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Messages - Miguel.pt

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376
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Hi! From Portugal with Love!!!
« on: July 21, 2013, 03:42:17 AM »
Olá Luis e bem vindo.

Em que zona de Fátima estás?... que clima tens?... em Fátima deves ter solo e água alcalina pelo que deves levar isso em conta...

Fátima é zona de milagres... mas não me parece que criar mangas e litchies na rua seja um deles... é melhor que penses em proteger bem isso no próximo inverno... ou tens estufa?

Um abraço desde a zona de Aveiro.
Miguel.pt

377

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Hey Miguel , those Blacks were they also fast fruiting ? If you say they are excellent and if you have a few seeds left keep me in mind .
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Hello Luc

Sorry but it's too late this year... but don't worry because I'll remember you next year...only problem with this one is that it is a very light bearer... just 5 or 6 fruits for season for now... maybe it's still too young... that's also why I'm trying to have more plants around for me...

As far as I remember this one was as fast to fruit as all others E. pitanga... I believe it flowered first time on year 2 and fruited on year 3...

378
Thank you all... I'll report back results latter...

379
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia neonitida
« on: July 20, 2013, 02:00:02 PM »
we gotta have a contest each year to see who can produce largest pitangatuba!

I'm joining to this contest too... collected these yesterday and one of the fruits was enormous (+/- 8 cm long)... probably the biggest one I had so far.



Who can compete with that?

380
Hello all,

last year my A. tomentosa gave me just one single flower which did not set fruit...
This years it has several flowers and I would like to try to hand-pollinate to increase my chances... but these flowers are a lot different from normal A. cherimoya flowers and I've read about it being pollinated by some special beetles...
Questions are:
Anybody knows how these type of annona flowers should be hand-pollinated?
Should I consider the same 3 basic steps as on A. cherimoya flowers (collect polen during male stage, keep it overnight on the frige door and pollinate female parts following day)?
Do these flowers have the same separate male and female stages like other annonas do?
 
Please help!...flowers should open anytime soon so I don't have much time to decide what to do... thanks!






381
I second Luc's opinion that your plant (minute 2) is not E. pitanga... and it looks just another E. uniflora to me...

The description from Soren is correct and the Luc photo demonstrates very well the general habit/aspect of the E.pitanga bushes... but let me just add something more:

I note that there are also a lot of variation on fruits of E.pitanga and there are round ones but also very ribbed ones... in fact I have one plant of E. pitanga that gives me black ribbed fruits that are the top quality taste pitangas that I have here, and I have a lot of them... if left to ripen properly they became very dark (it's the black pitanga on the 2º pic)... the curious thing is that all my E. pitanga bushes came from one single batch of seeds received from Brasil maybe on 2007... I'm now trying to reproduce this one to see if next generation maintains this good fruits...




best regards
Miguel.pt

382
Ola Miguel,
Bem vindo!
Parabens pela sua belissima colecao de frutiferas!
A patroa e da "Terrinha" e de vez em quando, visitamos a familia dela na Covilha, e os amigos em Lisboa.
Um forte abraco diretamente do sul da Florida.
Eu tenho uma pequena colecao de frutiferas.  Eu vou mandar uma mensagem para voce atraves do forum.
Oxala, nos possamos trocar ideias e informacoes.  Muito obrigado

Olá Berto,

Será um prazer trocar ideias contigo... eu respondi por Email ainda antes de ver esta mensagem no forum... estamos em contacto.

um abraço
Miguel

383
Can you explain how you hand pollinate them? Is it just a stick a brush in and twizzle or is ther more to it? I mostly hand pollinate annona, so am interested in hand pollinating my myrtaceae so I get better fruit set this coming spring/summer.

When I say "hand pollinate" I really mean "hand pollinate"... nothing scientific involving brushes or other paraphernalia.... I just collect pollen on my finger tips and rub it on flower stigmas... nothing else more than this... but it seems to have worked for me.

384
Hello Adam.

Flavor is very, very good... to me is similar or even better than a good Cherry of Rio Grande.

