The Tropical Fruit Forum

Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: DFWCitrus on April 06, 2017, 10:36:37 AM

Title: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: DFWCitrus on April 06, 2017, 10:36:37 AM
Hello, I just joined the forum here, great place and lucky find!

I live in the DFW area and recently transplanted myself from San Diego. I am a citrus nut and just had to have my citrus. After some research I discovered a Texas Satsuma variety originating from Texas A&M called Arctic Frost. It has been shown to have good cold tolerance down to 9-10oF.  Hard to believe. After getting several and planting them end of August last year, they took a bad beating when we had high winds and 16oF. They were covered and had a halogen uplight. Anyway I got complete die back of foliage and limbs, as did my Seto Satsuma I put in the ground. I guess they were still too young to take it?

I have found the Arctic Frost not to be vigorous and very touchy to transplanting. It is not a grafted plant but originally grown from seed and now propagated by cuttings.

Anyone else have experience with an Arctic Frost Satsuma?  I'll later attach a photo of the one Arctic Frost I kept in greenhouse protection this winter.

Larry
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: DFWCitrus on April 06, 2017, 01:10:49 PM
3 year old Arctic Frost Satsuma. This cultivar thought to be the most cold hardy sweet edible citrus.
(https://s29.postimg.cc/4jlslywqb/Arctic_Satsuma.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4jlslywqb/)
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Millet on April 06, 2017, 02:51:32 PM
Very nice trees.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: vlan1 on April 06, 2017, 05:43:40 PM
Lots of people here in central texas bought arctic frost satsumas and orange frost oranges the last few years.

most of them got killed even with protection during the January cold snap when it got down to 20 or under for 2 nights.

Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Citradia on April 06, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Try Kimbrough. Mine has done very well with winter protection, even sailing through a night of 19 degrees or lower during an ice storm with no electricity to powerful my space heater in its plastic greenhouse without dropping leaves and fruiting the next year.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: DFWCitrus on April 06, 2017, 10:43:45 PM
Thanks. I have not seen Kimbrough for sale in my area of Texas, but I will watch for them. I pulled the Arctic Frosts out and put back into containers as they are damaged almost to the stump and the new growth wilted and died. Hoping my Seto Satsumas will make it through as they are more mature. I just need temps to stay above 18oF this next winter.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Citradia on April 07, 2017, 08:28:10 PM
DFWCitrus, what did you cover the satsumas with? Plastic or frost cloth?  I've been covering my grapefruit and owari and Changsha and Meiwa with 4mil plastic and put small desk-top size space heaters inside the pvc pipe -frame enclosure for the past several years, and these trees survived zero degrees for several nights. I've also lost citranges that I tried to protect with frost cloth. Maybe your trees were not very dormant when the temps in the teens hit. I have a citradia citrange that did good with a low of 7 degrees this winter, but after a warm February, it started budding out, and when I got two nights of 14 degrees, the new growth died and it lost entire branches. We have to protect more when trees not dormant.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: DFWCitrus on April 07, 2017, 09:34:50 PM
DFWCitrus, what did you cover the satsumas with? Plastic or frost cloth?  I've been covering my grapefruit and owari and Changsha and Meiwa with 4mil plastic and put small desk-top size space heaters inside the pvc pipe -frame enclosure for the past several years, and these trees survived zero degrees for several nights. I've also lost citranges that I tried to protect with frost cloth. Maybe your trees were not very dormant when the temps in the teens hit. I have a citradia citrange that did good with a low of 7 degrees this winter, but after a warm February, it started budding out, and when I got two nights of 14 degrees, the new growth died and it lost entire branches. We have to protect more when trees not dormant.
I had purchased frost cloth but it was terrible. The problem was I did not adequately cover them. This year I will either buy or make a framed plastic covering for each in the ground citrus until they are more mature. Planting late in the season didn't help. I was hoping for another mild winter ;)
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: manfromyard on April 08, 2017, 09:03:05 AM
I had one some years ago. Totally wimped out on me. It wasn't even close to the low that they said it could endure. It was up against a south wall and with protection. Just for comparison, my yuzuquat and meyer lemon that were in the same situation are still alive.

Maybe the name should be changed to Temperate Chill......

