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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Vincent on April 16, 2020, 12:26:17 PM

Title: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Vincent on April 16, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
John Painter shared a cherilata with me. In my opinion, it was better than any sugar apple. A raspberry sugar taste with little or no fiber. Very few seeds. Each bite was better than the next. An absolutely beautiful fruit both in appearance and taste. Outstanding John!
(https://i.postimg.cc/G86B5R6z/20200416-111801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G86B5R6z)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on April 16, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
John’s the man! That fruit looks absolutely incredible. I will try to use his Hybrid in future breeding experiments. I just love the Annonas with the pinkish red coloration!  Great work John!

Simon

Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 16, 2020, 02:38:55 PM
That was a nice fruit 1.25 lb.One thing nice I have never had (Bephratelloides cubensis) annona seed wasp get in them ,I (think) seed core is to deep.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 16, 2020, 05:45:25 PM
Quote from: Vincent on April 16, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
John Painter shared a cherilata with me. In my opinion, it was better than any sugar apple. A raspberry sugar taste with little or no fiber. Very few seeds. Each bite was better than the next. An absolutely beautiful fruit both in appearance and taste. Outstanding John!
(https://i.postimg.cc/G86B5R6z/20200416-111801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G86B5R6z)

This is on top of my favorite fruit list.

If I were stranded on an island and could only have one fruit be there and that was my only source of food for the rest of my life, I take John's Cherilata hands down. What an excellent contribution to this world!
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: BonsaiBeast on April 16, 2020, 06:28:25 PM
Does this survive in southern california?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Oolie on April 16, 2020, 06:40:22 PM
Grafted, but waiting for it to push.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: skhan on April 17, 2020, 10:02:22 AM
Is this something John developed himself and is anyone offering budwood?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 17, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
One of the guys from fruitscapes was here today said they have some grafted plants.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Guanabanus on April 17, 2020, 08:58:03 PM
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 18, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Guanabanus

Just some random seeding from california that would make fruit here around up to tennis ball size.That tree did fade away.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Guanabanus on April 18, 2020, 03:46:57 PM
Interesting!

And the pollen parent, variety of Annona reticulata?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 18, 2020, 04:05:51 PM
That very dark fleshed Tikal!
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Guanabanus on April 18, 2020, 07:47:41 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: mikesid on April 18, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
awesome fruit! I will have to stop by fruitscapes soon!! Did the fruit get a cultivar name?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 18, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
Good looking fruit but this is a reticulata. If it was cross with a cherimoya it would look like Lisa or 4718 this has no cherimoya features. This is what a cherimoya cross with reticulata looks like.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xkFYy1nV/096-FF9-CB-21-E0-4-C3-D-8874-1-C8621-D28456.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkFYy1nV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v4hGTvKB/4-F7-A2-AF7-F2-BC-4-CA6-855-A-D53-E04714-CDF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4hGTvKB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yggKfC8g/A38-E953-E-5487-48-F2-9-DF4-92823473597-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yggKfC8g)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 19, 2020, 08:52:26 AM
Jf  do all cherimoyas look alike?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 19, 2020, 11:05:52 AM
Quote from: JF on April 18, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
Good looking fruit but this is a reticulata. If it was cross with a cherimoya it would look like Lisa or 4718 this has no cherimoya features. This is what a cherimoya cross with reticulata looks like.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xkFYy1nV/096-FF9-CB-21-E0-4-C3-D-8874-1-C8621-D28456.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkFYy1nV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v4hGTvKB/4-F7-A2-AF7-F2-BC-4-CA6-855-A-D53-E04714-CDF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4hGTvKB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yggKfC8g/A38-E953-E-5487-48-F2-9-DF4-92823473597-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yggKfC8g)

You seem like you are in denial that this delicious cross exists for some reason ???
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Guanabanus on April 19, 2020, 12:02:35 PM
There are many appearances for these types of crosses.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on April 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: BonsaiBeast on April 16, 2020, 06:28:25 PM
Does this survive in southern california?

I have a graft that has survived through winter and has pushed but it is very small. Looks like it will survive our climate as long as it’s not crazy cold.

Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on April 19, 2020, 02:25:37 PM
Omg! I had no idea these existed. I am going to pick up a 7g from Fruitscapes.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 19, 2020, 02:45:13 PM
Cherilata has no reticulata taste,subacid very pronounced raspberry overtones.Now I have crosses of lisa x tikal that have reticulata overtones and pink mammoth x tikal that had one fruit this winter but died on the stem just before maturity(forced ripe) not to good(not sweet)but I could taste reticulata in it.They had soft flesh,now the Cherilata is very firm fleshed.
 I have feeling it is going to like California's climate more than Florida's as it seems the fruit mature  better in the cool weather
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 19, 2020, 04:27:27 PM
Shot, can you please post pix of the tree so I can see if this is a hybrid or not .
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 19, 2020, 05:46:50 PM
Jf Okay but it will have to be when someone comes by with their phone.I gave up mine like 5 years ago,I found it to be a pain in @ss so I would leave it shut off 98% of the time.The leaves will show its freak.Found a 1.2lb on the ground this morning.In my area I think sugarlata has more commercial potential(hot humid)lowland.I have seed of these from this winter to plant(squamosa x reticulata var. Sarteneja)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on April 19, 2020, 05:55:45 PM
Does anyone have a photo of a Cherilata tree by any chance?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 19, 2020, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: shot on April 19, 2020, 05:46:50 PM
Jf Okay but it will have to be when someone comes by with their phone.I gave up mine like 5 years ago,I found it to be a pain in @ss so I would leave it shut off 98% of the time.The leaves will show its freak.Found a 1.2lb on the ground this morning.In my area I think sugarlata has more commercial potential(hot humid)lowland.I have seed of these from this winter to plant(squamosa x reticulata var. Sarteneja)

We can get some pics for you next time we are over
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Vernmented on April 20, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
I want to go on the record and say that John is one of my all time favorite people ever. He has created an experimental commercial grove unlike anything I have ever seen and have learned so much from him. I have no doubt that this is exactly what he says it is.

Here is the growth of my fresh graft. Looks just like a cherimola x reticulata would look. I hope I keep it alive.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49798547906_f6064694ff_c.jpg)

John, you need to give this thing an official name since it is going to be spread far and wide now.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on April 20, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
Here is my Cherilata I purchased today, it has flowers  ;D

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp/o64-EE3-Rt-RWSYq-DROoz-L2rg.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx/PMVQKui-DQficb-Ku0-SZP3r-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 20, 2020, 06:46:40 PM
Quote from: Garden_Harley_FL on April 20, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
Here is my Cherilata I purchased today, it has flowers  ;D

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp/o64-EE3-Rt-RWSYq-DROoz-L2rg.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx/PMVQKui-DQficb-Ku0-SZP3r-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx)

Niceeee, did you get this at Fruitscapes? Were there more?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on April 20, 2020, 06:54:13 PM
Quote from: Jabba The Hutt on April 20, 2020, 06:46:40 PM
Quote from: Garden_Harley_FL on April 20, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
Here is my Cherilata I purchased today, it has flowers  ;D

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp/o64-EE3-Rt-RWSYq-DROoz-L2rg.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx/PMVQKui-DQficb-Ku0-SZP3r-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx)

Niceeee, did you get this at Fruitscapes? Were there more?

Yes, there were about 4-5 other Cherilata trees - although there was only one or two that were leafing out and bearing flowers, the others were just starting to push leaves but still were decent. They are in 7g and I paid 100$.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 20, 2020, 07:02:36 PM
Quote from: Garden_Harley_FL on April 20, 2020, 06:54:13 PM
Quote from: Jabba The Hutt on April 20, 2020, 06:46:40 PM
Quote from: Garden_Harley_FL on April 20, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
Here is my Cherilata I purchased today, it has flowers  ;D

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp/o64-EE3-Rt-RWSYq-DROoz-L2rg.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yQdQGXp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx/PMVQKui-DQficb-Ku0-SZP3r-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VXzrrSx)

Niceeee, did you get this at Fruitscapes? Were there more?

Yes, there were about 4-5 other Cherilata trees - although there was only one or two that were leafing out and bearing flowers, the others were just starting to push leaves but still were decent. They are in 7g and I paid 100$.

Thanks a lot Harley!
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on April 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: Vernmented on April 20, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
I want to go on the record and say that John is one of my all time favorite people ever. He has created an experimental commercial grove unlike anything I have ever seen and have learned so much from him. I have no doubt that this is exactly what he says it is.

Here is the growth of my fresh graft. Looks just like a cherimola x reticulata would look. I hope I keep it alive.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49798547906_f6064694ff_c.jpg)

John, you need to give this thing an official name since it is going to be spread far and wide now.

I completely agree John Needs a name for this beautiful Hybrid. How about JP Red Cherilata or Painter Red Cherilata or perhaps Raspberry Red Cherilata?

Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 21, 2020, 12:19:47 AM
Josh your leaves look like an atemoya. Haley's leaves look more like a custard apple. If someone can take a picture of John's tree to see which of these two is closer to the mother tree. Here is what a hybrid saramoyo looks like very clear no discrepancies.
 

clear picture of saramoyo and leaves
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzVv2grb/IMG-7544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzVv2grb)
close up of leaves
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYk2T32x/IMG-7560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYk2T32x)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on April 21, 2020, 08:05:51 AM
Quote from: JF on April 21, 2020, 12:19:47 AM
Josh your leaves look like an atemoya. Haley's leaves look more like a custard apple. If someone can take a picture of John's tree to see which of these two is closer to the mother tree. Here is what a hybrid saramoyo looks like very clear no discrepancies.
 

clear picture of saramoyo and leaves
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzVv2grb/IMG-7544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzVv2grb)
close up of leaves
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYk2T32x/IMG-7560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYk2T32x)

Lovely leaves on your Saramoyo, Healthy plant.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JoeP450 on April 22, 2020, 12:37:39 AM
Hey JF,

Can you please elaborate on what exactly your hybrid saramuyo is? Just stating that your hybrid saramuyo looks like it’s sugar apple x reticulata or reticulata x sugar apple as it looks likes the seedlings that I sprouted of which you gave me. This John painter hybrid is of reticulata and cherimoya which is why it looks different. Also on the cherilata which was pollen parent?


-Joe
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Oolie on April 22, 2020, 12:55:01 AM
The seed parent comes first in the name.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 22, 2020, 09:54:41 AM
Quote from: JoeP450 on April 22, 2020, 12:37:39 AM
Hey JF,

Can you please elaborate on what exactly your hybrid saramuyo is? Just stating that your hybrid saramuyo looks like it’s sugar apple x reticulata or reticulata x sugar apple as it looks likes the seedlings that I sprouted of which you gave me. This John painter hybrid is of reticulata and cherimoya which is why it looks different. Also on the cherilata which was pollen parent?


-Joe

Hey Joe this particular saramuyo is a SA x CA. Cross pollination occurs in nature in Yucatán, as there are thousands of trees from both species coexisting side by side in the urban area and the countryside. Josh and Haley’s trees are two different trees. At first sight , Josh appears to be a hybrid and Haley’s seen to be a custard apple. We need to see John tree to identify.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 22, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
My tree is changing leaves now,have to wait for photo.Not uncommon to show both forms of leaves on this tree,correlation to nitrogen levels and vigor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRk0vnMP/giant-sugar-apple.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
What is this?
sugarlata ,bred 1993
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: sunny on April 23, 2020, 07:38:04 AM
Quote from: shot on April 22, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
My tree is changing leaves now,have to wait for photo.Not uncommon to show both forms of leaves on this tree,correlation to nitrogen levels and vigor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRk0vnMP/giant-sugar-apple.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
What is this?
sugarlata ,bred 1993

It's a bit small but looks like the yellow king annona from Taiwan.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on April 23, 2020, 12:53:55 PM
Quote from: shot on April 22, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
My tree is changing leaves now,have to wait for photo.Not uncommon to show both forms of leaves on this tree,correlation to nitrogen levels and vigor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRk0vnMP/giant-sugar-apple.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
What is this?
sugarlata ,bred 1993

That looks delicious
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 26, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
A look at leaves from custard apple hybrid
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnqnX333/A4-F3-E065-0590-4-C46-97-F3-9-D66-C6-C34-EB3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnqnX333)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 26, 2020, 03:49:55 PM
Quote from: shot on April 22, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
My tree is changing leaves now,have to wait for photo.Not uncommon to show both forms of leaves on this tree,correlation to nitrogen levels and vigor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRk0vnMP/giant-sugar-apple.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
What is this?
sugarlata ,bred 1993

thats an saramoyo x custard apple

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmWSLx9k/IMG-7411.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmWSLx9k)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgGd3cwZ/IMG-7556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgGd3cwZ)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 26, 2020, 06:25:05 PM
Quote from: JF on April 26, 2020, 02:37:09 PM
A look at leaves from custard apple hybrid
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnqnX333/A4-F3-E065-0590-4-C46-97-F3-9-D66-C6-C34-EB3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnqnX333)

Yes has a lot of reticulata in that leaf morphology .How about the flowers?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on April 26, 2020, 06:36:35 PM
Quote from: JF on April 26, 2020, 03:49:55 PM
Quote from: shot on April 22, 2020, 08:00:12 PM
My tree is changing leaves now,have to wait for photo.Not uncommon to show both forms of leaves on this tree,correlation to nitrogen levels and vigor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRk0vnMP/giant-sugar-apple.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
What is this?
sugarlata ,bred 1993

thats an saramoyo x custard apple

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmWSLx9k/IMG-7411.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmWSLx9k)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgGd3cwZ/IMG-7556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgGd3cwZ)



