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Author Topic: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit  (Read 1213 times)

laidbackdood

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 11:01:22 AM »
Interesting thread...so do you suggest feeding with urea to all citrus Millet? ....I have been feeding my trees with something called B green...its a slow release organic feed high in carbon.......then compost on top of that in the garden....i just use the b green for the pots and mulch........I also water with worm juice every now and then...........u still suggest the 5-1-3 npk for pots millet?
            I was always confused whether ammonium or urea was better for citrus.....I am a bit concerned spraying urea based soluble fert when its so evil hot over here.........My eureka lemons never look happy here! ....have one big one in ground and one in pot and both have pale leaves and brown crinkle effect.........the big one in ground has never flowered.

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 11:22:41 AM »
Laidback nice hearing from you again. As for spraying urea to obtain a better fruit crop, that advice was for growers in the northern hemisphere.  You are in the southern hemisphere, so you should spray your trees 1 to 2 months prior to your tree's expected bloom date. 

laidbackdood

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2018, 12:07:09 PM »
Thanks Millet...I have citrus that flower and fruit at different times..........some interesting varities
= cara cara orange/pineapple/ washington navel/ arnold blood orange/comquat cammolidon(something like that !)/emperor mandarin/imperial mandarin/hickson mandarin/daisy mandarin/Nules clementine/kaffir lime/tahitian lime/indian lime/lemonade/meyer lemon/eureka lemon/japanese seedless mandarin/honey murcott mandarin/late navel orange..........only the pineapple and comquats(caloomidium) are in flower at the moment.........the lemonade /pineapple(actually tastes like pineapple)and lots of lemons( a dwarf meyer variety) have big fruits on them.....so i think some might flower soon........they are all putting out new growth.
By the way.....Your "hero" status is justified !!!!!  :D
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 12:09:24 PM by laidbackdood »

Waiting

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 02:44:18 PM »
Amazon carries urea from Alpha Chemicals. I looked at their website and it says "maximum biuret = .5%". The price at Alpha Chemicals website is considerably cheaper but shipping costs might tip it in favor of buying through  Amazon. 1, 5, and 10 pounds ships free if your combined Amazon-shipped items exceed $25.

I'm not crazy about Amazon's dominance of the retail sphere but often it is the best (or at least most convenient) option.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Urea%2BAlpha%2BChemicals

http://alphachemicals.com/urea

pineislander

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2018, 07:17:38 AM »
Millet, for in ground citrus (not potted/containers) how would a 10: 1 dilution of human urine work at the root zone for pre-bloom feeding?

Vlad

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2018, 10:08:03 AM »
Is it safe to use Hi-Yield brand spreader/sticker with Neem oil?
Will it act as an emulsifier of the oil?

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2018, 05:17:38 PM »
Pineislander,  Human urine, is not urea.  Ninety percent of the nitrogen content in human urine is present as ammoniacal N type, with ammonium bicarbonate being the dominant compound. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 05:25:17 PM by Millet »

Ilya11

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2018, 04:09:18 AM »
Not true, nitrogen in human urine is mainly urea
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-chemical-composition-of-urine-603883
But urine contains  an excess of NaCl that can be toxic to plants.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

pineislander

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2018, 07:57:56 AM »
Pineislander,  Human urine, is not urea.  Ninety percent of the nitrogen content in human urine is present as ammoniacal N type, with ammonium bicarbonate being the dominant compound.
Millet, if you were using this paper as reference, they were looking at a specific type of liquid from a toilet which separates urine from feces. The effluent does include flushing water and was collected from a septic tank which had been stored for months. That could be the reason why the urea/ nitrogen was different, but I'm not sure. They do say:

Quote
Nitrogen composition
Total nitrogen concentrations varied between 1.79 and
22.61 g L -1 of which 95% was present as ammoniacal
nitrogen (Table 2). The high pH values of 8.9 result in
ca 30% of the ammoniacal N being present as dissolved
ammonia. However, no urea or uric acid was detected
in any of the samples, indicating that complete decomposition
had occurred since excretion.


https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00750100

The goal is to maintain sufficient nitrogen to the trees, correct?
I am wondering if it matters how the tree is supplied?
Is it better to use a purchased foliar amendment or to use something we usually dispose of as waste?
I am a self-reliant penny-pincher. 

