The Tropical Fruit Forum

Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees

Cultivar Name: Edgar

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Edgar is a more vigorous grower.  Would be tough to keep small/compact.(REF)

-- C-18 is Edgar.(REF)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Edgar, from Zill, also fruits very well as a small tree.(REF)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- 'Edgar', supposedly from 'Edward' X 'Gary', and therefore the name, has a long harvest, mainly mid-season, with some early and late.(REF)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Finished eating the  rest of the Edgar and wow, it's SO GOOD     Nice size and the flavor is very sweet, smooth, well-rounded and just wonderful. It's been my #2 most delicious mango eating experience of this summer so far, just below the Maha Chanok.(REF)

-- My first reaction to tasting this Edgar (Edward x Gary) from Walter Zill's in Boynton Beach, FL, was the same as Borat's: "Wowwah weeeewah! Very nice, I like." I cut it when it was still fairly firm. It has the sweetness of a popsicle, the smoothness of an Edward, its creamy as a Candy Corn, and there's a laid back tropical flavor mystique that is delightful. Eating close to the skin there is a beautiful, subdued resinous finish. I would rate this mango as "Excellent" and say that it is truly delicious and high grade. It did not blow my mind in the way in the way I associate with an outstanding mango, but this one is close. (REF)

-- I thought my 2 remaining Edgars would have been very overripe at the time of the sampling but there were not. The black spots on the exterior barely penetrated through the skin and into the flesh. Sweet, fiberless, deep orange flesh. I felt they tasted much better  than the Edgars I sampled earlier last week. And considering how they held up well since purchasing ripe  8 days, maybe some commercial growing potential here (?) with this cv. Very enjoyable.(REF)

-- Edward x Gary = Edgar. This mango was mostly yellow with some olive green towards the bottom and starting to brown on top. This mango was 4in long and weighed 355g. When I cut the mango open it produced a bright yellow-orange flesh and leaked some thin juice. The flesh was fiberless soft and juicy. There was an alright amount of flesh to eat that surrounded a monoembryonic seed. The taste was like canned peaches with an added tangy finish and a resinous taste near the peel.(REF)

-- Edgar - this was said to be the "brother" of Coconut Cream... a supposed Edward Gary cross = EdGar.  A nice mid-size mango with a beautiful pink blush... and a complex, almost "royal" flavor. The tasted reminded me of some mangoes I had in India... but toned down and smoother, more 'Western'.  I knew it was really good because I ate such tiny bites, not looking forward to it being gone. Later, I sliced off the second half and drove to the beach... waded out into the water as the sun set... and slowly nibbled the orange flesh off the skin while looking up at sky. I sadly dropped the peel in the Atlantic ocean, walked back to my car and drove home thinking about finding more mangoes of the same quality. A(REF)

What a great list! Nice of you to take the time to compile it. I would have loved such a list when I was selecting my trees, I'm sure it will help many new growers in future.

Thanks sunworshiper! I am glad to go to the effort. Like you said, it will likely (hopefully) be useful to new growers in the future who might have similar constraints to mine.

I'd add Manilita to the list. There are pics of my tree and fruit here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg143208;topicseen#msg143208
It is on par with Pickering for size, but more upright in habit. I can easily maintain it productive at 5'. The flavor might not be top tier, but it is my favorite in my yard. Fragrant,  colorful, disease resistant, every fruit ripens perfectly, and while not complex, I like the flavor a lot. A perfect cogshalls will beat it in flavor, but this year I had about 50 manilitas and around 30 cogshalls, and due to inconsistent ripening in the cogshalls, I'd say around 3 were superior, the rest were beat out by the Manilita in flavor this year.

What a beautiful tree! I will definitely add Manilita to the list, thanks!

There areba few AZ growers on here.  Che k with them.  Of what is on your list, i would personally eliminate Julie and Imam Pasand.  Cotton Candy will be an unknown  (it has never been grafted on turpentine rootstock so who knows how it will react and grow) and unless you are going to drive to Florida,  and possibly get lucky depending on the number that may be offered cor sale WHOLESALE,  you may have to wait at least 2 years for it.

I would add Fairchild to your list and possibly Pina Colada and Providence.