Some of the seedlings of my sugarlata, saramoyo (aka) sugarlata have a look like yours.The flowers are quite different than most annona with long turn up petals,kind of wispy.
 What does your saramoyos flowers look like?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on April 28, 2020, 12:32:48 AM
here is the flowers
(https://i.postimg.cc/BttHVm5R/IMG-7567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BttHVm5R)
Sisal dorado another custard apple hybrid
(https://i.postimg.cc/1gtD1Mhg/4-E74-CDA5-9-B6-B-4062-BA44-0-BFF947-CAE25.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gtD1Mhg)


Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Oolie on April 29, 2020, 11:11:21 PM
Well, it's pushing. Just about every variety I attempted grafting this year has pushed, 15 types approximately.

All except Rudy 20.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JoeP450 on May 30, 2020, 09:38:20 PM
Wanted to post these pics to this thread as a side by side high res photos now that my cherilata has fully leafed out, cherilata leaf and also a “fernandez” reticulata leaf. Think this is a cross between cherimoya and reticulata based on what painter reports but maybe got more of the cherimoya genes that code for leaf phenotype, vs the hybrid that JF is describing in Yucatan? I see the cherimoya in the leaf shape  🤷‍♂️.

Cherilata Leaves
(https://i.postimg.cc/FYRX0CkV/2-BB14-C08-E9-C0-487-B-A13-F-FFDB62232-D49.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYRX0CkV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t1n0M151/AE51-E1-BD-96-C3-4-B38-9841-9341-A8-CC909-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1n0M151)

(https://i.postimg.cc/phNNb2Gs/C7447-A6-C-228-D-497-B-AF7-C-2-B1868-CE70-BA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phNNb2Gs)

Reticulata

(https://i.postimg.cc/0Md9VMkY/20-C624-F4-A438-40-E2-929-C-E16-D410062-B0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0Md9VMkY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5Q4bT4yZ/8-A1-B7683-2-A45-4-A4-F-86-D7-D57-E606-B6252.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Q4bT4yZ)

-joe
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Guanabanus on May 30, 2020, 09:58:10 PM
Saramoyos from Yucatan do not contain cherimoya (Annona cherimola).  They do appear to be naturally occurring hybrids of Annona squamosa and Annona reticulata.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Berto on May 30, 2020, 10:30:07 PM
Quote from: shot on April 18, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Guanabanus

Just some random seeding from california that would make fruit here around up to tennis ball size.That tree did fade away.

John,
I still have that cherimoya. I was able to graft it onto a branch of an atemoya seedling. That branch is growing quite well and has flowered. So, we have not lost “Spain” cherimoya yet. 😉
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Vincent on May 31, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Have a grafted 3gal cherilata that is grafted on pond apple. It isn't for sale but is for trade. Looking for white ilama, grafted, or air layered. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Guanabanus on May 31, 2020, 12:28:18 PM
Annona cherimola 'Spain', from California was one of four useful cherimoya varieties that I bred with in the late 80's.  The others were Chaffey and Libby and Orton.

I didn't have Selma (which already has some pink in the skin), or El Bumpo, or Fino-de-Jete, or many others that I have eaten or heard good things about in the years since.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on August 14, 2020, 01:58:57 PM
I just want to post a quick update on my John Painter Cherilata since several members asked about it. These are very young grafts from this year and the size of the leaves is very dependent on the vigor of the rootstock.

Here are a few pictures of the leaves. The smaller leaves are from a low vigor rootstock and look more narrow. The larger leaves are grafts onto a vigorous rootstock.
 
(https://i.postimg.cc/4YJ5PmSR/06519889-4-B12-4710-ADFE-77-FA0-E3-BC151.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4YJ5PmSR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ppk82kq3/8-CFB7-CA4-A4-C7-4-C88-9-B24-CC8937604539.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppk82kq3)
Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on August 14, 2020, 02:03:30 PM
The leaves are the same shape but the larger leaves are obviously much larger. Here is a picture of the flower.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZCZSkQDQ/7-EF5662-C-9-A3-D-43-B8-9441-B80-E7006148-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCZSkQDQ)

And a fruit pollinated with mixed cherimoya pollen
(https://i.postimg.cc/066gd1bz/4-FCC6-F8-A-80-CB-4-F83-8-A49-3003-BE95-F0-A1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/066gd1bz)

