Author Topic: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?  (Read 3099 times)

Vlk

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Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« on: May 06, 2021, 07:29:20 AM »
Hi there, I've heard many times that it's impossible to make avocado fruit in central Europe - the Czech Republic to be precise - (potted or in a greenhouse) and that it has something to do with pollination or duration of the sunlight or something along these lines. But nevertheless, I keep finding a lot of articles on how to make avocados fruit in my native language. And I just keep wondering why exactly is it impossible to make avocado bear fruit here, but you can for instance grow a variety of other exotic fruit trees that bear fruit without any problems (such as mangoes, sapote, papaya, etc.)? Is this true then? And if so, what exactly makes it impossible?
Durian & avocado lover

msk0072

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2021, 03:41:51 PM »
My huble opinion : during flowering there must be a combination of different factors like temperature, humidity and present of insects for pollination
Mike

barath

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2021, 10:12:29 PM »
In a greenhouse anything is possible.  Outdoors you'd have to create a really good microclimate.  There's the London avocado tree that appears to be in a good microclimate (surrounded by buildings in a courtyard) so it probably doesn't get too cold in the winter.  If you can create a good microclimate you might be able to do it -- sunlight isn't the issue for you, but winter cold weather might be.

spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2021, 12:37:15 AM »
I doubt you can grow papaya and mangos "without any problems" but can't grow avocado.  That really doesn't make sense to be honest.  Both of those are more difficult to grow than avocado in a non tropical location. 

Brad Spaugh

Tommyng

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2021, 03:48:58 AM »
Impossible? To hear that word should compel you prove otherwise.
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Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2021, 05:49:41 AM »
I doubt you can grow papaya and mangos "without any problems" but can't grow avocado.  That really doesn't make sense to be honest.  Both of those are more difficult to grow than avocado in a non tropical location.

But that is the reality. :D I know several people growing mangoes and papayas indoors in normal room conditions or in the greenhouse, but several people told me you can't make avocado bear fruit, no matter where you have it. Apparently, it was something with delicate pollination and something that has to be just right but can't be achieved in Central Europe. The avocados will flower but never bear fruit. So it's not about growing, avocado is growing just fine, it's apparently the pollination. So just wanted to ask why exactly could that be and what is the critical factor.
Durian & avocado lover

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2021, 05:53:56 AM »
Impossible? To hear that word should compel you prove otherwise.

Exactly, it intrigues me, and would love to prove otherwise. :D There are many articles that don't mention avocados can't fruit here, on the contrary, but many growers mentioned you can't. One of my friends has a tropical greenhouse and managed to grow and harvest fruit from a wide range of exotic plants, except for very delicate and highly tropical species like durians, but he said avocados just don't fruit here at least that is his experience and he is a highly experienced grower.
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Tommyng

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2021, 07:44:28 AM »
Impossible? To hear that word should compel you prove otherwise.

Exactly, it intrigues me, and would love to prove otherwise. :D There are many articles that don't mention avocados can't fruit here, on the contrary, but many growers mentioned you can't. One of my friends has a tropical greenhouse and managed to grow and harvest fruit from a wide range of exotic plants, except for very delicate and highly tropical species like durians, but he said avocados just don't fruit here at least that is his experience and he is a highly experienced grower.

As Brad said, it doesn’t make sense if you can most other tropical species to fruit except for avocado. Just make sure it’s grafted and do for it. If it can flower it can fruit, just make sure what’s the pollinators and attract them or do it manually, you only need one fruit to prove everyone wrong.
Don’t rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

johnnym33315

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2021, 09:53:05 AM »
Could it be an A/B flowering issue? I know it is not 100% necessary to have a second tree with an opposite flowering schedule, but having an "A" matched with a "B" should increase the chance of pollination, which seems to be the issue here.

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2021, 10:06:34 AM »
So I've searched through my old emails to check what my friend wrote me a few years back and apparently the issue is that avocados seem to only produce male flowers in here. Is that possible? That seem to cause the inability to produce fruit, at least that was what he found. But maybe grafting could change that?
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Forester

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2021, 10:10:48 AM »
Russia is a more cold country than Europe, but many of us grow avocados from seed,but this is only as a houseplant. Sometimes it blooms, but no one ever talked about the fruit. :o
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spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2021, 10:27:36 AM »
It would help to see the tree that won't fruit.  Are the trees mature/large enough?  They make a big bloom?  Or we are basing the idea that is can't work off of just 1 or 2 data points?  Growing avocados indoors is not practical, in a greenhouse thats kept from freezing it should be possible.  We have a member here Mark in Texas that grows avocado in a greenhouse.  There are flies and bees that pollinate his trees. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2021, 10:43:19 AM »
Last year I wanted to buy an Avocado Brazos Belle Cold Hardy Variety from plantogram.com but because of Covid-19, they stopped shipping to my country. During a conversation with plantogram representatives, they assured me that this variety is able to bear fruit when grown in a pot and it is one of the most cold-resistant avocados.
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spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2021, 10:50:10 AM »
Any avocado can produce in a pot.  The question is how big of a pot and how much fruit will you get.  And how easy will it be to keep the tree happy in a pot for the long term. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2021, 10:55:47 AM »
Any avocado can produce in a pot.  The question is how big of a pot and how much fruit will you get.  And how easy will it be to keep the tree happy in a pot for the long term.
What do you think is the best size for an avocado pot? I have a lot of 40-liter pots in which I grow dragonfruit and monstera.
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spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2021, 11:55:42 AM »
40L is too small to produce avocado I think you need something more like 200-400L

