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Messages - greenman62

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dovyalis kaffra
« on: Today at 12:26:13 PM »
i bought one last year from Mygardenofdelights
(Murray Corman)
i had the same question.
he told me the one he sells fruits by itself.
i am pretty sure they start easy from cuttings,

mine not large enough to fruit yet
and it lost its leaves in winter, but its sprouting back already.

According to Popenoe there should be 1 male for every 20 or 30 females.
However, certain female trees have borne profusely in the absence of male pollinators.

I was looking at your list.  We are in Houston which was zone 9, but someone changed the zone to 8.
We just experienced a hard freeze 20 degrees with ice/sleet.  We spent the entire day from morning
til dark covering fruit trees.
The main tree I wanted to comment on was the Cherry of the Rio Grande.  Ours is about 5 years old.
This tree took the temperature with no damage.  Even a baby Rio I planted is coming back out.
We covered the Kari Starfruit, but we always cover this tropical tree.  We also had Christmas lights on
lots of trees. 
This is the second Barbados Cherry I have lost.  If I get another, I'll leave it in a pot.  We definitely know what will
make it and what will not.  We have dug up the persian lime, a lemon, and one other that will seem to
never be able to fruit.
The older Jacotabica has lost all its leaves, but is still green on the stem.  The cara cara orange faired the worst
of all the citrus. 
I am going to post here hoping someone many know help for the newly planted Joey avocado. 

Hope this never happens to you or I again.
Wishing you well with your trees.  Carol in Houston

Hi Carol
I am in New Orleans... Very similar here.
it hit 20F... 50yr, maybe 100 yr record low.
i had the same experience.
my CORG had no damage at all.
4yr old starfruit looks like it might not come back
(although i read somewhere about one coming back from the low 20s)
i had lots of damage to the Jabos, but they are alive.
grumichama, green sapote, jackfruit, bloack sapote
all look dead.
last year i had several plants i thought i lost, but a few started sprouting from the roots
some in April, some May, some not until June.
i hadnt heard of one taking over a year, but its good to know.
i have 2 mango in ground that had gotten farily large,
 i have to think the root system didnt freeze too badly.

i had put 5gallon buckets of hot water, and covered several small trees with blankets/sheets, etc...
i am crossing fingers on the baobob and inga... they were pretty large
and if the roots didnt freeze for too many hours they might come back.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Don't throw away those passionfruit leaves!
« on: February 23, 2018, 06:45:14 AM »
Passion fruit flowers can also be used for tea (dried or fresh) - and they contain some MAOI alkaloids (monoamine oxide inhibitor). MAOI's are used as a pharmaceutical anti-depressant (although these are less common these days vs SSRIs). Passion flower can also be used augment the effect of some psychedelics, since they contain MAOIs.

Be aware that MAOI's should not be consumed with certain foods (cured meats, strong cheeses, etc.)

yeah, i was going to mention that.
the active principle in Passiflora is an MAOI,
taken in fairly high amounts, you should keep a close eye on your diet.

Coffee and Cacao (chocolate), cheeses, red wine, cured meats, and Yeast
 are some of the stronger ones to avoid if i remember correctly.
also, do not mix if taking  St. John's wort.
there is a list on the  links below.

An enzyme called monoamine oxidase is involved in removing the neurotransmitters norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine from the brain. MAOIs prevent this from happening, which makes more of these brain chemicals available to effect changes in both cells and circuits that have been impacted by depression.

"Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs) are drugs used to treat depression, high blood pressure, and other medical conditions. If you are taking MAOIs, you will follow a special diet.

A side effect of this type of medicine is that a normally harmless substance in food, tyramine (TY-ra-meen), is not broken down by the body.

High levels of tyramine can cause blood vessels to narrow. This can lead to very high blood pressure, a severe headache, and possibly bleeding.

To avoid these serious side effects, you should avoid certain foods or eat them only in small amounts."

Low-Tyramine Diet for Migraine

Serotonin syndrome.
Rarely, an MAOI can cause dangerously high levels of serotonin, known as serotonin syndrome.
It most often occurs when two medications that raise serotonin are combined.
 These include other antidepressants, certain pain or headache medications,

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First Frost of the year
« on: February 22, 2018, 04:20:10 PM »
No frost in PQ.  I'll have to check on my worms though, they don't like it when it gets below 40.
i have a worm bin
We just had a 100yr hard freeze in New Orleans (20F) a few weeks ago...
with all the stuff i was worried about, i forgot the worms.
they were perfectly fine.
the bin is a bit protected, but, i still imagine it had to get 25F.
i have also found tons of compost worms that have made their way into the garden over the years
(my castings have eggs and small worms).
all the dead plant material; is making them go nuts now that its warmed up.

