Code of ethics, taking fruits from others growers trees...What's your take?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Some thought I want to touch on from an old post I made a while ago,

The text I quoted below kind of sums up a brief CODE OF ETHICS I formulated, concerning the taking fruit from trees that aren't exactly yours...

In my opinion, sometimes it's ok, sometimes you should be punished for sure...guess it all depends on a bunch of factors.

What are some other members thoughts about this gray area of right and wrong, and theft or thrift (gathering wasted fruits falling, or neglected by owner)

Here was my original post about how I feel...

As a rule, I won't steal your fruit if you:

1 only have one, or a small amount

2 if you've taken obvious measures to discourage fruit theft (nets, planting in back yard, signs, etc)

3 if the fruit takes more than 3 moths to ripen and is expensive or scarce.


When I am more likely to be a bandit:

1 when the fruit has fruits dropping or rotting on ground (obvious fruit isn't being all picked)

2 when fruit is of small size, abundant and ripening almost year round

3 when branches hang over the fence, and it's reachable from public property, don't care if its a jackfruit, don't plant it near a frickin fence, and a public area where your tree may encroach, tempting me and others with fruits! (my favorite! Legit way to eat on the street)

Just had to breakdown the code of conduct!  I know karma is real, and if you go stealing from peoples pineapple patch, or mamey tree up by their front door (far onto private property)....you may just meet a scary or pissed quadruped or bipedal creature.

[fruitlovers]

I think the only time you're really justified in taking fruits from trees that are not yours is when they are hanging over a fence, then really may be no longer on their property. When at all possible always ask for permission. I think if well approached most people are generous. If a property is vacant for a very long time or property is foreclosed then maybe it's also OK. you have to use your own good judgement of situation. But keep in mind that most times people, property managers, banks, are more upset by trespassing than by taking of their fruits. A lot of americans are very concerned (paranoid) also about liability: you climb their tree, fall off and sue them.
Oscar

[lycheeluva]

i think your code should be added as an amendment to the constitution

[fruitlovers]

HAHA, yes, the fruit lover's constitution.
I try to be generous with others as i remember all the times people were generous to me when i went foraging.
Also when i set up my orchard planting plan i planted all the fruits i don't mind others taking close to the fence. The very valuable ones i planted closer to my house, or at least away from the fence. If i have a lot of fruits i enjoy other people also enjoying them, especially kids. But if it's one of a kind, first time fruiting, endangered species, etc. then ofcourse i'm a lot more protective of it. 
Oscar

[murahilin]

I think the only time you're really justified in taking fruits from trees that are not yours is when they are hanging over a fence, then really may be no longer on their property. When at all possible always ask for permission. I think if well approached most people are generous. If a property is vacant for a very long time or property is foreclosed then maybe it's also OK. you have to use your own good judgement of situation. But keep in mind that most times people, property managers, banks, are more upset by trespassing than by taking of their fruits. A lot of americans are very concerned (paranoid) also about liability: you climb their tree, fall off and sue them.
Oscar

Exactly. That's why I am wary of planting a fruit tree in front of my house. I don't trust people's stupidity to not hurt themselves and then sue me.

I agree with you also that no fruit should be taken unless it is hanging over a fence into public property. That fruit is fair game. Then again, I would never actually take the fruit in fear of being looked upon as a fruit stealer. I would still ask. Since I don't actually walk anywhere, I can't see myself coming across random fruit trees anyways. When it comes to my own trees, I wouldn't mind if my neighbor took a fruit that was hanging over the fence but I would be pissed if someone was driving through my street and stopped to pick fruit from my tree that did not live in my neighborhood.

[Tropicdude]

I agree with fruitlovers, if its hanging over on my side, I will probably pick it.

Other than that, I would just ask, in the case of them just letting them rot. I would just offer to "do them the favor " hehe.

[Sleepdoc]

Uhhh ... I totally disagree.

If my tree is hanging over your fence, then yes, 100% fair game.   If someone asks, I have no problem sharing and actually enjoy it.  But if you don't ask, seriously don't touch.