Here is a John Painter red Cherilata flower/fruit that was pollinated with Dr. White Pollen
(https://i.postimg.cc/D8ZKyGnQ/A37-C26-F1-6946-4-E44-993-E-2329-E4090218.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8ZKyGnQ)
Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: dwfl on August 14, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Nice Simon! Good luck
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JF on August 14, 2020, 07:25:55 PM
Great update Simon. Look at my Cherilata leave are almost identical

(https://i.postimg.cc/z3SX2M02/906363-AC-5-AB8-49-DF-9-E86-AD4-F14-D05367.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3SX2M02)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Mv9ZqBky/942-C673-E-94-C3-4-A82-83-B5-BE1577299771.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mv9ZqBky)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Garden_Harley_FL on September 28, 2020, 09:02:03 AM
I wanted to give an update on my Cherilata
(https://i.postimg.cc/hzZJnjx0/1322220-D-D81-A-4295-860-E-C4-EAB2-FE779-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzZJnjx0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vcJVDcKq/1-DE17018-F3-D5-4-EF2-A216-561-AD421-EEAA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcJVDcKq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DS1bG7k2/66802-AC3-CB21-49-DA-8628-A45949-D1211-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DS1bG7k2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G8mB6YB2/73-A75483-8856-4307-B7-F1-D0-E508-CFB2-F4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8mB6YB2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4kLfTMQ/C14-F942-B-3117-4664-BB1-E-10-E5-A7-AB69-C5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4kLfTMQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8gLhNnk/E8-F849-C0-560-B-4-FD7-9-FA5-C25562-E2-E3-FB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8gLhNnk)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: johnb51 on September 28, 2020, 09:15:45 AM
Your tree grew a lot, Harley!
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Mike T on September 28, 2020, 09:27:06 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/9RsLMWHG/scarlet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9RsLMWHG)
Cross that with this and we could be getting some eye popping fruit.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Mike T on September 28, 2020, 09:44:54 AM
https://www.horticulture.com.au/globalassets/laserfiche/assets/project-reports/cu11000/cu11000-final-report-complete-2.pdf (https://www.horticulture.com.au/globalassets/laserfiche/assets/project-reports/cu11000/cu11000-final-report-complete-2.pdf)
In the breeding for new reds such as the pictured MRS 649-1 at Marroochy, PP atemoya was crossed with a red sugar apple/atemoya hybrid rather than red reticulatas on the grounds of taste. The breeding of new Annonas is quite advanced at this research station and have a look at the attached report. No cherilatas were bred at all as there was a strong commercial focus. Still they won't release all the new types.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Tropical Bay Area on December 10, 2020, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: Guanabanus on April 17, 2020, 08:58:03 PM
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
har what are alll the annona hybrids to your knowledge?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: ben mango on January 01, 2021, 02:06:51 PM
those fruits look better than what i had the other day
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Bush2Beach on January 01, 2021, 05:34:21 PM
I bet Har has stated multiple times. Forum search dat.
Quote from: Tropical Bay Area on December 10, 2020, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: Guanabanus on April 17, 2020, 08:58:03 PM
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
har what are alll the annona hybrids to your knowledge?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Tropical Bay Area on January 02, 2021, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: Bush2Beach on January 01, 2021, 05:34:21 PM
I bet Har has stated multiple times. Forum search dat.
Quote from: Tropical Bay Area on December 10, 2020, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: Guanabanus on April 17, 2020, 08:58:03 PM
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
har what are alll the annona hybrids to your knowledge?
Sorry I can’t find anything....
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JoeP450 on January 14, 2021, 06:33:04 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/CB0QWc4R/08-AD02-E4-4-B5-D-4-A58-88-C3-22-BE447-C05-CA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CB0QWc4R)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZW1gLbBF/14-DFF14-F-466-A-482-A-8-C61-83-EA616-D6-DBA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZW1gLbBF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JyZF6fjw/7-FFE509-E-0-A7-A-4058-8-DDB-9183627-AD86-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyZF6fjw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yk8w1rC9/8956-B121-6-BC2-4258-96-E6-38671967-B719.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yk8w1rC9)

Picked my first and only cherilata this year today, ripe off the tree, stem pulled right out. I haven’t had ever single atemoya, custard apple, cherimoya, or sugar apple, but of the ones I’ve eaten this is top notch. Seedy is the one draw back, but texture is firm to chewy, low grit, flavor has some tart and phenolic resin note, while mostly berry upfront. The flesh color beautiful. Seems since this is a reticulata x cherimoya a more apt name might be “berries n cream” vs cherilata .....but that’s up to the breeder...,,my hats off to your mr painter.