i am really surprised my Myers lemon made it. and the orange.
i lost a 25yr satsuma though, but it was looking bad this whoile year anyway.
i lost things like natal plum and guava, which i thought were hardy (some made it)
pretty sure i lost the Grumichamas, and maybe even the Jabo (2 jabos should be fine, but lost twigs and stems )
mangos are toast. but they were from seed, and i kinda figured one year this would happen.
i am hoping the White sapote comes back. its 6ft tall (was)... i  know the top was burned to hell.
i hope it flushes from the bottom or the roots.

last year my black sapote and Baobob didnt come back to life until early June (from the roots)

i had made the mistake of throwing out a few plants to reuse the pots on April.
wont do that this year.
i have a dozen containers with various subtropical dead-looking plants
they will just be an eyesore until July... :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cow Breast Orchid, Uvaria grandiflora
« on: February 13, 2018, 05:06:47 PM »
I tried growing this from seed 3 times
never got one seedlings.

if anyone has success let me know
especially with a place i can buy seeds, or seedlings.

(Adam do you have one for sale?)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Elaeagnus Plant ID help
« on: February 13, 2018, 05:04:11 PM »
there are a few for sale as ornamentals
they do fruit, but they are hybrids and there is little flesh on the fruit.
i have 2 i got from a sale at Lowes for $2 each
its a good nitrogen fixing plant that keeps nice green leaves all winter.
the fruit has a nice taste, but very little flesh.

i have the latifolia i grew from seed
only 1 survived and it just lost its leaves in the freeze.
i had forgot it is a tropical relative.
autumn olive and russian olive can take temps below zero F.

Latifolia seedlings

fruit (hybrid)

fruit (hybrid)

Lowes Hybrid (left)

sun and water play on the tste.
too much water , or not enough sun will inhibit the sweetness.

the youtube fruit tast guy (i forgot his name)
says they taste like strawberry nesquick.

midsummer and fall are best here, unless we get too much rain.
i had 3 small ones last fall, pretty sure they are all dead now.
the large one i had (15ft) died last winter around 27F.

the $1 dolla-store has several sizes of containers
i use a knife and punch holes in the side.
(wiggle the knife a bit to open it up)
ive had great success with this.
if you need 1 or 2 containers and have the $%, get root-pruning pots,
but, i needed lots, this was much cheaper.

i have a couple of fabric containers,
and for some reason they stay damp and get moldy.
i am always sitting them in the sun, on top of something
to let them dry.
maybe this is good for Jabos in the summer...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: zabala fruit
« on: February 04, 2018, 12:51:16 PM »

i know its an old post, but im wondering if anyone has grown and fruited this ??
and what it tastes like ?

i found seeds here.
i might place an order soon.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: tejocote
« on: January 26, 2018, 10:39:45 AM »
i had bought a few at the Latino market nearby.
They had a mealy texture i wasnt crazy about.
it was somewhat creamy at the same time
and the fruit was fairly soft.
they also sell it in jars of (water/or ?)

They are high in pectin and supposedly make a good jam.

its Crataegus Mexicana, supposedly the best one for fruit.
i have a Crataegus douglasii, but i cant get the damn thing to grow at all.
Haw jam is pretty popular down south. i had Haw-Kumquat years ago, it was pretty damn good.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Wanted exotic for cold climate
« on: January 22, 2018, 10:47:34 AM »
i have a few Cereus i grew from seed.
and also a couple of Opuntia. (flowers and fruit are either yellow or purple)

you have anything to trade ??
potato perhaps ?

is sapodilla really hardy to the mid 20s ?

i am in zone 9, and its 21F right now.
its not "normal" for here, except that it does happen on the rare occasion.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: hard freeze /arctic blast for New Orleans
« on: January 17, 2018, 10:02:15 AM »
i feel for you - good luck.

As you can imagine, i'm excited to hear you bought some pawpaws :) (what cultivars, by the way?)

As for me - I still stress about our cold weather (4 degrees tonight, was 4 deg on New Year's Day too) even though I have all native plants! I guess I shouldn't - I'm working on it. :)
My muscadines I guess are the only thing I worry about but figure that's silly at this time of year - it it was 4 Deg in March, I might really need to worry :)

Triloba Tracker, Pawpaw are called...
 called Gainsville #2, and Mango
( fruited well   in Gainesville Florida)

also got a CHE (Darrow) and  a Raisin Tree)

a loganberry, black raspberry (Cumberland), and a Farthing and Star blueberry.
(from ISONS)

i do have several Jujube, muscadine, loquat, pomegranate, mulberry, feijoa,
others that should come out OK.
i have some that are supposed to take some cold, but, now, i am worried about.