I'm not an expert on botanic but I tend to see the Eugenia calycina as the Eugenia involucrata natural adaption to the "cerrado" conditions... like Eugenia pitanga is the "cerrado" adaptation of the Eugenia uniflora... and Eugenia anomala is the "cerrado" adaptation of the Ubajai-Eugenia myrcianthes.... Cerrado adapted plants seem to grow more underground and less up-ground, having big and fat roots to storage nutrients and water... same thing for the Annona tomentosa or Annona dioica...

Anyone knows something else more about this subject?

I'm betting on this family relations between calycina and involucrata to try graft them on one another soon... just don't have proper involucrata root-stocks yet...


385
Hello all

This year I was I little bit worried with the lack of bees inside my GH and having many pendent requests on Eugenia calycina seeds I spent some time pollinating the flowers by hand...
Don't know if this was the reason or what but as a result I got some really big fruits this year... one of these monsters had 7 seeds inside and there was a lot more with 4 or 5 seeds... last year most of the fruits had just one or two seeds...

Took some pics on some of these "monsters"...here they are:














386
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: psidium eugeniaefolia
« on: June 27, 2013, 03:49:42 PM »
Hello all,

Let me give you my opinion also... sorry if I'm going to disappoint or destroy expectations on some of you guys...

I've had both Psidium eugenifolia and Psidium myrtoides here on my mirtaceae collection... both grew from seeds received from Helton maybe on 2007 and they both fruited the last 2 years...

I'm sorry to report that these 2 species are the only mirtaceae species that I voluntarily eliminated from my collection...  to me they don't deserve the water they were drinking and less the space they were occupying on my GH... these things have a terrible sour+astringent taste... but I agree that both fruits are beautiful...

I think I've given some seedlings of these to Sérgio also... maybe that's one of the trees he is talking about...

But then again taste is always a personal thing... if you go to Helton web page and you assist one of those Brazilian TV reports about his place, on one of these films Helton appears eating one of this P.eugenifolia with great pleasure and trying to convince the female reporter that they were good... I think that at the end they both try it with miracle fruit if my memory is not playing tricks on me...

387
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Annona dioica
« on: June 18, 2013, 05:15:47 PM »
Hello Adam,

Don't want to disappoint you but I think that can probably be already done because this past April I've send scions of mine to a friend at Málaga/Spain who is a master grafter... he signed in here at the forum some days ago with the nickname "Tropimalaga"... maybe he can inlight us on his experience and results:

Tropimalaga are you there?... are you following this discussion?... did you manage to successfully graft the scions of A. tomentosa that I send you before?....which root-stocks did you use?... do you have any results already or is it still to soon to tell?

Unfortunately my grafting skills are on it's infancy but I will try it ASAP...

But Adam your experiences, comments and results on these graft attempts are always welcome. Go for it and good luck!

388
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Annona dioica
« on: June 17, 2013, 04:46:44 PM »
The fruit is said to be very large--- often resting on the ground--- and excellent quality.  Subtropical scrubland habitat.

This is the first I've heard of synonymy with A. tomentosa.

Officially tomentosa and dioica are 2 different species, not synonyms. Either Helton is mistaken or he knows something we don't?

Hello Oscar

I went to see exactly what Helton wrote on his book about this subject...

The exact words of Helton were : "Eu considero essa espécie uma sinonimia de Annona dioica"...  so in English: " I consider this species a synonymy of Annona dioica"

In the book text context Helton puts this observation not as anything truly scientific but just as his personal opinion... and then he justifies his opinion saying that when the botanist "August de Saint-Hilaire" classified this species as "Annona dioica" back in 1820 he just did that because he found plants with fruits and other with none on the same season, so he considered that there should be separate male and female plants... just to clarify, in Portuguese "dioica" means "dioecious"...

Helton later justifies this differences in fruiting by the presence or absence of a particular species of beetle bugs (besouros escarabideos) responsible for the polinization of the flowers...

So apparently there's no scientific background on this observation of Helton... but I also think he his right!... but of course I accept other opinions on this subject...


Just two final thoughts on this subject to all others following this:

1) Being a bushy annona it would be interesting to see if this is one is graft compatible with cherimoya or other more tree like root-stock and see the habit/aspect of the resulting grated tree... probably Adam is the correct person to in-light us all on this...