Thanks Rob. Yeah, I have seen posts by AZ mango growers here and on phoenixtropicals.com . A lot of them are growing Manila, Keitt and Lemon Zest (others too, but these are the ones I remember prominently off the top of my head). But all these are big trees left to their own devices. And even with a pruning regimen, I would be sacrificing a lot of productivity by excessive pruning for size control with these trees. I have also seen evidence that Carrie can do really well in Phoenix. And since my constraint is a mango that I can keep small for my particular new planting location without sacrificing production, this is one I am strongly considering. Even with the mixed thoughts on the flavor profile (I happen to like piney/resinous flavors in hops, a nice piney-hopped west coast IPA like Green Flash is one of my faves. So I wonder if that love will transfer to mango flavors too? ).

But I will definitely put Fairchild, Pina Colada and Providence in my consideration pile. Thanks for the feedback!

Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees

Cultivar Name: Cotton Candy

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Cotton Candy, original tree, planted out in the field in the late nineties, and never pruned, is still under 20 feet. (REF)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Late Season (REF)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Uh oh.  Look out ladies and gentlemen,  put the children in their rooms.  There may be a new sheriff in town.  This mango is a Keitt crossed with Gary.  If you like high acidic levels in your mango read no further.  At first bite you taste a the flavor of a firm but tamed down Gary (no distinct pina colada flavor) and then all hell breaks loose and here comes the flavor of, yes, I am not kidding, the flavor of cotton c andy on through the finish.  I have eaten a few of these and the flavor profile is consistent. (REF)

-- It isn't too often one can legitimately have Cotton Candy for breakfast.  And after eating this mango, I a left wondering if it should be allowed.  This thing is sweet.  Sickly sweet.  Perhaps some alternate names could have been Sucre.  Or The Amputator.  A good looking mango with subtle yellow pink outside, also decent mid sized fruit.  Inside is yellow and, again, mine had slightly gone past its prime.  But in this case, it didn't matter.  First impression were, aroma was positive.  Second thing, it struck me as being very similar in flavour profile go Coconut Cream - excellent.  The knock out punch though is the after taste.  It seemed the closer to th seed I got, the sweeter the mango got.  It is like a mix of Brahm Kai Mea and coconut cream.

I imagine there are some who will not enjoy this mango for being just too sweet.  There are those who cannot imagine a mango that is too sweet.  If so, Cotton Candy may either change your mind or....bethemango of choice for you.

I rate it very highly, top tier.(REF)

You are way over thinking this.  Are you looking for the "perfect " tree (on paper) or a mango that is the right choice for you?

I am just documenting my research. And I am doing it publicly in case this might be useful to anybody else. There is likely no perfect tree for my application, but there looks like there are several good options. Also, I know that I will be doing a bit of 'veering off the path' being in AZ and so the experiences of FL and CA growers won't necessarily apply (CA is probably more applicable though).

For myself, I am narrowing the list down to:
- Carrie
- Julie
- Pickering
- Venus
- Imam Passand
- Mahachanok

But I am continuing to document my research because maybe someone in FL or CA might have slightly different criteria / taste and might make a different decision.

Just collating data as they say

Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees

Cultivar Name: Carrie

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Carrie is a bushy grower but not compact. It is a medium fast grower(REF)

-- Smallish, compact growth habit which is easy to control and does not have a lot of fungal/disease problems. At least here in Central Florida.(REF)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- 40 mangos on a three year old tree sounds pretty darn good. (REF)

-- Reliable bearer when mature, Disease resistant(REF)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- This is the last Carrie fruit on the tree two fell off today (Aug 08). It is still green hope it holds till september. I got well over 100 fruit from june till now(REF)

-- its still only mid May and Carrie are usually ready sometime in June . (REF)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- It's been a bad year for uneven ripening. Many of my mango trees have had the same issue. It's easy to mitigate though -- pick the fruit while green and ripen indoors. I actually prefer carrie picked green to tree-ripened carries anyway (flesh is firmer and retains more acidity that way).(REF)

-- Yeah, unless you miss a few on a full grown tree, Carries should be picked mature green or at most, a slight color break on the shoulders (not sunburn but actual color break).  When the ripen on the tree, the texture gets really soft, actuall too soft, and the taste it below par as far as a Carrie goes.(REF)

-- The Carries I've eaten were all fallen from the tree at the F&S Park, very yellow, slightly soft and very good. Carrie should be eaten quickly once ripe. They don't keep long. I would wait for more yellow coloration. Look at the PIN picture.(REF)

-- DO NOT rely on yellow color while picking Carrie. Some on my tree will stay 100% green while fully ripe inside. If you are not sure, bend it  90 degrees up and if ready, it will come off on its own. When ripe, the top of the mango around the stem will fill out and form into a "butt-shape" Once it is no longer thin near the stem and fills out it should ripen properly. And when picked, I prefer to eat them when it begins to soften slightly to the touch and begin to smell.(REF)