Certainly don't trespass to steal anything. I get crazy mad over those things.  I find it akin to messing with a mans vehicle, just don't do it.   

[fruitlovers]

Uhhh ... I totally disagree.

If my tree is hanging over your fence, then yes, 100% fair game.   If someone asks, I have no problem sharing and actually enjoy it.  But if you don't ask, seriously don't touch.

Certainly don't trespass to steal anything. I get crazy mad over those things.  I find it akin to messing with a mans vehicle, just don't do it.   

Yeah, i think most people are like you--if you ask them then they treat you kindly and maybe generously, because you are respecting them and so they will respect you also. If you just wander into their yard, trespass on their land, they may very well pull out their 12 gauge shotgun.
Some of my fondest memories of fruit foraging are when i asked people if i could collect some of their fruits. So don't hesitate to ask. As a kid i used to bike up and down alleys of Southern Cal (Pasadena). A lot of people had fruit trees in their backyards, and many had tons of fruits on the ground they didn't pick. I would say 90% would say yes when i asked them courteously. The other 10% you don't wanna mess with anyway. I remember asking a guy who had a white sapote in his area bordering the street. Probably not even on his property. But i asked him anyway and he said SURE, take all you want. Was one of the best white sapotes i ever had, and i must have collected four big boxes to take home.
Oscar

[bsbullie]

If the tree is on my property, front or back yard, and I coose to let it fall and rot, that is my prerogative and is still my fruit.  This does not give some ass the right to take the dropped fruit nor the fruit from my tree.  If I have a broken down car on my property (an antique or muscle car I am restoring or just storing till I do decide to restore, sell, or the like), does that mean you have the right to take it or parts from it, NO.  Whether fruit or cars, it is theft any way you look at it...if you drive by a nursery when they are closed, is it ok to go help yourself ? 

Otherwise, as been already stated, if it is hanging over a fence onto "your" property. then by all means, have at the it.  And of course, if you are polite and respectful and ask, so long as there is more than one or two, I will be glad to sell, I mean share, with my neighbors. 

I guess you can see that some people have no respect, cooth or class...

[Saltcayman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/us/15forage.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Foraging%20severson&st=cse

An interesting article on foraging. Apparently many abandoned properties are considered easy pickings.

[Squam256]

Just my perspective. My neighbor (who I don't know) has an avocado tree; they don't always pick the fruit or even take the ones that fall to the ground. Even though there is no barrier separating the two properties, and fruit often is within just a few feet of the property line, the only fruits from that tree I've eaten are ones that have fallen (or been kicked....seen them do that ) on to my side. Under no circumstances do I ever go onto someone else's property to take something that isn't mine.....even if they don't appear to be eating it.

Unfortunately, both petty and serious theft can be bad . While you may think taking one or two fruits from somebody else's tree is relatively harmless, there is a cumulative effect from many people taking this same approach, and its not uncommon for a homeowner to lose more than half their crop from a tree to passers-by that just take "only" a little at a time.

If fruit is overhanging a fence, then literally speaking it is fair game....but even then I personally won't pick it. Most of the time if you ask people's permission, they will probably let you have some, and many people view it as an opportunity to talk about something they take a great deal of pride in. But if you feel awkward about it, you can sidestep it by asking them what variety it is, etc.

Generally speaking, fruit is cheap enough that you shouldn't have to resort to stealing anyways (rising food prices notwithstanding)

[FlyingFoxFruits]

If the tree is on my property, front or back yard, and I coose to let it fall and rot, that is my prerogative and is still my fruit.  This does not give some ass the right to take the dropped fruit nor the fruit from my tree.  If I have a broken down car on my property (an antique or muscle car I am restoring or just storing till I do decide to restore, sell, or the like), does that mean you have the right to take it or parts from it, NO.  Whether fruit or cars, it is theft any way you look at it...if you drive by a nursery when they are closed, is it ok to go help yourself ? 

