Author Topic: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?  (Read 38081 times)

HMHausman

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2012, 09:07:13 PM »
They look like clones to me.

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fyliu

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2012, 09:43:47 PM »
I look for the one with umbilical cords that connect to other pieces and that'll be the one from fertilization. Sprouts growing directly from a big piece are clones.

Is it possible for the embyo from fertilization to die and still have a normal fruit? Thinking back at all those mangos with aborted seeds I guess it can happen.

Do mangos require fertilization to set fruit?

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2012, 11:17:43 PM »
Thank you TropicDude, for the link to the research article from Brazil.

Yes, it is the "secondary, weaker plants", the identical-looking clones, that are the most desirable plants to use for rootstocks, so as to achieve uniformity of growth in groves, thus achieving uniformity of care / economy of scale.

Nurserymen do have to patiently wait a few more weeks for the seedlings to achieve sufficient size to be grafted.  And "stone grafting" is not usually a good option, due to inadequate seed reserves available to the clones.

Disentangling 40,000 seeds a year to look for cotyledons and different types of attachments is likely to require more labor expenditures than learning to recognize non-standard leaves.
Har

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2012, 11:33:49 PM »
Thank you TropicDude, for the link to the research article from Brazil.

Yes, it is the "secondary, weaker plants", the identical-looking clones, that are the most desirable plants to use for rootstocks, so as to achieve uniformity of growth in groves, thus achieving uniformity of care / economy of scale.

Nurserymen do have to patiently wait a few more weeks for the seedlings to achieve sufficient size to be grafted.  And "stone grafting" is not usually a good option, due to inadequate seed reserves available to the clones.

Disentangling 40,000 seeds a year to look for cotyledons and different types of attachments is likely to require more labor expenditures than learning to recognize non-standard leaves.

I will use just any old seed for stone graft practice then.  makes sense that if your using the same type seed for rootstock you will eventually know what the leaves should look like, and it will be easy to ID the right sprout. the Manila seed I have that sprouted, came up with only one sprout, so not sure what the deal is here, maybe it wasn't a true Manila, or maybe there is still a chance the others will sprout still. 
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Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2012, 12:25:10 PM »
Sounds good to me  ;D
They look like clones to me.

Harry
Tim

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2012, 02:31:14 PM »
Shame on you guy's...Now, i'm in a knot :'( :blank: 

But, thanks for all them inputs...We will scythe threw this mystery ;)

Can't I plant all them shoot together? Then when the trees start to produce...the off-types will be removed.
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fyliu

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2012, 03:46:25 PM »
Would the leaves be visibly dissimilar between seedlings? If so that would be an easier way to tell.
Would it not be desirable to grow the strongest one and see if it's superior to the mother? What's there to lose? Just graft a scion from the mother plant onto a branch later and you'll have 2 varieties. Name the seedling after yourself.

I'm confused as to whether we're discussing a home growing or nursery growing. It seems to vary between posts. Anyway, if you're a nursery with lots of seeds, snip off the strongest one and the weakest 2 and 99% of the time you end up with a clone. If you're home growing, separate one seed and you'll get several plants. It's not as difficult as it sounds if you do it at the right time.

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2012, 07:11:14 PM »

Is it possible for the embyo from fertilization to die and still have a normal fruit? Thinking back at all those mangos with aborted seeds I guess it can happen.


Yes, it is. This is the reason why poly are preferred in the subtropic, because if the sexual embrio dies from cold, the others can replace it and so you can still get a normal sized fruit.
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fyliu

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2012, 09:30:11 PM »

Is it possible for the embyo from fertilization to die and still have a normal fruit? Thinking back at all those mangos with aborted seeds I guess it can happen.


Yes, it is. This is the reason why poly are preferred in the subtropic, because if the sexual embrio dies from cold, the others can replace it and so you can still get a normal sized fruit.
Would fertilization still have to occur to start the fruit set or is it like a banana where it can go either way?

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2012, 08:29:27 PM »
I guess it is needed.
Think the other way round: if the poly embrios didn't need fertilization to start development, every single fruit on every polyembrionic mango would start to grow, wich simply isn't true. So i guess that poly embrios start to develop at some point after fertilization (not sure when).
But i must admit that i'm guessing here. Still i know as fact that poly have less chances of dropping for aborted seeds.
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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2012, 03:43:52 PM »
Good to know that. I don't have a mango tree anymore but if I ever get started I'll make sure at least one is poly.

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2012, 07:47:47 AM »
An interesting little fact about polyembryony:
It has been observed that some of the monoembryonic varieties may revert to polyembryony when grown under different sets of soil and climatic conditions.
Some of the Indian varieties which were mostly monoembryonic produced more than one seedling in the Philippines.  ???
From:
http://www.ikisan.com/Crop%20Specific/Eng/links/ap_mangoVarieties.shtml
Richard

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2012, 07:21:25 AM »
This would also explain why, my brother coming back from japan this year, brought to me a mango wich was clearly a poly tipe (very long with the classical elephant tusk shape) wich had inside a single mono seed.
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Tropicdude

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2012, 12:07:58 PM »
Quote
the Manila seed I have that sprouted, came up with only one sprout, so not sure what the deal is here, maybe it wasn't a true Manila, or maybe there is still a chance the others will sprout still. 