2) how about if we start a race/contest to see who's the first one to fruit this one outside Brazil?... I seem to have some years ahead of advantage but I also  have the latitude handicap on my side...



 

389
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Annona dioica
« on: June 16, 2013, 03:41:42 PM »
Hello Adam

I believe this is the one that Helton calls Annona tomentosa- "Araticum de moita".

If you search on Helton web page you can see a picture of the fruit, and on his book "Colecionando frutas Vol.1" Helton talks about this species and even says there that the name Annona dioica is a synonymy for this species.

I also have one on my GH planted on the ground... this one is a bushy annona, not a tree... mine has 5 or 6 years now and no more than 1,5 meters... it flowered last year for the first time but no fruit yet... just one flower though... this year I don't see any flowers yet...


     

390
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2812.0

Miguel...nice looking fruits...they sure look large, but I'm not certain if they're giant.

There's some photos of the giant form in this thread above.  The leaves seem much larger on the giant form...with more prominent punctate glands on the undersides of the leaves (more visible small dots)

Thanks Adam!

But now I just have to have one of the giants!... this species does seem to feel at home here... it seems to even like the cold we have!

I'll start looking at the leaves of different plants to see if I can detect some differences and properly identify one of the giants.

Funny thing about my tree is that last year fruits were almost all seedless and smaller fruits... but the final fruit of last year season was seeded and it was much bigger than those on the anterior photo... maybe the fruit was just a freak or the plant just putted all the energy on that single seed/fruit and that made it grow much more (?)... I don't have pics of that last year fruit but as far as I remember it was even bigger than the "ben's beaut" fruits pictured on the attached post... 

But this year there are no seedless fruits and all fruits have one or two seeds... but none seems to grow to the final huge proportions of that last year single fruit I remember... that's why I'm confused...

Also all my fruits have a "pear shape" form... I've never seen "Cherry Rio Grande" elongated fruits like those pictured on Lorenzi's blue book representing the giant form... more confusion...

391
Hello all.

My Eug.involucrata is fruiting right now and I have one single tree fruiting so no others to compare...

My questions are:
Do you think I have here the normal version of the Cherry Rio Grande or could this be the giant form?... can someone post pics of fruits of the giant form to compare with mine?





Anyway if someone has seeds of the giant form available for trade I would like to try it.
Do you know if they came true from seed?

No doubt I am very happy with my tree and fruits... just curious if there can be even better ones.

thanks in advance
Miguel

392
Hello Pancrazio

My fruits were from a grafted Osteen I think... but the following winter all the grafted part of the tree died from cold even inside the GH... now I'm trying again with the cultivar Carabao because I found a brazilian study report on internet were they concluded that Carabao was the most resistant of all to low temperatures....

Just google for "MANGO ROOTSTOCK RESISTANCE TO LOW TEMPERATURES" and you will find this brazilian report.

all the best for you and your mango tree.
Miguel

393
Yes, I agree... a photo of the fruit will help a lot!

394
buonasera Pancrazio,

just want to congratulate you on your efforts to fruit a mango on Europe and on an even higher latitude than me here in Portugal... there seems to be more fruit-nuts trying this on USA than here on Europe... so we Europeans should get united.

Just want to report that my experience is not very positive so far... I did managed to have fruits on a mango planted on my GH but they were very deformed... maybe it's a secondary cold effect... but fortunately the taste was not affected and as I don't intend to sell the fruits so it was no big issue at the end... just keep trying!








395
Hello again.

As promised here are the photos and comments on my second fruit of Ubajai… this fruit was left to fully ripen on the tree and the purpose was to check the “strange and repulsive odor”, that some reported on the overripe fruits of this species.

This fruit fell of the tree by itself, so no doubt it was properly ripe and was even a little bit bruised, probably from the fall…

And I’m glad to report that I enjoy the smell of it too!
The smell was not very intense, nothing like guavas that can fill an entire room with the scent… this one you have to take it close to your nose to properly feel it… I agree that we can call it a “strange” smell because there is nothing like it, but I will never consider it repulsive… in fact I returned home sniffing on the fruit all the way back... it has an addictive smell!

