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Author Topic: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?  (Read 1493 times)

FruitFreak

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ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« on: February 02, 2018, 02:35:56 PM »
I was wondering, is there a better way to categorize the forum so we don't get continually flooded with international threads?  It would be really cool to have a designated forum for DOMESTIC sales.  Just a thought. 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:12:34 PM by FruitFreak »
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starch

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Re: MODERATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2018, 07:33:43 PM »
Moderators do not have the capability to modify the structure of the forum (e.g. cannot add or remove subforums). This request would have to be implemented by the administrators.
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FruitFreak

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Re: MODERATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2018, 08:11:46 PM »
Moderators do not have the capability to modify the structure of the forum (e.g. cannot add or remove subforums). This request would have to be implemented by the administrators.

Thanks Starch!

*Correction FORUM ADMINISTRATORS
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Samu

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2018, 01:07:38 PM »
Yes, I vote for separation of Domestic (USA) buyers/sellers to that of Internatinal one.
Seems like too many international sellers’ offerings that of no interest to most of us, US residents that do not live in the Tropics. To those that have Green Houses or want to pursue the “Tropical” offerings, they can still do it too.

monkeyfish

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2018, 12:30:47 AM »

This is a capital idea and I'm all for it.

On the one hand, if I'm looking for a particular species, I will click every mention of it for sale, often to find that the seller is on the other side of the planet, and chances are that I do not want to pay 15 dollars for the shipment of several seeds, do not want to wait 3 weeks for them to arrive, and do not want to see them destroyed by rough handling or by customs.

Both of the latter have befallen me here.


This also would work in reverse - I could post seeds for sale and not be bothered by requests to ship them over seas, and bothered by having to politely decline such requests and explain my reasoning.

I'm hoping more people will speak their mind about this, I think it would be a big improvement.  It would save wasted time and wasted money.

I'm also curious to see if there might be any dissenting views. I cannot think of any downside to it.



FruitFly

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2018, 01:12:49 AM »
I feel if it was a tropical to subtropical buy, sell, trade within the states, Great! Honestly though, like Samu says there really aren't that many tropical to subtropical climes in the US so separating the tropical section of the Tropical Fruit Forum into domestic vs intnl. makes little sense. Look at who's posting b4 you buy. If you live in a temperate climate or worse and you don't have a green house. Look in the temperate section. Leave the tropical one alone. It's much easier for those of us who live in a subtropical climate or better and can attempt to grow these plants to look in one place rather than two.

monkeyfish

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2018, 01:53:49 AM »


The OP made no mention of tropical versus subtropical versus temperate, the issue introduced was domestic buy/sell/trade versus international buy/sell/trade.



Separating the tropical section of the Tropical Fruit Forum into domestic vs intnl. makes little sense???

It makes perfect sense to me.



Look at who's posting b4 you buy???

That is the time-waster in essence. Take one example:

dreamfrutas has an active thread titled RARE JABUTICABA BRANCA VINHO GIGANTE DA ESALQ - very limited quantities

According to the information displayed he has 521 posts and lives in a place called "Let´s Trade!"

Okay, he would rather not divulge his location, his prerogative, but it puts me in the dark.

If there were a subforum, I could choose to not waste my time viewing his offerings.


I've been burned on international seed purchases and would like to be able to easily avoid looking at international listings. The subforum would facilitate that greatly.


stuartdaly88

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2018, 07:18:08 AM »
As an international I wouldnt mind either way but thought I would add my 2c.

Do you really think having sub-forums would stop internationals posting for sale stuff in the American sub forum?

Even now you get tropical offers in temperate, trades in main forum, citrus in main forum, temperate in main forum. Many people dont really read ha ha.

Another thought is that this Buy,Sell,Trade-forum isn't all that busy already. Wouldn't it be dead if separated? For some reason it seems that postings build on one another and the more stuff that gets posted the more stuff will keep getting posted if you see my meaning. Look at the Veg buy,sell,trade sub-forum (dead dead dead) would be better to have a sub-forum for all edible plant sales IMO.