-joe
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: shot on January 14, 2021, 07:21:24 PM
Looks tasty!Usually low seed count did you hand pollinate?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: kh0110 on January 14, 2021, 07:54:23 PM
Looks delicious. From the cut up pix, seeds count looks Ok to me even with this small specimen. For me, it's the seed to flesh ratio that counts not the seeds count by itsef.
Also, cherilata is a type, not a name.

Congrats!!!

Note: Maybe the breeder, Shot, should now give it a name?
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: JoeP450 on January 14, 2021, 08:53:24 PM
Yes I did hand pollinate, I’m not sure which pollen actually hit though because it was whatever I had at the time between sugar apple, Fernandez reticulata, dream atemoya, or it’s own from other flowers on the tree. It’s still a young lanky tree so just getting the one fruit I am very happy to try looking forward to a hard pruning before spring to get some lateral branching going. I’m glad to have two trees in ground now, more flowers, more pollen to play around with crossing things this year. 

One thing I want to expound upon, is the “phenolic” flavor that the reticulata parent imparts. I first read about this from reading the Australian custard apple breeding report. It is generally that flavor that you can’t totally put your finger on but is present in reticulatas, and it’s mostly not good. I attached a screen shot below on this distinction. In the case of the cherilata it is like a how “resin” profile is to a mango. In some mangos you have this flavor almost like gasoline you get in a super julie or o-15, even super Alphonso that by itself would be nasty but when mixed in with sweet and some tartness it creates a pleasantly complex eating experience. Like tannin is to wine. In the cherilata I got that same experience.

I’m really excited because I’ve been collecting and planting a good amount of annonas last year in hopes that this season I’ll be able to run some interesting controlled crosses and this cherilata, has opened up new genetic avenues of flavor potential.


(https://i.postimg.cc/3krPt8ZP/48-E10-A25-8-FE8-4-E71-AD31-3-BF8-B06-D8-F78.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3krPt8ZP)

-Joe
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Annona Breeding Project on January 14, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2JyGW9D/55-A0-BF64-44-AA-4836-A70-E-B637-CCABC725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2JyGW9D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMssLFSB/E64-A59-FF-1-A77-4150-95-CB-AC81-A7-C596-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMssLFSB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJzKZM66/IMG-1642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJzKZM66)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mcSvFh6V/IMG-2448.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcSvFh6V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FY4CgNS6/IMG-3027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY4CgNS6)

We are proud to call John our mentor and our close friend. Through breeding this fruit and developing his experimental grove he has inspired a new generation of fruit breeders. Josh Starry is correct in saying that this cultivar will spread far and wide. It already has spread across the USA thanks to John's generosity. It truly is a world class fruit created by a world class human being. As our propagation side of the organization rolls out these trees, we're calling it 'Painter.'
Be fruitful always,
the Annona Breeding team
@annonabreedingproject
annonabreedingproject.com
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Galatians522 on January 14, 2021, 10:34:10 PM
Quote from: Annona Breeding Project on January 14, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2JyGW9D/55-A0-BF64-44-AA-4836-A70-E-B637-CCABC725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2JyGW9D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMssLFSB/E64-A59-FF-1-A77-4150-95-CB-AC81-A7-C596-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMssLFSB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJzKZM66/IMG-1642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJzKZM66)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mcSvFh6V/IMG-2448.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcSvFh6V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FY4CgNS6/IMG-3027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY4CgNS6)

We are proud to call John our mentor and our close friend. Through breeding this fruit and developing his experimental grove he has inspired a new generation of fruit breeders. Josh Starry is correct in saying that this cultivar will spread far and wide. It already has spread across the USA thanks to John's generosity. It truly is a world class fruit created by a world class human being. As our propagation side of the organization rolls out these trees, we're calling it 'Painter.'
Be fruitful always,
the Annona Breeding team
@annonabreedingproject
annonabreedingproject.com

I had to do a double take when I looked at the pictures and realized that the trees were growing with their roots entirely submerged. They are obviously on pond apple rootstock. I will be very interested to hear if they have long term compatibility.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Orkine on January 15, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
I have one on a pond apple and it seems to do well on that root stock.  It is early yet, I only grafted it last year. 

The interesting thing is it has kept all its leaves so far.  Most other anonas in my yard are fully defoliated or hanging on to a couple of sorry looking leaves. 

It has been harsh fall and winter with may of what looked like successful atemoya grafts through most of last year, looking like dry twigs with not a leaf left on them.  I hope they come back next spring but it doubt it.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Galatians522 on January 15, 2021, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: Orkine on January 15, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
I have one on a pond apple and it seems to do well on that root stock.  It is early yet, I only grafted it last year. 