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2018, 10:26:14 AM »
Pineislnder its your tree do as you wish. 

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2018, 10:45:17 AM »
Foliar sprays can enter into the leaf only as long as the foliar spray remains in the liquid state.  Once it drys, it can no longer be absorbed by the tree.  When urea is used the situation is a little different.   Urea is highly hygroscopic.  Hygroscopic is the ability of a substance to absorb  moisture/water from its surroundings; because of this effect, after urea is sprayed on the foliage, and eventually dries, it re-hydrates into a usable nutrient as the humidity rises. Therefore, because of this property it is a valuable additive to add a small amount of urea to other foliar sprays such as a trace mineral spray, because it will re-moisturize the spray, making foliar sprays much more nutrient efficient.   
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 12:21:35 PM by Millet »

pineislander

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2018, 05:41:59 PM »
Foliar sprays can enter into the leaf only as long as the foliar spray remains in the liquid state.  Once it drys, it can no longer be absorbed by the tree.  When urea is used the situation is a little different.   Urea is highly hygroscopic.  Hygroscopic is the ability of a substance to absorb or adsorb moisture/water from its surroundings; because of this effect, after urea is sprayed on the foliage, and eventually dries, it re-hydrates into a usable nutrient as the humidity rises. Therefore, because of this property it is a valuable additive to add a small amount of urea to other foliar sprays such as a trace mineral spray, because it will re-moisturize the spray, making foliar sprays much more nutrient efficient.
If you are doing foliar low biuret N you might want to look into the newer urea triazone products. Supposed to be better than old fashioned urea with less salts, more soluble N and a better carrier for micros.
N-sure and Triamin

Waiting

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2018, 07:36:33 PM »
After delving further into Hi-Yield Spreader Sticker in order to answer the question I've come to the conclusion that it shouldn't be used. It consists of alcohol ethoxylate and alkylphenol ethoxylate. Alcohol ethoxylate appears to be surfactant only while alkylphenol ethoxylate does have emulsifying properties. Alcohol ethoxylate appears to be safe, however alkylphenol ethoxylate is an xenoestrogen (it acts as an estrogen). It's been proven to cause the feminization of aquatic organisms and decrease male fertility in those organisms. There are predictions that most men in North America, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand will be infertile by 2060 and I have to wonder if ths is a contributing factor.

Bonide brand spreader/sticker, which contains the same ingredients, is listed as "not for sale in California". Of course, that could just be because they refuse to pay the fees California demands for certification.

Southern Ag spreader/sticker contains octyl phenol polyethoxy ethanol, a known carcinogen,  and also contains isopropanol, rubbing alcohol. Monterey "spray helper" is mostly cotton seed oil but also contains the above mentioned xenoestrogen, at 17%, and isopropanol.

I could find little to suggest that Tween 20 (Polysorbate 20), suggested by Millet, is harmful. Polysorbate 20 and Polysorbate 80 are the same base chemocal, polyethoxylated sorbitan. The difference being lauric acid.added to Polysorbate 20, and oleic acid added to Polysorbate 80. Polysorbate 80 is not known to be carcinogenic, but studies have found decrease fertility in rats at very high rates of ingestion. The key being "very high rates". So, Tween 20  appears to be the safest option.

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2018, 09:14:52 PM »
In the outstanding text book "Advances in Citrus Nutrition", Tween-20, a food grade surfactant, was in all studies found to be the best surfactant for citrus tree applications.

GregW

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2018, 06:28:50 PM »
Millet, thanks for the reminder. I sprayed my 2 Arctic Frost today. I mixed up 1 quart of the Urea solution                     (25 grams/quart)
I applied the solution to both sides of the leaves.
This is a make or break year for this variety for me.
Hopefully this will make a difference.

