Author Topic: Carambola deficiency I.D.  (Read 2261 times)

IndigoEmu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • US, Florida, Longwood, 9b
    • View Profile
Carambola deficiency I.D.
« on: October 17, 2018, 07:12:04 PM »
Some of the new growth is coming in yellow-ish and a bit wrinkled, looks different than iron deficiency the teee came out of with applications of sulfur. Is it nitrogen?

https://i.imgur.com/D4PLUZz_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/QSEvHUY_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/oxohfBe_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

FruitFreak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 869
    • USA, FL, Naples, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 08:13:24 AM »
Some of the new growth is coming in yellow-ish and a bit wrinkled, looks different than iron deficiency the teee came out of with applications of sulfur. Is it nitrogen?

https://i.imgur.com/D4PLUZz_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/QSEvHUY_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/oxohfBe_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

I don't see any obvious signs of deficiency.  The pale green color is common with most new growth. 
- Marley

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4744
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 09:38:53 AM »
Looks like normal healthy carambola. Congrats.
Jeff  :-)

greenman62

  • CharlesitaveNB
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1277
    • [url=https://vgruk.com/]vgr uk[/url]
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 12:54:47 PM »
the newer growth has some red in it, usually (from my experience only)
this means iron is OK.
the larger-older leaves darken mainly with magnesium.
it doesnt look "deficient" to me, but i would guess that if you added some mag
the leaves might get a bit darker-green.

another possibility is PH, they like somewhat acid soils.
if you could use some woody mulch or pine needles as mulch it may help.
Epsom is magnesium sulfate, and may help with both problems. (if the PH is high)

IndigoEmu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • US, Florida, Longwood, 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 01:49:37 PM »
It looks a bit more washed out than the normal new growth I’ve been getting earlier throughout the year. That could easily just be my eyes playing tricks on me...I have been hawking over and babying the tree. I’ll hit it with a handful or two of epsom.

Another question; I planted the tree around May and it flowered a lot and set fruit. (Presumably out of stress?) Two fruit recently ripened enough for me to try and they were rather insipid and astringent. Can I expect the fruit flavor to improve with time?

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4744
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 01:59:19 PM »
If you start seeing chlorosis, hit it with some sulfur and a good micronutrient mix.

Carambola can be a bit insipid. The propagated cultivars are generally only astringent if picked too green.

You can increase the brix some by adding calcium, if that's a lacking nutrient. The amount of calcium required for best sugar development is a lot higher than most would assume.
Jeff  :-)

IndigoEmu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • US, Florida, Longwood, 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 08:10:12 PM »
If you start seeing chlorosis, hit it with some sulfur and a good micronutrient mix.

Carambola can be a bit insipid. The propagated cultivars are generally only astringent if picked too green.

You can increase the brix some by adding calcium, if that's a lacking nutrient. The amount of calcium required for best sugar development is a lot higher than most would assume.

Thanks for the tips. The tree is a Kari. It was getting a bit chlorotic early in the year and I did add sulfur; seemed to helped. I’ve also read they show iron deficiencies when cool weather comes around.

I’ll probably invest in some gypsum...I’m located near a sandhill pine forest and my soil is very...well, sandy. I do have the star fruit planted on an old garden bed that’s been amended before with lots of compost though. What are the standard rates for dosing a fruit tree to improve brix?

I might also add that the picked fruit were on bare parts of the tree and getting a lot of sun. There’s one that’s very shaded and it’s looking really good in regards to shape and plumpness.

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4744
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2018, 09:03:51 PM »
I give my kari about 150 - 200 pounds of gypsum a year, but it's a large tree, over 10 years old. Gypsum is inexpensive if you get it from a fertilizer supplier. I get mine for $12 / 50 pound bag... actually just got 1/2 ton delivered the other day to prep for mango season. Brix on mine went from 8's to 12 to 14 with gypsum.

Your young tree probably only needs a few pounds.
Jeff  :-)

mangokothiyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
    • Coral Springs, Florida
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2018, 10:09:44 AM »

Sorry for the thread hijack, but  Jeff, what kind of preparations do you do for the mango season? Gypsum, potassium and what else? Do you use 0-3-16 at this time of the year?

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4744
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2018, 10:38:34 AM »
0-0-6 with micros (a helena mix), 0-3-16, and gypsum in sept / oct. (I apply the 0-0-6 and 0-3-16 a few weeks apart to avoid overloading at once.) Then 0-3-16 in the spring (march-ish).


Sorry for the thread hijack, but  Jeff, what kind of preparations do you do for the mango season? Gypsum, potassium and what else? Do you use 0-3-16 at this time of the year?
Jeff  :-)

Tropicalnut

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
    • Phoenix AZ, Zone 9
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2018, 11:30:17 AM »
Jeff, when you say "a few pounds a year" for a small tree, do you mean? 10, 20, 30lbs? and how often should it be spread around the tree, all at once? or a couple of pounds every two week? I just planted my first one last month so I want to make sure it gets what it needs to prosper. :) Thanks in advance! XE

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4744
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2018, 01:48:25 PM »
OP's tree is pretty small. I don't think there is any risk of over application. In fact, gypsum is recommended to mitigate salinity issues in soil. And it totally depends on circumstances. If you have calcareous soil to begin with, you likely don't need gypsum. Or, if you're on acid soil, calcium carbonate would be a better choice. The key is ensuring that your trees have enough calcium. I've read that ratio of Ca to K should be north of 10 to 1 for max brix (essentially making Ca a super macronutrient). Lack of Ca also produces softer flesh, which in carambola manifests itself as fruit that has little to no crunch.

Usually growers in my area (west broward) don't need to supply calcium. But my situation is very unique. I have a layer of black muck several inches thick, which is the result of a decade worth of ultra heavy mulching. Compost / muck has its own set of advantages and disadvantages, too much K in relation to Ca being one of the bad points. I had the curious experience of observing all the fruits in my orchard drop in sugar content gradually over a 10 year span as the mulch decomposed and feeder roots started to hang out in the richer muck layer.

You could probably also throw the Ca to K and Ca to Mg ratios out of balance by applying too much K or Mg. This can be detected as a color change in fruit flesh (darker orange usually) and softer flesh (eg, internal breakdown in mango). Unless you're in super ca rich soil, you probably don't want to apply K without Ca.

One of the disadvantages of gypsum is that it doesn't seem to stick around for very long. Har, recommended a less soluble form of Ca called soft rock phosphate, which I've been applying as well

Jeff, when you say "a few pounds a year" for a small tree, do you mean? 10, 20, 30lbs? and how often should it be spread around the tree, all at once? or a couple of pounds every two week? I just planted my first one last month so I want to make sure it gets what it needs to prosper. :) Thanks in advance! XE
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 01:50:51 PM by Cookie Monster »
Jeff  :-)

Tropicalnut

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
    • Phoenix AZ, Zone 9
    • View Profile
Re: Carambola deficiency I.D.
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2018, 05:53:06 AM »
Thank you. I hope I can keep it alive and healthy. ;)