Totally false advertising on this variety, and it doesn't appear to come back from the trunk or roots after taking damage, unlike most citrus...
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: GregW on May 18, 2017, 06:45:02 PM


I have found the Arctic Frost not to be vigorous and very touchy to transplanting. It is not a grafted plant but originally grown from seed and now propagated by cuttings.

Anyone else have experience with an Arctic Frost Satsuma?  I'll later attach a photo of the one Arctic Frost I kept in greenhouse protection this winter.

Larry
[/quote]

I have a couple of Arctic Frost and I don't consider them to be a vigorous grower either. My trees are in their second summer. I got them pretty late in the season last year. I have them planted in air pots.

Hopefully they will have a good growing season this year.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Citradia on May 18, 2017, 06:54:09 PM
I saw arctic frost satsumas for sale in the greenhouse of an Asheville, NC nursery, and they were covered in small thorns; my other sats don't have thorns. Is this because the arctic frosts are cuttings from seedlings instead of more mature wood, or just thorny nature of this variety?
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Ilya11 on May 19, 2017, 04:41:58 AM
Arctic Frost is not a pure satsuma, it's Satsuma x Changsha hybrid and it does have small thorns.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Millet on May 19, 2017, 11:15:57 AM
The history of the Arctic Frost hybrid satsuma, a Texas super star,---  who developed it and how it was developed.

https://today.agrilife.org/2015/06/10/arctic-frost-satsuma-mandarin-hybrid-named-new-texas-superstar/
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: SoCal2warm on May 19, 2017, 11:31:38 PM
The surrounding Dallas area (including Southlake) is in climate zone 7, with central Dallas falling into zone 8a. Or that's how it's used to be. Within the last 10 years winter lows haven't gone down as cold as they used to and the entire region has moved into zone 8a.

I guess if you get desperate enough there's the "Ten Degree Mandarin" but it has seeds.
It would really help if you used shade cloth and kept the mandarins well watered during the hot summers, because the temperatures can get very high where you are. (A little thing some people may not realize is that mandarins do not do as well with these very high temperatures as other citrus)

Young citrus trees are more vulnerable to winter chill than more mature citrus trees. A 3-year-old tree might still be just a little young to put outside in zone 7 or 8.

 
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Gsmeyer on May 22, 2017, 07:27:13 PM
I recently took a patio citrus at the Fort Worth botanical garden. There is a lemon which will grow here without protection. It is the Ichang lemon.   The classes instructor had an ichang growing in his yard unprotected for years.   They are hard to find though.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Millet on May 22, 2017, 09:06:24 PM
You can purchase Ichang Lemons from Stan McKenzie at http://mckenzie-farms.com/ (http://mckenzie-farms.com/)
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Droshi on June 15, 2017, 01:24:31 PM
I planted an Arctic Frost for my mother in Dallas, died this last winter when it got down to 10F (no protection, middle of yard). I was hoping it would come back from the roots, but no such luck.

Would have to agree that it's nothing special and might as well go with any other Satsuma and plan to protect it during winters.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: AndrewAZ on June 16, 2017, 12:38:32 AM
You could try changsha  mandarin.  It is seedy, but the fruit tastes very good.  Hardy to 15.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: mikkel on June 16, 2017, 05:07:05 PM
Is Arctic Frost available in Europe?
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Delvi83 on June 19, 2017, 05:34:08 PM
I think there is a lot of marketing about these 2 cultivars.....I think they are not hardier than other (for example the Russian Satsuma cultivars)..
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: vanman on June 25, 2017, 11:58:52 AM
I have arctic frost and orange frost in the ground.  One set is on its own rootstock, the other is grafted to trifloliate.  Both were protected with Christmas lights and covers.  This was their first winter.  One set got down to at least 14 degrees and probably lower but I stopped looking after 3am.  The lows for those three nights were 11, 3 and 5.

(https://s3.postimg.cc/4g0rjfbv3/20170625_063401.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4g0rjfbv3/)
Here is Arctic frost (right) and Owari.  Owari suffer the most damage.  Where there were no Christmas lights, it died back.  The Arctic frost had mild to moderate damage. 