-- Finally a break from all those mild tasting FL varieties!! Strong flavor plus piney taste made of of my favorites. Supposedly has very short window for perfection. I tried 5 Carries in various stages, and they were all excellent mangoes. Failed to see all that fuss about window of perfection and hate relationship some people have to this variety. Also refrigerated Carries are simply awesome. Refrigeration actually increases overall appeal with Carrie. It isn't necessarily true with other varieties. (REF)

-- The 'Carrie' mango variety demystified:

It's a very peculiar thing, describing the taste of the 'Carrie' mango. And, I've noticed that description of this variety can vary greatly from one person to another. This flavor description phenomenon does not happen in any other mango variety, that I'm aware of. For the record, I love this mango variety so much, that I have two planted trees.

The Carrie mango is very popular in island countries like Jamaica in the Caribbean, reportedly, this is due to its 'spicy' undertone flavors.

I'd really like to give it a shot, to describe the 'Carrie' mango eating experience. For example, I never have forgotten the very first time that I tasted a 'Carrie.' I was in my early teens. With all due respect, I think the optimal age for tasting a 'Carrie' for the first time is somewhere around the teen years; everything tastes better, sounds better, looks better...

So, here goes, it looked like a good quality mango at first sight. I noticed the lack of splashy red coloration of other varieties immediately ('Haden'). Everything about the 'cutting with a sharp knife' experience is perfect. I was expecting the standard mango flavor. I put the very first bite ever in my mouth and - woaw - this is not the regular standard mango flavor, what's this? A tiny bit of the regular flavor then a bit more of the 'piney' flavor. Then, it was, woaw, the best colorful way to describe it that comes to mind: this is voodoo, witchcraft taste. In a fraction of a second I was like, what kind of a trip is this? I wasn't sure which way my brain was going to go - hate the flavor - like the flavor - love the flavor, all in a fraction of a second. It was like a flavor experience that hit and kicked me at the same time. Then, the next bite was reminiscent of the first one but with a definite different 'spicy' flavor, and I was like, 'what the heck!' And then came my final, definite reaction: I had made my mind up, this was not a regular tasting mango, this was definitely a witchcraft/voodoo flavored mango and I was hooked! This is definitely not a 'goody two shoes' taste, or 'Dorothy in la la land' taste... The flavor was synonymous with dangerous/scary activities like 'cave diving..,' It was a dangerous, adventurous taste. Right there and then I knew I was addicted. It was almost as if I valued this mango's taste to be one of the highest quality. The weird thing is that I started not being sure if I liked the taste at the first bite and wound up later after finishing the mango, completely and forever addicted to this variety.

In conclusion, this mango has one of those tastes that it is an acquired, addictive, taste. It's a taste that grabs you, possesses you. In hindsight, I realize that I was very fortunate. My first 'Carrie' mango was removed/picked from the tree with perfect timing, at the point/moment when there was a subtle but definite change in the coloration, that indicated that the mango was ready for the picking. Perhaps this correct timing of picking the mango off the tree is what's important in order to truly appreciate/experience the exquisite taste of the 'Carrie.' Perhaps incorrectly timing the picking of the 'Carrie' is what has not allowed some to appropriately evaluate this variety. (REF)

--  It is a distinct taset to the flesh and a "piney"/resinous component near the skin that some, or many find off putting.  It is usually a love or hate relationship with the Carrie.  Duncan has a similar component which some describe as an unpleasant taste near the skin.
(REF)

-- For the "American palate" (ie, anglos who've grown up eating apples and pears), the carrie has a tight window of awesomeness, and I'm quite convinced that a good portion of those who report that they dislike it have never tried a carrie in that stage.

The carrie goes from creamy (code word for chalky :-), with a great sweet and tart combo to sweet gelatinous sludge with funky odor and foul aftertaste very quickly. The novice mango eater will wait until the carrie is yellow before eating, but that is a mistake. One should consume the carrie at the very first sign of give. (This does not apply to islanders / latinos, as they often prefer to let it ripen to the point of extreme sweetness.)

Carrie also tend to have a better flavor and consistency (in my opin) if picked green and allowed to ripen indoors. I very rarely find a tree ripened carrie that I like.