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2018, 04:21:06 PM »
For those that have already sprayed their trees with low biuret urea to set a larger fruit set in the coming crop, now there are several more sprays needed to insure that the fruits will be good FRUIT SIZE and the finest quality.  The amount of building materials, energy and hormones that are available to the developing fruit controls fruit size.  When the tree sets a heavy crop, the fruit's size will be reduced if there is an insufficient amount of any one of these factors. Summer applications of low biuret urea (46-0-0 > 0.5%. biuret) applied after the completion of EARLY FRUIT DROP, and then another spray  after most of "JUNE" drop will increase fruit size without affecting total yield.  Timing of the applications are important. The treatments increase fruit size by extending the cell division stage. The end of cell division is characterized by maximum peel thickness. In California the "June" drop sprays should be made between July 1 and July 15th. All applications should be made to give good canopy coverage, much like applying a pesticide.  All applications of low biuret urea should be made when the air temperature is below 80-F, early morning or late afternoon to early evening. The urea spray already completed, plus the spraying at early fruit drop, and June drop will give a larger crop, with fruit of nice size and high quality. (Crop Production Manual).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 11:37:22 AM by Millet »

luak

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2018, 03:46:49 PM »
Slicko, citrus is more sensitive than most crops to biuret, an impurity present in urea fertilizer created by excessive heating of chemical reactants during urea manufacture.  Toxicity can result from soil or foliar spray applications of urea applications with elevated biuret concentration. If urea is used as a nitrogen source for citrus, it should contain not more than 0.25 - 0.50% biuret by weight.  The leaf symptoms of biuret toxicity appear as an irregular butter yellow chlorosis that starts at the leaf tip.  Young leaves are more vulnerable than old ones, and affected leaves do not regreen.  On very young, expanding leaves, urea with a biuret concentration in excess of 1.0% may cause distortion as well as typical yellowing.  Succeeding growth flushes appear normal, provided applications of High biuret urea is not repeated.
[/quote/
Tween 20 food grade, what brand do you use Millet and where do you order this. Amazon has a product called: polisorbanate 20 made by a florida company.

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2018, 04:41:13 PM »
Luak, Tween-20 is a trade name.  The chemical name is Polysorbat-20. Polysorbat-20 is the very same chemical.

Tony714

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2018, 07:16:27 PM »
Thank you for your informative post.  it's great for newbie like me.
quick questions:   do you spray on leaves? and do you use 1 or 2 gallon sprayer from Homedepot?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 10:31:17 AM by Tony714 »

Badfish8696

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2018, 01:43:11 AM »
Going to try a foliar spray on my in ground citrus and avocados this year. It is an organic product called Acadian derived from seaweed, analysis is 0.1-0.0-5.0. I had to buy 2.5 gallons and it was pretty expensive, looks like soy sauce. The dose is quite dilute so I have my doubts on how effective it will be but why not. I am going to use about 4oz. in about 4 gallons of water for approximately 40 trees. Just tried it out on a handful of trees to make sure there are no adverse effects and then I will apply the rest. I did not use a surfactant, as my fertilizer supplier said it was not necessary. Looks like they recommend every 2-4 weeks through the growing season. Will report back if anything interesting happens.

I am also using an organic dry fertilizer now, the stuff looks and smells like rabbit food. It is from True Organic Products with a 10-2-8 analysis.

Those two combined with yards and yards of mulch will hopefully give me a solid organic solution to my fertilizing needs.

Tony714

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2018, 11:28:02 PM »
Oh  boy,  i got 20lbs by accident from Amazon for only 1 cocktail tree.  It will last me forever.

.44 lb ~  approximate 11 table spoon.  Someone may need to double check it.

Question because someone said dont over due it.  So for 2 gallons  mixed, how big is the tree?

Ilya11

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2018, 03:19:48 AM »
Be careful, biuret is forming from urea during storage.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2018, 12:39:28 PM »
Tony I use a 3-gallon Solo sprayer. With 3 gallons I sprayed two large trees, a Cara Cara, and Saint Teresa Lemon. Medium sized Valentine pummelo, Dekopon, Marsh grapefruit, Ponkan all of which are planted in the ground., plus 9 or 10 container tees.   You don't have to over due it just wet the upper and lower surfaces of the leaf.  NOTE:  NEVER spray a citrus tree with anything during the heat of the day.  Spray in the morning or evenings, or on cloudy days.  You can spray when the temperature will stay under 80-F.

Tony714

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2018, 02:02:46 PM »
Great.  I'll spray it today evening after work.   I probably have to sell the extra to local.  If I can't sell it, is it good for any other trees?.  1 click purchase from Amazon is not convenience sometime.

Thank you Millet for your info.
tony

Millet

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Re: Its Now Time To Foliar Feed For Best Crop Of Fruit
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2018, 03:38:34 PM »
Tony, perhaps other members of this forum would like to purchase so  low biuret Urea from you.

 

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