when they fall from the tree, and of course this helps no one : (
I have harvested Canistel when they turn yellow but no matter how many times I've tried, they've never ripened properly. Are there any special precautions to take?
Regards,
Sam
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Yellow with beads of white sap exuded through the skin.
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Excellent!! Thanks Har!
Experiment will be undertaken soon.....