Otherwise, as been already stated, if it is hanging over a fence onto "your" property. then by all means, have at the it.  And of course, if you are polite and respectful and ask, so long as there is more than one or two, I will be glad to sell, I mean share, with my neighbors. 

I guess you can see that some people have no respect, cooth or class...

Sometimes property lines aren't as clear cut as the owner may like, and I've seen lots of people plant on easements in front or along side of their homes (which are accessible without technically trespassing), but in actuality the trees are subject to removal, and destruction if the city needs to put up power lines, or sewer pipes, and the likes.

I have no problem sometimes setting foot on what some might consider their property, but really isn't....but trespassing is trespassing, and stealing is stealing...so you really walk a fine line, when picking fruits off a tree, or even the ground, when the tree is on an easement near a private residence.

Have seen mango trees, and avocado trees, that were planted on easements, or on school grounds...with fruits all on the ground, being neglected and left for raccoons to pillage....so then and only then BSBULLIE, would I dare to take your fallen fruits...I see where you are coming from though...maybe you just want them to sprout under the tree, or even some people I know, let fruit fall because they want to encourage wildlife (not fruit stealing humans) to enjoy them....I understand your logic, and appreciate your post.

My code I initially posted is a rough draft, and was very vague if you read my exact wording...I don't always approve of all the reasons listed for "When I'm most likely to be a bandit"...I'm just going to be more likely to consider taking the fruits if they are indeed in piles under the tree...and on an easement where trespassing isn't a concern.

Thanks Bullie,
and all others who post their ethics...

we need to make the real deal code of conduct!!!  Wonder if we can make a poll? or somehow together as a group, formulate a code of ethics, that is by all means legal and unanimously agreed upon.

Thanks again to all who post here!

[fruitlovers]

From the other side of the coin, i'd like to tell you about one unfortunate incident i had. My wife let a fellow come in to take some breadfruits, then a couple of years later i notice some of my marangs missing. This was my first big marang fruiting so i was pretty mad. Turns out he was still coming in for more, and not just breadfruits. Some folks you give em an inch and they take a mile. So if you decide to let someone come into your property make sure you spell out your conditions, maybe that it's a one time deal and they can only come in when you're around and with permission.
Oscar

[FlyingFoxFruits]

From the other side of the coin, i'd like to tell you about one unfortunate incident i had. My wife let a fellow come in to take some breadfruits, then a couple of years later i notice some of my marangs missing. This was my first big marang fruiting so i was pretty mad. Turns out he was still coming in for more, and not just breadfruits. Some folks you give em an inch and they take a mile. So if you decide to let someone come into your property make sure you spell out your conditions, maybe that it's a one time deal and they can only come in when you're around and with permission.
Oscar

Oscar the" Bottomless Pouch" of wisdom!

Thanks for yet another good point my man.

After a while, if we review these posts, we can make a document with guidelines for gathering fruits properly from pubic property. The document we forge should also include some info on how to choose a good location for planting.  Hopefully reducing risk of fruit theft, and discouraging visitors who aren't welcome.  We should also list other ideas about this subject (like Oscar's above). Such ideas might be beneficial for those who are potential victims, and may also properly educate fruit gatherers who're naively inclined to steal fruits illegally.

[TropicalFruitHunters]

I believe it was an avocado tree...but someone on the GW forum said a group of people drove their truck right into their front yard beneath the tree and picked the tree bare. 

[BluePalm]

Do you remember the post from GW about a Bengal lycee tree owner near Miami who had limbs broken off at night by fruit-thieving neighbors? It's incredible the lack of respect some people have for our prized possessions.

[mangomandan]

I definitely agree that asking first goes a long way.   I'll usually share some.  But if I don't like the cut of your jib I may respond with: "Are you sure?  They're ten dollars a pound."

A few don'ts from past experience:

Don't climb into the tree with grocery bags after I've already told you "no".
Don't pull your truck and ladder up to my lychee tree and start grabbing everything.
Don't assume that I have more mangos than anyone could possibly use. I have friends, relatives, coworkers. Plus I'm a greedy SOB.
Don't assume that I haven't picked the Lancetillas because I don't like mangos. They aren't ready yet.