Maybe if they do that have a sub-forum for all edibles(Citrus, tropical, temperate veg and herb) but then have a American and unamerican version?
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
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Bush2Beach

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2018, 10:47:14 AM »
Lets not further sub divide the forum. Keep all the sub tropical , Tropical offerings in one place. It takes the same time to whiff a Cherimoya it does to see where your material is coming from . If you don't want to buy from international sellers for whatever reason then don't, but those are some of the best sellers ,offering material not available elsewhere .

barath

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2018, 11:42:15 AM »
Lets not further sub divide the forum. Keep all the sub tropical , Tropical offerings in one place. It takes the same time to whiff a Cherimoya it does to see where your material is coming from . If you don't want to buy from international sellers for whatever reason then don't, but those are some of the best sellers ,offering material not available elsewhere .

I agree.

HIfarm

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2018, 11:43:31 AM »
All of this seems like a non-issue, it doesn't seem like we need more subdivisions.  If you are annoyed that some posters don't list their region, that is another matter & maybe it should get added to requirements to post.

I have a lot of bitches with international sales & I am sure I have been burnt a lot worse than you.  I don't see that as a reason for more subdivisions.

As for:
"Seems like too many international sellers’ offerings that of no interest to most of us, US residents that do not live in the Tropics. To those that have Green Houses or want to pursue the “Tropical” offerings, they can still do it too."
If this bothers you, why the &*%@ are you on a tropical fruit forum?  (an international one at that)

John

FruitFreak

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2018, 12:08:45 PM »
I make no mention of subdividing tropical and subtropical sale folders - that would be too cumbersome and would not benefit sellers/buyers.

My thought process is by having a domestic sales folder the browsing process is simplified.  It essentially streamlines the connection between buyer and seller.  For domestic buyers, instead of having to sort through a plethora of irrelevant international threads you can click on Domestic Sales and quickly see what is relevant and available.  If you are specifically looking for seeds not shown in the domestic folder then you can always browse the international folder.  In my opinion the forum should evolve to optimize the end user experience which benefits both buyer and seller.  The increased volume of international sellers is definitely effecting the visibility/thread longevity of domestic sellers. 
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FruitFreak

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2018, 12:11:23 PM »
Lets not further sub divide the forum. Keep all the sub tropical , Tropical offerings in one place. It takes the same time to whiff a Cherimoya it does to see where your material is coming from . If you don't want to buy from international sellers for whatever reason then don't, but those are some of the best sellers ,offering material not available elsewhere .

My proposal was to subdivide domestic offerings not tropical/subtropical and I'm not sure your understanding the problem. 

The problem is that international offerings have exponentially flooded the forum and the domestic thread longevity and visibility has been affected.  This makes it much more difficult for a buyer trying to connect with local/domestic seller and vise versa.  I have successfully purchased from international buyers and have nothing against them.  This proposal is all about browsing efficiency.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 12:17:55 PM by FruitFreak »
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sildanani

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2018, 12:11:37 PM »
Separating domestic from international sounds nice, but I don't think it would be that convenient, seeing that some international vendors tend to post unrelated threads in the wrong sub-forums. Also, I feel that the traffic on the forum would decrease from such a drastic change.

Overall, I like the forum layout. It just bugs me when members post in the wrong forums. Don't think its too preventable though.

One of my pet peeves is when vendors create multiple individual posts, instead of updating everything as one thread. It would be convenient if we enforced using an ongoing thread as a rule. Even though there are some awesome offerings, its overwhelming to see so many individual posts.

It would be cool if there were some way to make location mandatory when signing up or a forum security update requesting location as mandatory information. With this change, we could filter out what can be posted where without having to manually delete inappropriate postings.
Anisha

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2018, 02:11:14 PM »
As an international I wouldnt mind either way but thought I would add my 2c.

Do you really think having sub-forums would stop internationals posting for sale stuff in the American sub forum?

Even now you get tropical offers in temperate, trades in main forum, citrus in main forum, temperate in main forum. Many people dont really read ha ha.

Another thought is that this Buy,Sell,Trade-forum isn't all that busy already. Wouldn't it be dead if separated? For some reason it seems that postings build on one another and the more stuff that gets posted the more stuff will keep getting posted if you see my meaning. Look at the Veg buy,sell,trade sub-forum (dead dead dead) would be better to have a sub-forum for all edible plant sales IMO.