white sapote, longan, lychee, banana (dwarf namwah), guava (several types) , eugenia florida, Jabo (4)

i have 4 loquats that have been flowering for weeks now.
will i see fruit ?
i am looking at a Lychee in a 3gal that it is outgrowing
i forgot to bring in,
i hope its good for another hour while i have coffee and get the courage to face this weather.

i have a greenhouse and never use it,
most of the plants i have are in ground. part of the point of what i am doing is to create a permaculture food-forest
cant really do that in containers.
also, the greenhouse gets really really hot in summer and its a pain to water them.
i am thinking about cutting the top off of it, and putting large containers in it.
it will still be semi-protected, plants will get water,
 and the reduced height will provide more sun to areas it now shades out a bit.

its 20F


mango bailys near house

Inga and Guava


Inside plants


Tropical Fruit Discussion / hard freeze /arctic blast for New Orleans
« on: January 16, 2018, 10:13:48 AM »
i remember when i was in my early 20s (30yrs ago ish)
we had temps in the low 20s, and there was ice on lake pontchartrain so thick i walked on it.
it stayed in the mid to upper 20s for a couple of days though.

so, i am going out to buy 4 heaters and extension cords.
i piled leaves on things like aloe-vera, and small plants
(i piled leaves on everything actually)
covered things with cardboard etc...

i plan on putting boiling water in a 5 gal bucket for the 2 Jabo in ground.
and probably for the Longan

a heater for the Ingao, baobob, green sapote, and mango.

this is quite depressing.
i may be changing hobbies in spring depending on what comes back.

i did just order a couple of Pawpaw, a Che,  and blueberries.

22F for tonight/early tomorrow

thankfully, temps will be dropping during the night
not reaching 22F till 8am
i can wake around 6 and try to curtail the damage.

should i use a hose and water stuff down at 7am ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plinia Arryan
« on: January 16, 2018, 09:59:20 AM »
I've since found out that Arryan is a region in South America so no doubt it is
Plinia sp. Arryan .The guava is probably from the same region

i neglected to mention the leaves look much more like Jaboticaba / Plinia
than it does a guava.

The area is in Santiago Chile.
(unless there are others with that name)
which is interesting. Santiago gets frost.
keep us updated with pics...
when it gets larger, some of the Plinaia experts might be able to ID it better
or, give us an idea of which Plinia it is related to the closest

peaceful looking place.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plinia Arryan
« on: January 15, 2018, 03:38:38 PM »
thats pretty interesting.

Arryan is not a Latin name as far as i know
Plinia is, so it really doesnt make sense.

Luma Apiculata
 Myrtus communis
 Psidium sartorianum ( Sartre guava)
have all been called   Arrayan


did you grow these out to fruiting size yet ?
i would have thought the extra soil on top would give less oxygen to the roots ?
papaya roots are usually very close to the surface so they can breath.
the soil must be loose and well draining ?
Yes they are holding fruit well. I've seen lots of papaya lodging/breaking over and decided to try it with some. The soil here is pure sand so perfect drainage except a high water table in summer especially during storms. This year we got 11" in a week then another 10 or so with Irma which meant waterlogged soil for weeks and killed most papaya that went under. All my trees are on 1 ft raised beds, compost and mulch, multispecies interplanted permaculture style. papaya & banana are interplants between each young fruit tree. Like this:

thats a great setup
i wish i was in a warmer climate and had that much room.
papaya and banana are great when they die to add biomass
papaya adds boron, and often sand is lacking in it.
banana adds potassium. they also break down more slowly
 and hold water in the tissues.

heres a great link that explains the different colors
and how they effect growth.

Light Spectrum and Plant Growth

To me, when i looked into it
i wanted something just to keep plants semi happy for a few weeks at a time over winter
maybe taking them out on sunny days.

so, i wanted something very efficient, and fairly cheap
this focuses on 3 (main) wavelengths for photosynthesis...

just an example...

- there are two types of chlorophyll in plants - chlorophyll A and chlorophyll B. Chlorophyll A absorption peaks are at 430 nm and 662 nm wavelengths and 453 nm and 642 nm for chlorophyll B. Chlorophyll B in plants helps in increasing the light absorption range and is not as abundant as chlorophyll A.