And if someone insists on stealing, they better be a mind reader. If they steal from certain trees, it's only a venial sin.  Stealing Dots is a capital offense.  And they're won't be a jury.

[FloridaGreenMan]

Be very careful if you walk up to someone's fruit tree. Remember this sign! 

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Here's another nice one Noel!

HAHA!

[Tropicalgrower89]

[FloridaGreenMan]

Great signs!  I have seen similar signs down in the Homestead farming areas. There  is a lot of big time fruit theft especially in the Mamey groves. 

[Tropicalgrower89]

Great signs!  I have seen similar signs down in the Homestead farming areas. There  is a lot of big time fruit theft especially in the Mamey groves.

I remember hearing about mamey thefts in the redland/homestead agriculture area on the news 2 years ago.

An example of a huge mamey plantation and maybe the largest in south florida is Reyes Del Mamey. They've been around since the 1978.

[Squam256]

Great signs!  I have seen similar signs down in the Homestead farming areas. There  is a lot of big time fruit theft especially in the Mamey groves.

Chris Rollins tells stories about the 'Mamey Wars' that used to occur when Mamey first started coming into largescale production in Homestead 30 years ago or whatever. Some of those battles involved automatic weapons. There would be truckloads of thieves racing through the Redland in the middle of the night going for the mamey.

[fruitlovers]

No theft here, except large scale theft. Someone stole 4-5,000 pounds of coffee cherries. The owner estimates 3-4 people picking his crop over a period of 3 days took most of his treasured coffee at peak or ripeness. Police have no clues.
In the vandalism department: someone cut down 9 acres of full grown papayas. Owner guesses 2-3 people walked down his rows and slashed every single tree. This happened exactly a year ago in the same neighborhood, cutting down about 6 acres of papayas. Right now there is a $10,000 reward leading to any information. Nobody saw a darned thing. Probably done at first light.
Oscar

[FloridaGreenMan]

Great signs!  I have seen similar signs down in the Homestead farming areas. There  is a lot of big time fruit theft especially in the Mamey groves.

I remember hearing about mamey thefts in the redland/homestead agriculture area on the news 2 years ago.

An example of a huge mamey plantation and maybe the largest in south florida is Reyes Del Mamey. They've been around since the 1978.

If Reyes del Mamey have the largest grove in Florida, then it's also the largest in the USA.  They are not grown in volume anywhere else in the states.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Great signs!  I have seen similar signs down in the Homestead farming areas. There  is a lot of big time fruit theft especially in the Mamey groves.

I remember hearing about mamey thefts in the redland/homestead agriculture area on the news 2 years ago.

An example of a huge mamey plantation and maybe the largest in south florida is Reyes Del Mamey. They've been around since the 1978.

If Reyes del Mamey have the largest grove in Florida, then it's also the largest in the USA.  They are not grown in volume anywhere else in the states.

That makes sense. 

[JF]

What about if the gardener oks it?

JF

[Guanabanus]

I'm one of those who pants well into the easements.   

I also know that the foraging rights of wayfarers have been codified at least since the Books of Moshé--- but with convenience stores every mile or two I don't see the need in suburbs.   

I still yell, "Hey!  That's not your tree, is it?!"  "This isn't a public park!"  "I work Hard to take care of that tree so that I and my family and friends can eat those fruits."  "Why are you destroying my food so that you can have green fruit fights on the street?!"  "If you like those fruits, ask your daddy to plant a tree of it in your yard--- then watch it all the time so that nobody steals the fruits!"

On the other hand, I do do often field requests for "star fruits."  "I will pick some for you.  Meet me by the street." 

On New Year's Day I took about a dozen carambolas to each of 20 neighboring houses:  a few each of 'Sri Kembangan' , 'Kari' , 'Missy', 'HEW-1',  'B-10.'