Maybe if they do that have a sub-forum for all edibles(Citrus, tropical, temperate veg and herb) but then have a American and unamerican version?
+1
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fyliu

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2018, 02:29:19 PM »
I agree generally with sellers not separating their things in different threads. I do like the way JF make a new thread for his sales for every new year and referring to the old threads for info. He also tries to keep the thread on topic until the sale is over.

I don't see a benefit for separating international sale threads since there aren't so many of them compared to the US(Florida) ones. I used to want to filter out all the Florida mango threads but that was like half the forum at the time. Florida growing experience isn't relevant to my area, and I'm not that interested in mango.

To be really useful for international sellers, we would need subforums for general regions like EU, S. America, Africa, SE Asia, India, Australia, because EU buyers don't want to see international sellers either, and so forth. There'd be a handful of threads in each one though, except the US one. Everybody would need the option to ignore the region they don't want to see.

FruitFreak, I understand what you're feeling. I went through the same thing myself several years ago. Even Asaffron went though this and he's in central Florida and didn't like seeing so many south Florida threads that weren't relevant to his growing conditions.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 02:34:09 PM by fyliu »

Annonaceae

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2018, 02:30:09 AM »
All of this seems like a non-issue, it doesn't seem like we need more subdivisions.  If you are annoyed that some posters don't list their region, that is another matter & maybe it should get added to requirements to post.

I have a lot of bitches with international sales & I am sure I have been burnt a lot worse than you.  I don't see that as a reason for more subdivisions.

As for:
"Seems like too many international sellers’ offerings that of no interest to most of us, US residents that do not live in the Tropics. To those that have Green Houses or want to pursue the “Tropical” offerings, they can still do it too."
If this bothers you, why the &*%@ are you on a tropical fruit forum?  (an international one at that)

John

I tend to agree with John on this one. And wish to say that most of the people who I trade with or sell / buy to are from the USA and in non tropical areas. All that will happen is that if there was a domestic subgroup then international buyers would see something they like, PM them and of cause they will probably still post out internationally.

monkeyfish

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2018, 01:04:09 AM »



stuartdaly88 makes a good point, when people do not follow the rules as they are, then further refining the rules is futile, and when moderators do not chastise them for incorrect posting, they have less incentive for doing right. Indeed, when there is no penalty for breaking rules, then people will generally tend to disregard them.

I also like the idea that buy/sell/trade for all edibles (Citrus, tropical, temperate, veg and herb) be lumped together, then subdivided by domestic & international, but that would change the structure of the entire site, so would likely not be worth the trouble.



Well I'm dismayed that this thread has lost traction and appears to be dead in the water, but I have one last idea to interject:



I notice that the buy/sell page has two columns of icons in front of the column of posts. These seem quite superfluous to me. I'm not finding any documentation on these, but the first column seems to show an icon which indicates the type of file in the link, and they seem to be all the same - the links all point to document or text type of file.  Granted, there is a different icon for a one-page, two-page or three-page document, but that information can be surmised easily just by the number of replies. 

The second column, I'm not even sure what those icons signify, and I'm not sure which of the two columns is more un-necessary. Chances are that one of them could be eliminated and nobody would miss it, and it could then be repurposed. Even if that were not the case, it looks like there would be space enough to simply add a third column.  In any case, the new column would contain a simple iso-2 country code, and most folks are already familiar with these codes, such as US, CA, MX, FR, BE, LU, DE, PL etcetera.


The official codes are listed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2



So this change would be simple to implement, would not change the structure of the site, and would be beneficial to everyone.  Instead of just domestic vs international differentiation, everybody everywhere could instantly see the location of the plant part at offer or at request, without ever having to click the link and load the corresponding page, which may or may not indicate that location.


There would have to be a hard rule coded: a listing for buy/sell/trade would not and will not post without this required field being filled.


Recently there was a mandate applied that all sales must include the price, and that is a good thing, but this rule requires constant moderation to assure compliance.

With a hard rule for country code, virtually no moderation would be needed. The form will not submit without it.



This idea to me seems beyond reproach, but I'm certainly interested in opinions, pro and con.

Thanks for your time, over and out.




fyliu

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 01:19:42 PM »
Adding the country where the plant material is from is a good idea. It would eliminate the ambiguity of what "foreign" means.

