Author Topic: Time to water?  (Read 9022 times)

Orkine

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Time to water?
« on: March 04, 2018, 02:51:14 PM »
A couple of months ago I was worried the dry season was too wet and things may go sideways with my mangos.
Well, the last months in particular has been dry in my area and though others a mile or so away got two good showers I got no rain.
Grass is beginning to go brown and while my trees are not showing any stress signes, they have flowers and I'd hate to loose them due to water stress.
My question is, is anyone in south Florida experiencing this and are you irrigating?

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 05:28:15 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:43:48 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

Cookie Monster

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 08:58:12 PM »
Supplemental irrigation is key to good production. Irrigate your trees once or twice a week during the dry season for best results.
Jeff  :-)

palmcity

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 10:20:22 PM »
Supplemental irrigation is key to good production. Irrigate your trees once or twice a week during the dry season for best results.

I could see this for 3 gallon size... But, do you or people like Squam with large trees actually continue to irrigate twice a week when the trees are large like his???

If there is a size  when you decrease or cease watering to once a week or even once every 2-3 weeks during dry periods for very large trees,,,,,,or do grove owners/sellers of mangos always water at least once to twice a week for all mango trees regardless of tree size or maturity.....Please inform... Also I assume you cease watering during more dormant dry periods like nov. Dec.... but please inform.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 10:57:34 PM by palmcity »

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 05:11:05 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:46:03 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

pineislander

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 08:07:29 AM »

Jani

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 08:45:25 AM »
For what its worth, forecasted to get some decent rain across south Florida tomorrow from a cold front.
always longing for a JA Julie

Raulglezruiz

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 08:47:07 AM »
Here in Puerto Vallarta, most commercial mango groves are in lands that only have rain water, so they have lots of rain from July-November then dry season from December through June, with some sporadic rainy days 3-5 around February,
My trees are small now buy in a couple of years I'm going to stop watering, I kind of think with less water the flavor is more concentrated and fruits are prone to reduce disease. 
El verde es vida!

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 08:52:42 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:47:30 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

zands

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 10:18:42 AM »
Here in Puerto Vallarta, most commercial mango groves are in lands that only have rain water, so they have lots of rain from July-November then dry season from December through June, with some sporadic rainy days 3-5 around February,
My trees are small now buy in a couple of years I'm going to stop watering, I kind of think with less water the flavor is more concentrated and fruits are prone to reduce disease.
Was prolly four seasons ago it was really dry as mango fruits were growing. The flavors got concentrated so much that my Nam Doc Mai came out complex flavored. The second half of my Nam Doc Mai production actually. I did not water any mango trees but others just might be right that watering in such conditions increases mango production, size etc.  So you get more pounds of mangoes so more money if selling them.

Watering right at the base of the mango tree will not make it disease prone in such dry conditions

palmcity

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 10:30:41 AM »
I kind of think with less water the flavor is more concentrated

Similar opinions were largely prevalent this past year during rainy summer by many forum members in S. Fl... However, opinions vary as seen in this article saying quality suffers without irrigation. "Mango tree is considered drought resistant to some extent; however soil moisture influences the fruit size, quality as well as the drop of immature fruits. Under hot and dry climate, the irrigation prevents the drop of immature fruits during fruit development period. It is also observed that the moisture deficit in soil results in early maturity to fruits resulting in poor fruit quality. Thus,regular irrigation as per tree requirement during fruit development and maturity period improves not only yield but also the quality of fruits. Properly irrigated trees have fruits of better size and juicier than those trees with soil moisture deficit. When to irrigate and how much to irrigate? is important for maximum fruit yield and quality." https://www.scribd.com/doc/55363171/Mango-Water-Requirement   ......................Also:
"Irrigation during the fruit developmental stage of mango is vital to prevent fruit drop and to increase the development of young fruit. Additional irrigation from fruit set to ripening will result in a significant improvement in both fruit size and quality. Therefore, success of mango orchards depends largely on method and management of irrigation. Proper irrigation scheduling,especially during critical periods of tree growth and fruit development, plays vital role in the sustainability of orchard."

As you mentioned Raul, I too prefer to water as little as possible as long as I get enough fruit. I have not noticed in S.Fl. the drop in fruit quality noted in the report cited above. However, they may have longer and more severe arid periods or may be referring to different varieties and different root stocks.


Cookie Monster

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 10:35:14 AM »
Yes. In fact, Alex (Squam) during one of his latest presentations (which can be found on another thread), said that irrigating mango trees once or twice per week during the dry season helps prevent fruit abscission.

And if we start talking about less drought tolerant trees (eg, jackfruit, soursop, jaboticaba, etc), harvest can be substantially affected when in drought stress -- both in terms of fruit size and amount.

I tried it both ways. For years, I didn't irrigate at all. Mango crops were smaller, and some trees didn't really want to fruit at all (jaboticaba, soursop, etc). With irrigation, crops are quite a bit larger, and trees are visibly healthier during the dry season.

The other thing to keep in mind is that water is what transports nutrients from the roots to the leaves. So nutrient absorption is slowed during periods of drought. And if this happens to correspond to the period when fruits are developing, that means less nutrients available to developing fruits (probably less brix as well).

Also, keeping soil moist is key to keeping soil microbes, worms, etc happy. You'll notice that when the soil is dry, worm castings will disappear.

The idea of zero-input gardening is cute. But providing an environment in which your trees can thrive is key to a great harvest.