The interesting thing is it has kept all its leaves so far.  Most other anonas in my yard are fully defoliated or hanging on to a couple of sorry looking leaves. 

It has been harsh fall and winter with may of what looked like successful atemoya grafts through most of last year, looking like dry twigs with not a leaf left on them.  I hope they come back next spring but it doubt it.

Thanks, that is really good to know. The info I got from Australia seems to indicate that incompatibility starts to show up after 4-5 years with Cherymoya. Maybe this will be a better match.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on January 22, 2021, 12:29:45 PM
Quote from: Annona Breeding Project on January 14, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2JyGW9D/55-A0-BF64-44-AA-4836-A70-E-B637-CCABC725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2JyGW9D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMssLFSB/E64-A59-FF-1-A77-4150-95-CB-AC81-A7-C596-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMssLFSB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJzKZM66/IMG-1642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJzKZM66)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mcSvFh6V/IMG-2448.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcSvFh6V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FY4CgNS6/IMG-3027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY4CgNS6)

We are proud to call John our mentor and our close friend. Through breeding this fruit and developing his experimental grove he has inspired a new generation of fruit breeders. Josh Starry is correct in saying that this cultivar will spread far and wide. It already has spread across the USA thanks to John's generosity. It truly is a world class fruit created by a world class human being. As our propagation side of the organization rolls out these trees, we're calling it 'Painter.'
Be fruitful always,
the Annona Breeding team
@annonabreedingproject
annonabreedingproject.com

Yes, John has been very generous in spreading his selection around. For those of you in SoCal, I have been been calling it John Painters Red Cherilata.

Annona Breeding Project, I would love to see a thread in regards to what you are working on!

Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on January 22, 2021, 12:36:48 PM
Anyone else in SoCal having luck with their John Painters Red Cherilata? I grafted the scions 10 months ago and they have grown 3-4 feet but most the fruit dropped off, not surprising for a new graft. I only have one very small fruit left hanging. This fruit is about ping pong ball sized and was pollinated with Dr White Cherimoya pollen.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZW01xfzG/242-D100-D-B30-D-4-FD1-A9-AD-33-B284-CFF5-D5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZW01xfzG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNCrNSsV/BA090-BCF-48-E5-4-ED4-9-A78-48-D8-BCDAD6-F1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNCrNSsV)
Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: ryanscion on January 22, 2021, 03:23:34 PM
Quote from: simon_grow on January 22, 2021, 12:36:48 PM
Anyone else in SoCal having luck with their John Painters Red Cherilata? I grafted the scions 10 months ago and they have grown 3-4 feet but most the fruit dropped off, not surprising for a new graft. I only have one very small fruit left hanging. This fruit is about ping pong ball sized and was pollinated with Dr White Cherimoya pollen.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZW01xfzG/242-D100-D-B30-D-4-FD1-A9-AD-33-B284-CFF5-D5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZW01xfzG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNCrNSsV/BA090-BCF-48-E5-4-ED4-9-A78-48-D8-BCDAD6-F1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNCrNSsV)
Simon

Hi Simon, can you share more about your rootstock selections for the JP Red Cherilata? Above you mentioned less and more vigorous rootstocks and I'm curious to read if you grafted onto only cherimoyas or if you used other annonas as well.

Also, I'd love some scions if they're available for trade or purchase later this year. I'm in San Diego also (National City).

Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: simon_grow on January 22, 2021, 06:57:01 PM
Ryanscion, Brad may have some scions available but you’ll have to check with him. He grafted a few trees to JP Red Cherilata at his orchard last year.

The growth is great on vigorous Cherimoya rootstock such as Dr White and Pierce. I specifically mention vigorous rootstock because seeds from a particular variety may grow differently.

For example, I have Pierce fruit that were extremely over pollinated so the fruit had tons of smaller seeds in the flesh and these seeds all sprouted fine but seemed to grow less vigorously compared to larger seeds from Pierce fruit that weren’t over pollinated.

Also, seeds from a particular fruit, let’s say add White for example, are sexually produced so seeds from the same fruit may grow at different rates.

I would recommend you plant a bunch of different seeds and just use the most vigorous seedlings for rootstocks.

Simon
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: ben mango on January 25, 2021, 09:45:44 PM
This is the one I’m finding on Maui that I suspect is a cherilata.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jzhjY3s/4026-B7-D8-DE4-B-4-AFA-93-CE-29507-A965-B93.jpg)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Tropical Bay Area on January 26, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Quote from: ben mango on January 25, 2021, 09:45:44 PM
This is the one I’m finding on Maui that I suspect is a cherilata.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jzhjY3s/4026-B7-D8-DE4-B-4-AFA-93-CE-29507-A965-B93.jpg)
To me, it looks like either a redder Lisa atemoya or a cherilata.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: palmtreeluke on October 08, 2021, 10:23:40 PM
Just picked my very own Painter Cherilata. Beautiful tree and leaves.  Grafts well on pond apple.