Avocado tree is much bigger than dragonfruit and monstera plants.  Thats why I'm saying growing it and expecting fruit indoors is not practical.  Growing in a large greenhouse is doable as Mark in Texas has shown us he can do it without much problems.  If you search for avocado trees fruiting in pots theres really not a lot of examples.  Ive seen a few of them that are producing and look happy in large pots but its pretty rare.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 11:58:15 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2021, 12:01:53 PM »
200-400L
Oh, hell, it's a serious problem,but it's a workable one.
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Tommyng

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2021, 01:53:10 PM »
I haven’t had the time to up pot or plant some of my trees so there are a few avocado plants in 15 gallons holding fruit. It’s seems more than possible that you can have tree grown avocado fruit since they already bloom there, just find a suitable variety and you should be good.
Don’t rush, take time and enjoy life and food.

pineislander

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2021, 06:26:40 PM »
First off, the pollination requirements for avocado are fairly stringent and may be hard to achieve maybe even the specifics were hard to translate I doubt if any imformation sources are directly in Czech languages.

Second, this is a little off topic but in other groups I keep running across people failing with avocado and I have had troubles myself. They are actually fairly challenging and I think a lot of that has to do with their very specific habitat of origin. Many fail to give avocado sufficient protection, soil conditions and water. Others fail utterly when their  trees drown in high water or saturated pots. They are very picky about that.

Just today I ran across this slide presentation, "The Avocado Irrigation Conundrum" from a researcher in Australia discussing the finer points. For one, I wasn't aware that avocado feeder roots have no root hairs?

https://slideplayer.com/slide/4467581/

Mike T

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2021, 08:12:57 AM »
Europe has a proud fruit growing history just look at what they did with apples and how far crab apples were developed in a couple of thousand short years. It begs the question that if the fruit on offer in the garden of Eden was only a crab apple and no improved types were around then, it wasnt very tempting. I will add that the centre of new apple variety gravity has shifted to Western Australia. I am sure everyone knows Cripps Red, Pink Lady Lady and Sundowner that were developed there but a new apple will no doubt do a pink lady very soon. Look out for Bravo apples. And I digress once again yes avocadoes.
Our avocado loving European comrades no doubt realised that of the good types Fuerte, bacon, wurtz and hass are perhaps the most cold hardy and that commercial plantations are in such places as Burnie Tasmania at 41 latitude. I am sure they would have had the most cold tolerant As and Bs. If they are flowering then it is all about pollination. Maybe the ecology is so compromised that few natural pollinators arent doing the job. I am sure it would be due to basic stuff like not having As and Bs or the best suited types.

Mike T

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2021, 08:18:50 AM »
Would not be I meant to say in the last line of the previous post, sorry.

containerman

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2021, 12:23:35 PM »
I grow mine in these 24 inch containers






msk0072

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2021, 04:35:49 PM »
In my area, island of Crete, they grow very well all over the island, but the trees set fruit only in very west part where i live. The pollinators are the same.
Mike

BQ McFry

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2021, 12:47:06 PM »
There are not good comparisons in the USA to the climate of Prague. The climate in the Czech lowlands is a little less snowy in winter and less humid/muggy in summer than locations on the east coast at this latitude. In the USA regions of the west this far north, tend to have summer and winter continental extremes in temperature. And finally on the Pacific coast, there is not a good comparison possible, because you can explore weather data all the way to Vancouver Canada and the winters are not quite as cold as Prague.

However - I'd say that central Pennsylvania, around State College bears a fair resemblance. Zone 7a, close to 6b... I think most people in the forum based in the USA, would not want to give false hope to someone in central Pennsylvania who posts a question about growing avocados outdoors.  :o






« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 12:50:39 PM by BQ McFry »

Vlk

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Re: Why exactly can't avocado fruit in the central Europe?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2021, 07:08:00 AM »
Growing outdoors wouldn't be possible for sure, not even in the most southern parts of the country. That would be only possible in greenhouses which would be above or around 10 °C during winter. My friend has these conditions, avocados are growing great, but he told me about avocados making only male flowers or something along these lines. As far as I know, he never brought avocado to fruit even though they flowered.
Durian & avocado lover