UPDATE:

Almost a month after the original sprouting, the secondary sprout is coming up from this seed.

Any advice on how I can separate them without killing them both? or should I just cut the 1st one off? also when should I do this?
William
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fyliu

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2012, 12:23:41 PM »
Any advice on how I can separate them without killing them both? or should I just cut the 1st one off? also when should I do this?
Put it in a bucket of water and shake the whole thing loose. It reduces the chances of things breaking off. Then pot them up and allow root hairs to grow back.

I'm not sure if there's an optimum time to soak the seedling in water befrore shaking it.

Future

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2014, 09:51:33 PM »
Hi Steven, i have one poly mango i grew from seed--just because it was the only way i could bring it in. It is a cultivar called Harumanis, from Malaysia, there widely considered the best tasting of mangos. As Zands pointed out, the poly seed will produce several sprouts, not all will be poly, some could be mono. Usually the most vigorous sprout is considered the clone. I planted the 2 most vigorous sprouts in one hole. This double tree has been growing great guns for about 9 years, but never flowered. Never, that is, until just now! Let's see if it finally fruits?

What became of this?

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2014, 10:03:55 PM »
Hi Steven, i have one poly mango i grew from seed--just because it was the only way i could bring it in. It is a cultivar called Harumanis, from Malaysia, there widely considered the best tasting of mangos. As Zands pointed out, the poly seed will produce several sprouts, not all will be poly, some could be mono. Usually the most vigorous sprout is considered the clone. I planted the 2 most vigorous sprouts in one hole. This double tree has been growing great guns for about 9 years, but never flowered. Never, that is, until just now! Let's see if it finally fruits?

What became of this?

Never mind.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.msg34244;topicseen#msg34244
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 10:18:49 AM by Future »

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2015, 10:15:11 AM »
I have a poly mango seed that sprouted one strong shoot/plant and 2 scrawny shoots.  From what I read on this thread, the 2 smaller plants are most likely the clones.  What are your experiences?  The 2 smaller sprouts are at least half the size and vigor of the large sprout.
~Jeff

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bsbullie

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2015, 01:53:11 PM »
I have a poly mango seed that sprouted one strong shoot/plant and 2 scrawny shoots.  From what I read on this thread, the 2 smaller plants are most likely the clones.  What are your experiences?  The 2 smaller sprouts are at least half the size and vigor of the large sprout.

Just throw it out and buy a grafted tree...  ;)  ;D 8) :P
- Rob

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2015, 03:33:46 PM »
I have a poly mango seed that sprouted one strong shoot/plant and 2 scrawny shoots.  From what I read on this thread, the 2 smaller plants are most likely the clones.  What are your experiences?  The 2 smaller sprouts are at least half the size and vigor of the large sprout.

Just throw it out and buy a grafted tree...  ;)  ;D 8) :P

Oh, they have grafted mangoes here?   :-[ :P

I was debating whether or not to put a Bsbullie disclaimer on the end of my post--should've went with that idea.

~Jeff

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2015, 03:34:58 PM »
I have a poly mango seed that sprouted one strong shoot/plant and 2 scrawny shoots.  From what I read on this thread, the 2 smaller plants are most likely the clones.  What are your experiences?  The 2 smaller sprouts are at least half the size and vigor of the large sprout.

Just throw it out and buy a grafted tree...  ;)  ;D 8) :P

Trust me, if this variety was available grafted, I would already have it planted out!

~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

bsbullie

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2015, 05:03:35 PM »
I have a poly mango seed that sprouted one strong shoot/plant and 2 scrawny shoots.  From what I read on this thread, the 2 smaller plants are most likely the clones.  What are your experiences?  The 2 smaller sprouts are at least half the size and vigor of the large sprout.

Just throw it out and buy a grafted tree...  ;)  ;D 8) :P

Trust me, if this variety was available grafted, I would already have it planted out!

It will probably be available as a grafted tree before your tree fruits, assuming you get the right shoot.   ;D :P
- Rob

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2015, 06:21:48 PM »
I haven't read every post on this thread, but is there anywhere I can find a list of polyembryonic mango varieties? I just planted a seed of an ataulfo mango. Very excited to see how it does.
Anisha

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Re: Polyembryonic mango grown from seed...?
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2015, 08:16:33 PM »
I have a poly mango seed that sprouted one strong shoot/plant and 2 scrawny shoots.  From what I read on this thread, the 2 smaller plants are most likely the clones.  What are your experiences?  The 2 smaller sprouts are at least half the size and vigor of the large sprout.

Just throw it out and buy a grafted tree...  ;)  ;D 8) :P

Trust me, if this variety was available grafted, I would already have it planted out!

It will probably be available as a grafted tree before your tree fruits, assuming you get the right shoot.   ;D :P

True, but then it will only be a 3g and i will still have to wait.  I am planting both so should be interesting---i like rolling the dice since I already have lots of grafted trees that I will rely on in time.
~Jeff

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