Carica papaya in Florida

[Vernmented]

What are the toughest/most vigorous papaya varieties in Florida? Fruit quality is not important.

[shot]

Someone thinking root stock.I think those wild papayas down in the swamp on the side of the tamiami trail

[pineislander]

What are the toughest/most vigorous papaya varieties in Florida? Fruit quality is not important.

I planted Red Lady. Most of them seem very vigorous. These were planted into 4" pots soon after germination. Out of 20+ most appear to be female or herms, no males showing yet.
I did have them on mounds and despite heavy flooding during and pre Irma (17" in one week), only lost 1 and only a few got laid over but have been straightened out. The last planting they were getting leggy, so I did a deep planting, putting them under well below the original root flare, and those have developed a very stout trunk. I may make that my standard. 
seeds from:
http://www.shop.alohaseed.com/product.sc?productId=18&categoryId=4

[roblack]

Of all my papayas, Red Lady seems the most vigorous. Also growing Coorg Honey Dew and Kapoho Solo. Kapoho has been more vigorous than Coorg. Haven't tried a Coorg yet, they are ripening. While I really like the Red Lady, Kapoho has been my favorite, green and marinated.

[pineislander]

Josh, recall you are working on papaya breeding and happened across this work done previously in Florida which may be of interest.

http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2003-vol-116/004-6.pdf

[greenman62]

ive seen pics of someone who had a tainung #2
and the bole of the plant was much thicker than my waist.

seedman has several types.
the first might be promising for you...
https://www.seedman.com/papaya.htm

ive found plain Mexican papaya to be very vigorous and get large
given the right conditions.

also a thread here
its a very old thread... i had tried to track down "Sweet Sue" mentioned
but with no luck.
http://www.bananas.org/f8/subtropical-papayas-4249.html

[Vernmented]

Thanks for the replies. I have some seeds of some Vasconcellea that will hopefully germinate soon and I was going to use papaya rootstock to help push them along. I also thought the the solo types that may not grow as well in Florida could benefit. Right now I have 'Improved Solo Sunrise', 'Solo Sunset', 'Linda' and 'Waimanalo X-77 (Kamia)' from alohaseeds.com growing in a heavily modified raised bed. They are all starting flower and set fruit right now. It is looking like the Linda is the only herm and the others are female. If I get some seeds in some of the female plants there is a chance that I will have a new cross although papaya is tricky and "gender fluid"  so I wouldn't be sure.

I had a couple Red Lady that grew really well and it sounds like everyone else had the same experience. Both of them were female and set heavily with seedless fruit. I read some papers and comments talking about females not setting fruit without pollination but that wasn't the case for me.

I thought the only benefit to herm plants were the shape allows for less crowded fruit without thinning and the seeds are useful and fill a void that is there either way.

I saw those plots of the transgenic papaya at TREC. They had inoculated them PRSV and they were many years old. I think they will be releasing them soon.

[lebmung]

For 9b zone from my trials (I am in zone 7b-8a), Thai papaya is the strongest (the strongest is Babaco, but it's not real papaya). I say this because I collected some seeds from northern Thailand where temperatures in the winter drop to 6-10C (40-50F). It will not die when is cold. BUT it needs to be dry. No wet feet. (actually there in 3 months it rains twice). They grow very fast, and make flowers around 1m (3 ft) tall. Hawaii papayas are very sensitive to cold, they root rot fast.
I have another method, I grow them outside in land during the summer then I cut the top off, root it and pot it. New flowers start close to the ground like 30cm (1ft), the root system is very shallow, and no more tap root, it's a method they use in Thailand.
Sure you can use mountain papaya as a rootstock for normal papaya ( I am going to make this soon and on other Vasconcellea speacies, I already successfully grafted papaya on babaco).
This is the papaya in Thailand, they weight 2-3kg, no virus present (should you want some seeds let me know, I carefully collected them and removed the sarcotesta individually, germination is 90%) :


and here is in my greenhouse, this is only 5 months old from seed:

[Vernmented]

For 9b zone from my trials (I am in zone 7b-8a), Thai papaya is the strongest (the strongest is Babaco, but it's not real papaya). I say this because I collected some seeds from northern Thailand where temperatures in the winter drop to 6-10C (40-50F). It will not die when is cold. BUT it needs to be dry. No wet feet. (actually there in 3 months it rains twice). They grow very fast, and make flowers around 1m (3 ft) tall. Hawaii papayas are very sensitive to cold, they root rot fast.
I have another method, I grow them outside in land during the summer then I cut the top off, root it and pot it. New flowers start close to the ground like 30cm (1ft), the root system is very shallow, and no more tap root, it's a method they use in Thailand.
Sure you can use mountain papaya as a rootstock for normal papaya ( I am going to make this soon and on other Vasconcellea speacies, I already successfully grafted papaya on babaco).
This is the papaya in Thailand, they weight 2-3kg, no virus present (should you want some seeds let me know, I carefully collected them and removed the sarcotesta individually, germination is 90%) :


and here is in my greenhouse, this is only 5 months old from seed:

Nice! My babaco roots rotted out. Papaya, like my previous Red Lady works great here. Right now the 'Linda' variety I have is the most vigorous. I am not really working for cold or PRSV tolerance here, just something with vigor. I planted some Vasconcellea pubescens X quercifolia and a couple Jacaratia mexicana that haven't come up yet. I lost my seed tray of the Vasconcellea palandensis but that would be a good candidate.