I'm not seeing a way to easily implement the hard rule for requiring country code for buy/sell/trade posts. Maybe we will have to ask sellers to include their location in the subject and lean on the moderators to patrol this until a technical solution becomes available.

Even better would be a finer designation for the US and other places with a range of climates.

A technical solution would be to automatically insert the user location at the start of the post title. Like this:

[U.S., Florida, Kissimmee, zone 9b] Just in: GIANT YELLOW MEGALANTHUS SEEDS FROM PERU XL

Maybe 2 rows is better?

Just in: GIANT YELLOW MEGALANTHUS SEEDS FROM PERU XL
[U.S., Florida, Kissimmee, zone 9b]

monkeyfish

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 01:52:02 PM »


I had a friend read my last post, he said I sounded like a POMPOUS ASS, but that the idea itself seemed like a good one. He's a programmer too, but not a member of this forum. So I'll chalk that up as a +1 . Does nobody else wish to vote?

monkeyfish

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2018, 01:55:07 PM »


Thanks for your input fyliu.  I thought about the finer designation you mention, but I decided to not mention it just to keep things simple at first. Just the country code by itself would be a huge boon I think, and I don't want to gum up the works with too much detail at the outset. The first hurdle is the big one, refinements can always follow later.

As far as the actual coding, I know very little about SMF and how the form submit function can be tweaked, but I will look into it. Where there's a will there's a way.


fyliu

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2018, 02:07:26 PM »
I have some experience writing web forum and web applications. Most of my software experience is elsewhere. I think the column change and the hard posting requirement is a bigger change than just adding the location to the title. It's harder to limit the column display and posting requirement to just the buy/sell/trade subforum.

monkeyfish

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2018, 09:11:06 PM »


Adding the location to the title seems easier, but I was hoping to see a way that the 'voluntary compliance problem' could be circumvented, and extra work for the moderators thus avoided also. Let's face it, if it entails continual and ongoing effort to keep in place, the idea is not likely to fly. It needs to be completely automated.

To utilize the functionality of an existing mod, it would only take a few minutes for the maintainers to put it into place, and its done.

I really would like to see that happen.



The 'Custom Form Mod' might fill the bill:

"these forms are essentially a structured way of allowing your users to submit posts to certain boards, meaning that you can get them to enter certain information into a form and then you can chose how you want that information to be presented within the final outputted post."


https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1279


AS can be seen in this test image, 'required fields' is a settable parameter. 

https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?action=download;mod=1279;id=89990;image




Instead of ISO codes, maybe flagatars could be stirred into the mix:

https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1729



I'm just poking around, maybe grasping at straws, the problem is thatI'm unfamiliar with the software and yet trying to see a way this could easily be done with the existing tools at hand.

Maybe it simply starts at the profile page - add one 'required' field, now everybody has to update profile on login and select a country code, in order to proceed.



When one registers to the site, they have to provide a user name and passwaord, and an email address, would it be so intrusive that they also have to provide a country of residence?


It may not be the ideal solution, but...


================


I'm hoping that one of the moderators will see value in the idea and submit a feature request to admin. If admin doesn't like it, it ain't gonna happen, no matter how easy it might be to implement. In that case there's not a lot we can do about it.


If there's no downloadable mod that can do the job, hell, I'd be willing to roll up my sleeves and write one myself.  That is how much I believe in the idea.

mike rule

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 01:20:06 AM »
Monkeyfish.... Your all for local's only & want a special link for only local's & want members to put where their country of origin is, but on your profile its just  " south of the river " Where in the world is that location ?????

Bush2Beach

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Re: ADMINISTRATORS - Wanted: Designated Forum for Domestic sales?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 06:36:41 AM »
No doubt, No doubt. Finger always points over there, not right here.
This idea may not be gaining traction because it could be filed in the not necessary or particularly useful file. If a seller does not answer a question that is not already obvious or described in the post like location, freshness of material etc. that's a warning sign to buy from someone else. Most of the seller's here build up a good reputation, or not and are blown out of the water rather quickly.

Monkeyfish.... Your all for local's only & want a special link for only local's & want members to put where their country of origin is, but on your profile its just  " south of the river " Where in the world is that location ?????

 

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