Here are the photos of this “big boy”:







This one had 3 seeds, and in fact there is a space between seeds and flesh but mine seem to have a whitish spongy / fibry material around the seeds that occupies most of this hollow space… the flesh is more than 1cm thick, "canary yellow" and extremely juicy… and the seeds seem to have a thick/hard woody coat as Luc reported earlier... to me they resembled the seeds of some palms... this woody coat doesn't seem very common on myrtaceae seeds (?) but I didn't scarify or did any other pre-treatment to the seeds received from Brazil and 100% sprouted as far as I can remember...



After all this photo-shooting the fruit was divided and kindly offered to the public at home... and the results are:



Me and my younger boy (08 years old) appreciated it... my son specially appreciated the juice and he sucked all of it from the flesh leaving only the fibers..
My wife and my older son (12 yo) didn't liked it... the general opinion was "too sour"... but both recognized that the smell was good!
 
So it's clear this fruit will not please everybody's tastes... but all in all I still see more "pros" than "cons"!...
and I can see some great things coming out of here on the future with just a little bit of added sugar (juices, smoothies, etc)... hopefully this experience will continue next years!
 
But my big doubt remains:
Are all Ubajai fruits like this?... can someone give other opinions?... Luc, can you post photos of your ripe fruits cut in half just to compare with mine?
 
I went to look again to the photos on Lorenzi's book and no doubt there are many differences... Were the Lorenzi's fruits just smaller and under-ripe and can that explain all the differences?... questions remain!

396
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Introduce Yourself
« on: June 07, 2013, 05:48:59 PM »
Hi, has long wanted to participate in this great forum and meeting point for lovers of tropical fruits.
I hope to help in any way possible and learn from the great masters who appear here. I'll put my list of varieties and tropical species now I have on my farm. I own the web www.frutalestropicales.com, and prefer more sharing than selling. My English language is not very good, but hopefully enough to defend myself. Greetings and a big hug to everyone.

Grafting zone for tropical fruit trees

Holla Tropimalaga y bienvenido!

me he conectado solo para darte la bienvenida al forum... y me ha gustado de ver el bierzo de mis más recientes annonas,atemoyas y lo demás...

Como va la Pindaíba (Duguetia lanceolata)?...te parece gustar de Málaga?

Un abrazo desde Portugal
Miguel

Mod Edit: Google Translate below:

Tropimalaga Hello and welcome!

I have connected only to welcome you to the forum ... and I liked to see the birthplace of my most recent annonas, atemoyas and others ...

How's the Pindaíba (Duguetia lanceolata)? ...Do you think it enjoys Malaga?

A hug from Portugal

397
I do not know if there are two varieties of Ubajay or two species, but in Uruguay they didnt went into production yet because they are selecting the best.

I found the first photo of my ubajay: 26 feb 2013

It came from Misiones after 8 days in total darkness due to a problem with transportation, then lost almost all leaves, perhaps because it is not perennial? That leaves look better:




Now your leaves look much more slender and greener... even more than mine!... maybe your fruit will be better also!... there's hope!

398
hello huertas...

is difficult to say without other to compare but I would say that it resembles the grey/blueish one... in general shape and color also... the slender ones are also greener and yours seem a more pallid green...
Don't know if you have the Lorenzi's blue book but the pictures on Lorenzi's book seem the blueish type to me... but the leaves on the Uruguayan article seem more greener and slender like mine... and in fact my fruits seem also closer to those from Uruguay then to those from Lorenzi's book... maybe there are two races of Ubajai?

399
Hello again

Sorry for my late replies but it's not easy to keep an ongoing conversation with some 5 or more hours of "jet lag" between Portugal and the rest of you guys. Here are the answers to your questions:

To ScottR:
All my plants of Ubajai are from the same seed batch received from Helton on October 2007, so they have 5 years by now... just one of them flowered and fruited for the first time now... just two fruits tough... the one on the previous photos and an even bigger one that is still on the tree and that should ripen during next days...

to Luc:
My seeds were not loose...I think you still can see some fibers attached to the seed on the photo... I will try to take a photo of the inside of the other fruit when it ripens...if the birds don't get there first!... I'm letting it overripe to see if I can sense some strange odor (like the one reported on the Uruguayan article) because I didn't noted nothing wrong with the odor of my first fruit.