(https://s1.postimg.cc/uvpoqpkaz/20170625_063436.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uvpoqpkaz/)
This is Orange frost and Xie Shan.  No damage at all.  The Xie Shan has fruit this year.  The real surprise is the mango seedling to the very right, no damage.  The Orange frost had fruit on it when purchased.  I picked them in Sept.  They were ok, not great and they had seeds. 

The pair that were grafted also were no damage, but they are smaller and much better protected.  These grafted ones are growing much slower.  Part of the reason is that they're growing in native soil versus a garden soil for the others. 

As of now, I don't have an opinion about Arctic or Orange frost.  Other mandarins so far seem to be about as cold hardy.  This last winter was fairly mild after those 3 days in Dec. 



Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Delvi83 on July 06, 2017, 03:21:25 AM
If Mango surivived this is not a "good" place to test the cold-hardiness of Satsuma :)
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: SoCal2warm on July 21, 2017, 01:41:34 PM
It usually takes Satsuma trees 5 years in the ground before they are fully cold hardy.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: dlhvac on January 26, 2019, 09:38:25 AM
3 year old Arctic Frost Satsuma. This cultivar thought to be the most cold hardy sweet edible citrus.
(https://s29.postimg.cc/4jlslywqb/Arctic_Satsuma.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4jlslywqb/)
  Hi all no survivors of my ruby red grapefruit in ground naval (only trifolate rootstock was 10 foot tall.
i have a naval that was given to me in an oak barrel that fruits but has seeds. i want to cross this with either the arctic frost or the other cold hardy mandarin variety developed in Texas. i don't have a problem with the citrus disease because of using the natural root fungus and supplementing with growth hormone  regulator Brassinolide . I cannot find these varieties anywhere in Florida
i want to cross the naval with seeds to arctic frost. I have been told the naval oranges that have seed are very rare so im keeping it in the half oak barrel. And to poster below the top of my mango died down to 6 foot was a 30 foot tree but it did survive barely was against a south facing concrete wall.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: SoCal2warm on January 26, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
Here's my Arctic Frost.

It was growing inside and then I planted it outside too early in March before the tree had time to be acclimated to the cold outside (it did not go below freezing though) and much of the top died back. It later started growing back.

This picture is from July:
(https://s33.postimg.cc/nr3wm4z23/20180709_171256.jpg)

This picture is from today (Jan 26) :
(https://i.postimg.cc/bsDV5gZf/20190126-112909.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bsDV5gZf) (https://i.postimg.cc/Mnjm7Vbz/20190128-132737.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mnjm7Vbz)

It lost all its leaves except two, and they both look a pale lime green. It looks like it may be able to come back though.
It probably would have done better had so much of the tree not died back in March (which was due to sudden transfer from warm growing conditions inside to a cold outside before it had time to become acclimatized). All those dead branches you see in the second picture had already died back in March, before the first picture was taken.

Olympia, WA, zone 8a


Incidentally I have a Satsuma that looks much better right now (but it's not a fair comparison, and the Satsuma was also covered with a frame until early January when the winds tore off the frame).
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: SoCal2warm on March 20, 2019, 01:30:21 AM
It appears the plant is now dead. It did not survive through the snow in February.
I believe this plant was own-root and it might have been different if it had been grafted onto trifoliate rootstock.


A regular Satsuma (on dwarf rootstock) did survive but it was covered. There were three gallon water containers under the cover but they never froze (I went out and checked on them during the coldest point in the Winter very early in the morning).
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: mrtexas on April 26, 2019, 10:54:22 PM
You had -6F December 23, 1983. You are dreaming if you
believe zone 8a
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: SoCal2warm on April 29, 2019, 10:30:20 PM
The Satsuma now appears dead too.

So it appears that a small sized Satsuma on dwarf rootstock, covered by a clear vinyl plastic enclosure, was not able to survive.
An Arctic Frost growing on its own roots, not protected, in a kind of shady spot, which was moved outside a little too early in early March with very cool but not freezing temperatures, died back and then recovered, was not able to survive either.

But this was definitely a colder Winter than usual. Snow 16-18 inches deep (which is unusual here) and temperatures in the yard that I estimate went down to about 14 F.

It is in zone 8a, but in the Pacific Northwest where temperatures do not really begin consistently rising until very late April.