- chlorophyll is not the only chemical compound in plants that actually absorb light. LED grow lights often use several LED colors covering these peaks. In fact, many LED grow lights use colored LEDs, white LEDs and infrared LEDs in order to cover needed wavelength - for example, some LED grow lights can cover 9 to 11, or even more, different bands: 430-440nm, 450-460nm, 470nm, 610-615nm, 620-630nm, 650-660nm, white, IR, UV etc. Strictly speaking 'white' is not a narrow band (wavelength), but requires different LEDs. Note: operating IR (infrared) and UV (ultraviolet) LEDs look as if they are NOT working, but they simply emit light in IR/UV bands that can't been seen by human eyes.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: indian Myrica sp
« on: January 14, 2018, 04:04:44 PM »
ive tried a couple of times growing from seed with no luck.

i know lots of people tried and failed
but, a couple have had success.

i think i remember some people buying dozens of these in a group buy ??
i would love to buy one, or even fresh seed if anyone knows where to get them.

i read an article that CHina grows them en-mass.
there are lots of varieties and colors.

 almost bought some here
i figured from CHina is better, and there are different colors.

but it seemed fishy.
40 cents for a package from China ?

i would keep it staked for a bit
maybe unstake it for a while in low winds
to force it to strengthen the base.

i would just worry a little about high winds, uprooting or snapping.
i dont know that much about white sapote though
so i dont know if its a strong wood or not.
i have one about the same size, or a little larger,
and havent had any problems with it.
its kinda protected from wind though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: HELP ID these seeds!
« on: January 14, 2018, 03:48:17 PM »

ive seen a few species, all legumes
that look similar.
a few possible ones...

Cassia occidentalis
Cassia Angustifolia
Senna Tora

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What is the best variety of loquat?
« on: January 14, 2018, 03:15:56 PM »
i have 4 trees
3 from seed, and 1 i found from a large tree in New Orleans French Quater,
 in front of an old antebellum (expensive) home.
i am hoping that one will be a superior fruit.
this is the first year they are all flowering.

i had grafted a couple of scions last year, but only 1 took
so, i have lots of room for more.

i will be looking for scions in a couple of months.
any cultivar would be helpful.

when is best to graft ?
just after danger of last frost is passed ??

this is the smallest one.

this one is the largest. pic is from August.

large one again.
Dec pic, after my Baobab lost its leaves.

Possibly root rot set in when we got the big rains pre and during Irma. They do not withstand wet feet at all. Thousands died all over. Plant on a mound next time and it should do well.


and they are surprisingly drought tolerant.
that doesnt mean they do best with little water, it just means they wont die easily in drought.

make a mound as high and wide as possible.
and use LOTS of mulch on top.
when making the  hole add lots of organic matter.
they will grow in straight compost. but they need drainage
fish emulsion, chick poo, are excellent ferts. they dont mind it kinda hot.
a lot of woody mulch (plus, leaves, grass clippings etc...) on top keeps moisture in.
i actually use a layer of composted leaves, coffee grounds and grass clippings
THEN a layer of cardboard or newspaper, then a layer of woody mulch.
the worms get a protected area with lots of food and go to town.
worms fertilize and aerate the soil for you.
they work 24/7, dont need a healthcare plan, and never ask for a raise.

If you planted and it was 5 feet tall it may have been a bit too tall. I grew mine from seed and had best luck with transplanting @ about 1 ft. tall. Some grow from seed and let 3 grow together choosing out the males.

I grew these and every plant turned out female or hermaphrodite, not a single one was male.

most papaya seed you buy now is %66 hermaphrodite and %33 female
(sometimes 50/50 depending on variety, grower, etc...)
with almost no males.
there is no need to plant 3 per hole anymore.

Even though mine were only 1 ft. tall I buried some with 6" of stem underground and they seem to have no problem with that, becoming much more stout at the base which I hope will be resistant to lodging over.

did you grow these out to fruiting size yet ?
i would have thought the extra soil on top would give less oxygen to the roots ?
papaya roots are usually very close to the surface so they can breath.
the soil must be loose and well draining ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Green sapote sun requirements in SoCal?
« on: January 14, 2018, 02:30:00 PM »
Good luck with that incoming cold, Brad! I'm realizing now that Mamey is not an "ultra" tropical. I have intentionally left a lot of truly tropical plants outside this year to help judge their relative hardiness. Santol and Chempedak were dead the moment temps approached 40F. Mamey Sapote still looks perfect despite several nights around 30F.

Green Sapote is another level up. If I lived in SoCal I would plant Green Sapote in full sun and not worry about it.

i thought i dodged the bullet, when i protected everything best i could
and it got down to 28F.
dont think i lost anything (except a couple of mango seedlings... i have several for grins)
though it did seem to burn the foliage and small growth on Jabo, guava etc...
been through it before... one day it will get large enough so i dont worry, and let them be.

now, we have another front coming.
Teu night it supposed to hit 27 or 28

my plan is to boil water and put it in 5gal buckets next to the jabos
and other sensitive plants.

i have a Baobob that's 7ft tall and has a bole the size of my waist.
i would hate to lose it.

hope the green sapote makes it.

I just ordered a CHE , 2 Pawpaw, and some blueberries.
the tropical give me headaches all winter.

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