[lebmung]

For vigor it's easy, they are heavy feeders so use a lot of quality fertilizer (there is a method to grow them fast and vigorous in half time like 2m (6ft) in 4 months from seeds sown, but I won't share it, it's my own research). Now for Vasconcellea pubescens seeds need treatment, I included full tested germination instructions to you in the letter. Most of the seeds are viable, you can break them and see the embryo inside, however the biggest problem is dormancy.
Hybrids are very hard to germinate, seeds are mostly not viable or they lose viability very fast, I don't know about the seeds you have, but Vasconcellea pubescens X quercifolia is hybrid. Hybrids can be grown successfully with embryo rescue techniques.

[Aaron]

not sure how vigorous it is but if you aren't worried about flavor T.R. Hovey might be worth looking at.

[pineislander]

not sure how vigorous it is but if you aren't worried about flavor T.R. Hovey might be worth looking at.

I'll not forget "3 lb. bags of vomit" eeks!
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20574.0

[greenman62]

Vasconcellea is not the closest relative to Carica

i am looking to get Jacarita seeds in spring i hope.
(J. Digitada or Spinosa)
http://www.sunshine-seeds.de/product_info.php?products_id=52080&language=en
http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/es/pix/JacDig.shtml
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacaratia_spinosa_(Aubl.)_A.DC._(8602172400).jpg

theres a ton of info on crossbreeding
heres one page i remember seeing long ago
(there is a copy with pics/slides probably in my files)
i had decided "Pusa Nana" was the best to get from the data
(ive got seeds somewhere... i think you can get off ebay)
http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/soni1211-2681997-genetic-improvement-papaya/


Correct names for some of the closest relatives of Carica papaya:
A review of the Mexican/Guatemalan genera Jarilla and Horovitzia
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881347/


Carvalho FA. 2013. e-Monograph of Caricaceae
http://herbaria.plants.ox.ac.uk/bol/caricaceae

[dragon]

For 9b zone from my trials (I am in zone 7b-8a), Thai papaya is the strongest (the strongest is Babaco, but it's not real papaya). I say this because I collected some seeds from northern Thailand where temperatures in the winter drop to 6-10C (40-50F). It will not die when is cold. BUT it needs to be dry. No wet feet. (actually there in 3 months it rains twice). They grow very fast, and make flowers around 1m (3 ft) tall. Hawaii papayas are very sensitive to cold, they root rot fast.
I have another method, I grow them outside in land during the summer then I cut the top off, root it and pot it. New flowers start close to the ground like 30cm (1ft), the root system is very shallow, and no more tap root, it's a method they use in Thailand.
Sure you can use mountain papaya as a rootstock for normal papaya ( I am going to make this soon and on other Vasconcellea speacies, I already successfully grafted papaya on babaco).
This is the papaya in Thailand, they weight 2-3kg, no virus present (should you want some seeds let me know, I carefully collected them and removed the sarcotesta individually, germination is 90%) :


and here is in my greenhouse, this is only 5 months old from seed:

Nice! My babaco roots rotted out. Papaya, like my previous Red Lady works great here. Right now the 'Linda' variety I have is the most vigorous. I am not really working for cold or PRSV tolerance here, just something with vigor. I planted some Vasconcellea pubescens X quercifolia and a couple Jacaratia mexicana that haven't come up yet. I lost my seed tray of the Vasconcellea palandensis but that would be a good candidate.

Is your  papaya in the picture called tainung 1?  Is it sweet ?

[lebmung]

Is your  papaya in the picture called tainung 1?  Is it sweet ?
[/quote]

Tainung was a hybrid developed in Taiwan. It is not Tainung, this is a heirloom papaya in northern Thailand passed down by generations, flesh is orange and very sweet. Some threes are even 20 years old. I need 3 days to eat one they are so big.
I believe is Khaek Dum somehow crossed with others, normally Khaek Dum is long and thiner.

[dragon]

Is your  papaya in the picture called tainung 1?  Is it sweet ?

Tainung was a hybrid developed in Taiwan. It is not Tainung, this is a heirloom papaya in northern Thailand passed down by generations, flesh is orange and very sweet. Some threes are even 20 years old. I need 3 days to eat one they are so big.
I believe is Khaek Dum somehow crossed with others, normally Khaek Dum is long and thiner.
[/quote]

I wish I can find this variety in U.S nursery. I usually see Mexican , solo . The rare one are tainung-1 and tr.hovey. I bought these two last year and they both died on me. I just bought tainung 1 again in August, but it doesn't look healthy at all.

[lebmung]

I wish I can find this variety in U.S nursery. I usually see Mexican , solo . The rare one are tainung-1 and tr.hovey. I bought these two last year and they both died on me. I just bought tainung 1 again in August, but it doesn't look healthy at all.
[/quote]

I have seeds left if you are interested to grow it, it's actually very easy to sprout them. From my knowledge TR Hovey is a seedless hybrid, at least the original one and Tainung is was somehow genetically modified. In Japan they found many of the Tainung no.5 to be GM.

[sahai1]

Growing Khaek Dam too, there is a variety of Khaek Dam called Khaek Dam Nuan, wonder what kind this is:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjh2HAournI

I think if you want to grow resilient papayas in your area in Florida, best to find seed stock from trees doing well around there if possible. 

I'm growing Khaek Dam now, they are not flood tolerant and don't like wet feet.  I have them in a raised area about 3-3.5 feet above water table and they like that so far.