It takes some trial and error to get the carrie at the right stage, it does have that strong piney flavor (which is stronger in some years than others), and the flavor can vary from year to year. But overall it's a great mango with many excellent qualities:

 - Incredible flavor and texture when eaten at the right stage
 - Best mango for "processing" (smoothies, ice cream, etc)(REF)

Edgar is a more vigorous grower.  Would be tough to keep small/compact.

Boney Kiss shohld be available in a year or so.  Very slow grower.

Mahachanok will get larger than Pickering.   Pickering will give more fruit as a smaller tree than Mahachanok.

Har - you sure about the Cotton Candy never being pruned throughout its life?

Rob, thanks for the info!

Quote from: starch on March 05, 2015, 08:48:22 AM

There are a few services out there that will ship you CA avocados. The one that I use is Avocado Diva (http://www.avocadodiva.com/). She basically drives up and down the coast to small ranches between San Diego and LA and with her crew picks them fresh off the tree and ships them that week. We get our avocados and they typically ripen 7-10 days after we receive them. Because they are small ranches they have lots of different trees so we get to experience the full range of the CA avocado seasons. For someone like me who is a major avocado lover and doesn't live anywhere near avocado country, it is a really awesome service. I have been absolutely happy with it.

Read in the newspaper today that August 31, 2015 is the semifinal day of business for Avocado Diva.

I know, I am so sad she is going out of business. I have been ordering for years. I have been able to eat some of the best avocados that CA has to offer. I was on the ultimate club, which meant I got a 2 shipments a month for $50/month and each shipment had on average a dozen avocados. So that is roughly $2 per avocado for some of the most premium quality fruits you could find ( Nabal, Reed, Pinkterton, Fuerte, Nobel, Sir Prize, Marvel, Lamb, Gem, MacArthur, etc.). I am really bummed.

Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees

Cultivar Name: Alampur Baneshsan

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- My tree is over ten (10) years old and is planted in the ground.  It stands approx. eigth ( feet tall. Here is the negative report about this variety! The fruit has a tendency to split and crack.  Maybe you can control the amount of moisture and resolve the splitting  and cracking issue, by growing them in a large pot. By the way, this mango variety is a very slow grower, and I would recommend it if you don't' mind the fruit splitting. (REF)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Alampur Baneshan produces reasonably well in Florida for an Indian mango but definitely has horrible issues with splitting. Its probably worse than NDM #4 in that regard actually.(REF)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Alanpur Baneshsan is a very flavorful mango.  The only problem is, the flavor it has isn't a flavor that everyone likes.  It is very strong flavored and has a considerable resinous twang. The flesh does remain very pale yellow, almost white in appearance even when ripe.  The exteriror doesn't color up either.  On top of that, it tends to have major issues here at my property with splitting on the tree just before being ready for harvest.  Well, its not splitting in the manor that Nam Doc splits.  It is more of a cracking with multiple small cracks forming, as oppposed to one giant crack/split that Nam Doc has.  In either case the fruit is ruined.  So for South Florida, in mucky wet soil, this is another Indian selection that you just won't get to enjoy much fruit from.(REF)

-- Alampur Baneshan is a very fragrant and spice mango.  I would say that it is a mango for people that like full flavored unusual mangoes. The skin remains mostly
green when mature, and the flesh is kind of pale.  However, the flesh packs a good punch of smells and flavors. (REF)

What's the lowest temperature reached during the coldest winters?

Not sure the direct answer to your question, but according to http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/InteractiveMap.aspx the center is on the border of 9b/10a which would suggest that the minimum temperature will be in the neighborhood of 30 F

Of course this can be higher or lower for that particular site (is it located on a slope? Bottom of slope? etc.) which would affect the mango's microclimate.

New variety, available next year:

Cotton Candy, original tree, planted out in the field in the late nineties, and never pruned, is still under 20 feet.  It has not been observed grafted onto Turpentine rootstock.

Nice! I will add to the list, thanks!

Any mango keeps growing, even Julie, so, as already well-stated at the top of this thread, you want varieties that take well to rather hard pruning and still fruit very well.

Right, that is a good point!

What I was trying to get across is that a compact tree has a relatively small internode length which will keep it's growth flushes from ballooning out of size too quickly. Especially seeing as how you want to do your pruning just after harvest (i.e. once a year). If the tree is too vigorous and has a large internode length it can certainly get out of hand in a growing season. All this is from what I read, I have very little (successful at least) mango experience of my own. So please correct me if any of this is mistaken.

So if my above assumption / interpretation of others experiences is correct, that is why I stated in the criteria that it needs only relatively minor pruning to be kept in check.