I could see this for 3 gallon size... But, do you or people like Squam with large trees actually continue to irrigate twice a week when the trees are large like his???
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 10:40:37 AM by Cookie Monster »
Jeff  :-)

palmcity

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 10:43:24 AM »
Irrigate your trees once or twice a week during the dry season for best results.

Cookie, What do you consider the dry season to water continually once or twice a week for here in S. Fl.??
A. Feb. 1st to May 31st
B. Feb. 1st to april 30th
c. Other dates & if so what???

Just wondering when you began watering as it has recently been dry and I may also change my practices on watering if the pump can handle the volume needed... ha ..
I know there is no absolute time for arid conditions in S. Fl.... just a guesstimate..
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 10:51:23 AM by palmcity »

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2018, 10:50:18 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:48:16 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

palmcity

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2018, 10:57:39 AM »
I'm still amazed at how early Squam gets his mangos to flower...

I know we have earlier cooler temperatures as more North than he; that should induce bloom earlier than where he is located... Is he perhaps also watering earlier as a stimulus to induce the early bloom???  If so, I might try that next year too if I knew when to start as I know a dormant dry period is said to be needed too for bloom production...

Cookie Monster

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2018, 11:14:32 AM »
It actually varies from year to year :-). This year it started about a month ago? I can tell pretty easily by looking at the soil. If the earthworms are not active (as evinced by castings), then it's dry :-).

Irrigate your trees once or twice a week during the dry season for best results.

Cookie, What do you consider the dry season to water continually once or twice a week for here in S. Fl.??
A. Feb. 1st to May 31st
B. Feb. 1st to april 30th
c. Other dates & if so what???

Just wondering when you began watering as it has recently been dry and I may also change my practices on watering if the pump can handle the volume needed... ha ..
I know there is no absolute time for arid conditions in S. Fl.... just a guesstimate..
Jeff  :-)

Cookie Monster

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2018, 11:16:56 AM »
Doubt that watering would induce bloom. I think drought is a signal, but a weak one. The best bloom stimulus is cold weather. It's also cultivar-dependent. The julie, for example, will be stimulated to bloom if you walk past it with a cold beer :D.

I'm still amazed at how early Squam gets his mangos to flower...

I know we have earlier cooler temperatures as more North than he; that should induce bloom earlier than where he is located... Is he perhaps also watering earlier as a stimulus to induce the early bloom???  If so, I might try that next year too if I knew when to start as I know a dormant dry period is said to be needed too for bloom production...
Jeff  :-)

Cookie Monster

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2018, 11:30:45 AM »
Water is the transport mechanism for those nutrients. Soil microbes (which aid in nutrient absorption) thrive in damp soil. Moreover, earthworms are averse to dry soil. It's a balancing act.

The idea of one size fits all is completely ridiculous. All locations are not created equal.  Know your soil. I add different inputs at least 25 days a month during the growing season.  Our farm plan is approved by a USDA Organic Certifier and we do all Bio-Dynamic Preparations for Demeter Certification.  I do not consider water an input.
Jeff  :-)

Tropicalgrower89

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2018, 02:05:38 PM »
I usually turn on the irrigation system twice a week for 2 hour periods.
Alexi

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Time to water
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2018, 04:05:53 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:49:27 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

Orkine

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2018, 04:52:21 PM »
This is all great discussion guys.
My takeaway so far.
I will likely irrigate (depending on the rainfall or lack thereof.)
I will be stingier with my mature trees but more regular with my younger trees.
I will check out earth worm activity to help with the decision on when to irrigate

Please keep the opinions coming.

Tropicalgrower89

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Re: Time to water
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2018, 05:43:16 PM »
Clay soils are not like muck soils are not like sandy soils are not like rocky soils,  We happen to have very high water table with sandy loam soil, rich in organic matter which is still moist in many areas during dry periods.  We have stock tanks that channel out thru the grove that drain the grove.  I can tell the height of the water table by the stock tanks which I fill as needed. If I watered everything twice a week it would be too much at my location and would cause major fungal issues and a host of other problems.  Obviously water is required as I stated above “ I am flooding my grove. “.  I’m just presenting my experience which works for me at our location.  I had no idea that modifying a water regime would be so controversial.

I agree. It depends on the soil. In my case, I have deep well-drained sandy soil which dries up quickly.
Alexi

zands

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 04:41:06 PM »
This is all great discussion guys.
My takeaway so far.
I will likely irrigate (depending on the rainfall or lack thereof.)
I will be stingier with my mature trees but more regular with my younger trees.
I will check out earth worm activity to help with the decision on when to irrigate
Please keep the opinions coming.

Water can be the best fertilizer for younger trees --- Harry   

Older trees with their more extensive root systems find their water. Also morning dew on their more extensive leaf system waters the tree. Same for light rains

Cookie Monster

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2018, 05:03:38 PM »
Older trees have more extensive root systems. However, nutrients are typically absorbed by the fibrous roots found in the top few inches of soil -- which dries out during our dry season (that's why your grass turns brown).

Mature (and even young) mango trees will produce crops and grow adequately well without irrigation. They will also produce crops in complete absence of external input. However, best production / highest fruit quality is obtained by providing an environment in which nutrition is readily available during fruit growth.

There are other species out there that will go into decline if not provided with supplemental water during drought. For example, I have jackfruit trees that are over a decade old. Yet, as soon as the dry season hits, the leaves droop. If I don't irrigate, they abort most of the fruit, and leaf abscission and chlorosis sets in. There are many others which are averse to drought -- soursop, jaboticaba, mamey sapote, etc.

Best is to irrigate to mitigate drought stress.
Jeff  :-)

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Time to water?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 05:30:46 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 05:51:56 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

 

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