The Arctric Frost might have done better if it had been grafted onto trifoliate and if it had not been growing inside and suddenly transferred into the cold outside in March, which resulted in a fair amount of die-back due to the sudden transition, which may have put it in a position not to be able to handle the following Winter as well. Perhaps planting it in a warmer sunnier spot might also have helped.

For comparison, the Yuzu on dwarf rootstock (probably the same rootstock variety because same nursery) survived, still has retained a few of its leaves, although it looks like it has gone through an ordeal and there is just a little bit of branch die-back at the extremities.


What I think this proves is that an Arctic Frost is not going to easily survive a cold winter in the Pacific Northwest region.

This is of course a very different situation from Texas and the South.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Ilya11 on April 30, 2019, 03:11:11 AM

But this was definitely a colder Winter than usual. Snow 16-18 inches deep (which is unusual here) and temperatures in the yard that I estimate went down to about 14 F.

It is in zone 8a, but in the Pacific Northwest where temperatures do not really begin consistently rising until very late April.

14F is  what  should occur in USDA zone 8a (10F-15F) almost all the time.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: seattlefiggirl on February 11, 2020, 07:57:53 PM


“When planting in the ground, protection from cold by wrapping with frost cloth for the first year or two is recommended,” Pemberton said. “A site protected from the north wind will also help with winter survival.”

https://agrilifetoday.tamu.edu/2015/06/10/arctic-frost-satsuma-mandarin-hybrid-named-new-texas-superstar/

I'm also in PNW im interested in growing citrus outdoors not yuzu. Thank you for your updates on the arctic frost satsuma. I think it is cold hardy to 15 degrees when matured. This article recommended to have a shelter near the house for extra protection and frost cover for the first few years until more established. I think it is possible. But im unable to test this due to no room right next to my house to plant in ground. So i will just have to try for frost cover. Please keep us updated on your outdoor cold hardy citrus.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: kumin on February 11, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
My understanding is that frost cloth is most effective when it covers the entire canopy, then drops straight down and is secured to the soil with no gaps. The perimeter at soil contact should be the same as the canopy perimeter. The frost cloth should not be tied to the trunk at the soil line.

The objective is to capture the slight warmth rising from the soil under the tree. The frost cloth serves as a modest thermal barrier between the soil and the cold night sky, with the tree being within the protective envelope.

The effect can be further enhanced by temporarily covering the frost cloth with poly film. This is most beneficial under windy conditions. During sunny days this can create excessive heat being trapped under the covers, so it's best to use poly film in temporary, extreme conditions. Cooking the plants is not preferable to freezing them!
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: CarolinaZone on March 01, 2020, 09:33:30 AM
Does anybody here know of a good online nursery that will ship these? I would be willing to drive if there there was a place to buy them in New Orleans.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Bomand on March 01, 2020, 10:09:31 AM
There are several places in New Orleans that have what you need. Look on Facebook Marketplace under Citrus for sale in New Orleans.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Bomand on March 01, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
I have planted and grafted the Artic Frost mandrin and have found it less hardy than Owari, Armstrong, Brown Select and Early St Anne. In fact I found it impacted at 28 and29 degrees....leaf burn and twig die back while standard mandrins suffered no ill.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Delvi83 on May 25, 2020, 08:03:00 AM
Did it make new leaves ? or did it die ?
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: GregW on May 31, 2020, 05:56:42 PM
My 5-year-old trees are still a disappointment. I have posted in the forum asking for help in sorting out the problems.
Has anyone been successful in growing Arctic Frost in a container on the patio?
 
Thanks
Greg
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: Mag on June 01, 2020, 11:28:03 PM
Hi Greg, I grow arctic frost on a patio in a 25 gallon container. Central Texas. I bring it in if it gets real cold. It has grown well and produced a lot of fruit. I do get some leaf curling but it doesn’t affect it too much.
Title: Re: Arctic Frost Satsuma experience
Post by: GregW on June 24, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
My trees are beginning to look a lot better.
At Millets recommendation, I have started using the Jacks professional 25-5-15 fertilizer.
I apply it in every watering. The soil is very well draining and I water daily, unless it's raining.
I use 1 teaspoon of Jacks per gallon of water.