First ‘Painter’ cherilata fruit. A ‘spain’ cherimoya crossed with a ‘Tikal’ reticulata custard apple I believe.
color is very good, sweet and firm flesh,  moist with strong strawberry(raspberry?) cream flavor. No perfume smell like pure reticulata fruits.  Does have some grainy sugar crystal texture in the dark pink near the skin like reticulata. One fruit was not enough -it leaves you wanting more!
This variety requires no hand pollination.  It precocious and makes many fruits. I have had to thin 15 or so fruits on a 2 year old tree.
Overall a top tier annona fruit and cant wait for the next one to ripen. Thanks John for creating this wonderful variety.

(https://i.ibb.co/25GLY4p/3-F9-AED1-C-DE3-F-4906-925-D-B4-F979-B1-C157.jpg) (https://ibb.co/25GLY4p)

(https://i.ibb.co/BfK5D4d/6-A0-AE82-A-F9-EC-4681-8891-5-F14-D83-ACA8-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfK5D4d)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: BestDay on October 10, 2021, 11:39:45 AM
That sure does look like a great fruit. I’m glad people are experimenting with these crosses. Who know’s what is possible?

Bill
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: spaugh on March 01, 2022, 10:39:52 PM
I tried this fruit for the first time.  It has a unique taste.  Maybe citrus or berry flavor.  It isnt much like cherimoya.  Taste is different, flesh is more firm and very slightly grainy.  Didnt test it but brix was pretty liw, maybe 15 or 16.  Brix may improve, this was just the 1st fruit off a grafted branch. I like it over atemoya but not as much as plain cherimoya. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/GHp5g5V6/20220301-191435.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHp5g5V6)

It looked nice and bright purple when it was first picked then got dull after softening up and going in the fridge. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/gXYDXwP1/20220301-191412.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gXYDXwP1)
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: FruitFool on March 01, 2022, 11:07:23 PM
Any grits like reticulata, Brad?

Fruitfool
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: spaugh on March 01, 2022, 11:33:39 PM
yeah it has a very slight grainy texture but not much.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jeramyl SoCal on March 02, 2022, 12:35:49 PM
Quote from: spaugh on March 01, 2022, 11:33:39 PM
yeah it has a very slight grainy texture but not much.
Brad.  I am right here in San Diego County with you.  I have a reasonably well established cherimoya tree in the yard already and would be interesting to graft the JP Cherilata onto it.  Any chance you have scions?  I may have to wait a bit as my cherimoya still has 90% of last years leaves and has not started on this new growth this year but would be a fun project.  No pressure but fingers crossed that you do.  Happy to purchase or even trade for some Spiral Aloe seeds. Not a fruit but really cool plant.  Cheers, JL
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: spaugh on March 02, 2022, 07:17:44 PM
I dont have any scions for another year or 2.  I had 1 branch grafted that made the fruit then used it to make a new tree then the original branch died back after I cut the fruit.  So the new tree is still a baby.  Sorry, I would share otherwise. 
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Jeramyl So CA on March 02, 2022, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: spaugh on March 02, 2022, 07:17:44 PM
I dont have any scions for another year or 2.  I had 1 branch grafted that made the fruit then used it to make a new tree then the original branch died back after I cut the fruit.  So the new tree is still a baby.  Sorry, I would share otherwise.

Not to worry!  It was worth a try.  This looks like an interesting new fruit for sure. I will keep looking!
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: dwfl on March 18, 2022, 05:36:23 PM
Time will tell but am hearing reports that pond apple as the rootstock for cherilata isn't as good as reticulata rootstock. Flavor and coloring have been affected negatively compared to when grafted onto reticulata.
Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Orkine on March 18, 2022, 05:43:53 PM
Interesting.
Mine are on pond apple and they look great.
The fruit also looks well colored though I have no reference point having only seen the fruit from the pond apple grafted plant.
Perhaps I need to put a branch or two on reticulata so I can make a comparison in the future. Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: Cherilata taste test.
Post by: Seanny on June 17, 2022, 05:34:08 AM
Quote from: spaugh on March 02, 2022, 07:17:44 PM
I had 1 branch grafted that made the fruit then used it to make a new tree then the original branch died back after I cut the fruit.

Same thing happened to my 48-17 graft.
Could it be graft incompatibility of reticulata crosses?