I took a photo of the leaves to show you the differences; the 2 leaves on the left are from the tree that fruited, and the one on the right is from the other Ubajai with the bluish tinged leaves (not really noticeable now but the blue tinge is very evident when the leaves are younger)


This difference on the leaves shape, color and general aspect was evident right from the beginning and in fact I always treated the tree with the slender/greener leaves better than all the others because it was prettier, and diferent... don't know if this is the reason why it fruited first... and I need now the get one of the others to fruit to see if there is some noticeable difference on the fruits also...

Regarding the taste of "garlic" on these species former classified as "Hexaclamys spp." I have one that really tastes like garlic...  seeds arrived also on the same package and if fruited last year for the first time... it arrived labelled as Hexaclamys tomentosa, and now I believe Helton calls it Eugenia anomala... this one is pure "garlic"!... last year photos next:




The fruit shape and color is very similar to the ones of the Ubajai that fruited this year, but on this Hexaclamys tomentosa the leaves are much more slender and the tree habit is more "Bushy"... Is it possible that I have an hybrid between these two Hexaclamys spp. ???

400
Hello all

My "Ubajai" is fruiting for the first time now and I finally tasted my first fruit... and I liked it a lot!...

I had many doubts about this one because I've read several descriptions online stating this fruit had a flavor like a mixture of "uvaia and garlic"... others say "uvaia and onions"... even Helton on his book "Colecionando frutas-Vol.1" describes the taste as a mixture of uvaia+ pineapple+garlic... but to me it just reminded me of the Uvaia taste, although a very strong and concentrated uvaia taste (the tart/acid Uvaia, not the sweet one, which I don't have yet)...
I hope that at least those of you that have tasted uvaia could understand what I am saying here because it has a taste of it's own and I don't find it similar to any other "commercial" fruit...
Although it has a strong and different taste I do enjoyed it and I could eat some more fruits right away if they were ripe yet... so that's enough for me and definitely now this one is a "keeper" on my myrtaceae collection... and the fruits are "HUGE" for a Eugenia spp. and very beautiful too... I can see a great future on this species with just some selection, at least for the home grower because the skin is so thin that it should not travel very far...
In fact this is another fruit that I consider is not well documented (in terms of photos) on the Lorenzi's blue book... there the fruits seem white inside and seem to have a hollow space around the seed... maybe the Lorenzi's fruits were not fully ripe yet (?)... my fruits were of a most beautiful yellow color and there was no cavity around the seed which was very small in effect, so the flesh to seed ratio is also a very good characteristic on this fruit...
I have found my experience much closer to that reported on the "Spanish language" article "ubajai.pdf" and I do agree with the author when he says that is very difficult to discuss "tastes" and for sure there are people who love it and people who don't... I'm glad to be on the "loving group"!...you can find this article here: www.guayubira.org.uy/monte/Ubajai.pdf‎

Other very important thing for me on this species is that it seems hardy to at least the 9a climate (usually if it grows at Uruguay it means 9a hardy to me)...although the tree that fruited is still on my GH for now, and the trees outside have not flowered yet (all from the same batch of seeds)... in fact this tree that fruited first was kept inside the GH because from the beginning it showed some differences to all the others on the same seed batch... leaves are greener and slender, apparently less furred, while all others have "greyish/blueish" furred leaves, more like the leaves photoed on the Lorenzi's book... other difference is that all others trees born from the same seed batch exhibited a totally deciduous behavior during winter (even one inside the GH) and this one don't... so I just don't know if this is just the normal variations typical of the Eugenia family or something else... just in case I am trying to reproduce this one before testing it outside and risking to freeze it...
 
There is still another fruit on my tree, that in fact seems even bigger than this first one and it should ripe soon... I'm thinking to let this one overripe a little bit just to see if I can detect the strong odor that is often described online also...

Are there other opinions on this fruit out there?
 
Enjoy the photos!







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