Moringa oleifera - tips?

[KarenRei]

So the first set of seeds from my latest import have sprouted, and unsurprisingly it was Moringa oleifera (most of the others can take months to germinate).  I searched the forum and not a lot of people here seem to be growing it (I guess because it's mainly grown as a vegetable?), so while it's a tropical, if it's out of line here to ask about it, just let me know (I have the same concerns about asking about my olive, lol, since while it's not cold tolerant, it's not a traditional "tropical" fruiting tree).

The questions aren't specifics, just in general.  I've never grown it before and am wondering if there are any potential pitfalls/common hazards I should be aware of (too much moisture, not enough moisture, deficiencies, etc).  They'll be grown indoors under lights, of course.

(On that subject, any tips for the olive, too, would be appreciated; I just got it recently and it already has flower buds).

[fruitlovers]

With the moringas too much moisture is a problem here. They like to dry out between waterings. They like a lot of sunlight, coming from hot/dry places. Once your plants are established you might like to know that you can duplicate them from large cuttings.

[KarenRei]

Lol, well, every last seed sprouted so I have six already - but if lots of friends want some, that's good to know.  Thanks for the tip on water, too.  I've already been keeping my mango on a reduced watering schedule since they're root-rot sensitive; I'll do the same with my moringas.

[Hollywood]

Oh, I've been looking for M. Oleifera and was also surprised by this forum's lack of posts on it. Good luck and let us know how the recipes turn out.

Katie

[Tropicdude]

Moringa, great tree to have around,  beside all of its nutritional value, its also good as a green manure crop, and also a foliar spray from Moringa leaves is a natural growth stimulant, and has been shown to increase production of fruit trees up to 25%  ( tests done on cashews, and vegetables ) I suspect they may be beneficial on mango trees, but I have not found test done on them yet.

main cultivation tip i can give you it to prune them so they will branch out as much as possible , because their natural tendency is to grow up fast and spindly.  with no pruning the trees are not very attractive and you will get little foliage.

[Hollywood]

If anyone in South Florida sees this and has an extra or some cuttings, I WANT ONE. Contact me.

[KarenRei]

@TropicDude: Thanks!  I'll do just that.

@Hollywood: I grew mine from seeds from Tradewinds Fruit, $2.25 for a pack, and the seeds had been sitting around for over two months before I planted them and I still got 100% germination rate in something like 5 days, and a few days later and they're already ~4 inches high with a pretty spread of leaves.  Basically, what I'm saying is, you may want to consider seeds instead of cuttings. 

[Hollywood]

@TropicDude: Thanks!  I'll do just that.

@Hollywood: I grew mine from seeds from Tradewinds Fruit, $2.25 for a pack, and the seeds had been sitting around for over two months before I planted them and I still got 100% germination rate in something like 5 days, and a few days later and they're already ~4 inches high with a pretty spread of leaves.  Basically, what I'm saying is, you may want to consider seeds instead of cuttings. 

Done. Thanks for the tip!

[fruitlovers]

Moringa, great tree to have around,  beside all of its nutritional value, its also good as a green manure crop, and also a foliar spray from Moringa leaves is a natural growth stimulant, and has been shown to increase production of fruit trees up to 25%  ( tests done on cashews, and vegetables ) I suspect they may be beneficial on mango trees, but I have not found test done on them yet.

main cultivation tip i can give you it to prune them so they will branch out as much as possible , because their natural tendency is to grow up fast and spindly.  with no pruning the trees are not very attractive and you will get little foliage.

Tropicdude, i'd be interested in finding out more about what you say about using moringa as a foliar spray. Do you remember the source of that info? Thanks,

[Fruitzilla]

The questions aren't specifics, just in general.  I've never grown it before and am wondering if there are any potential pitfalls/common hazards I should be aware of (too much moisture, not enough moisture, deficiencies, etc).  They'll be grown indoors under lights, of course.

I have several Moringa's and I can add that to make them full you will want to pinch off top growth AND prune the early stems back about half way.  Otherwise, they will be tall and lanky with few branches and leaves.
I would think growing a Moringa in a pot will be quite difficult in that Moringa's put out a deep tap root.  That deep Tap root is what makes them drought tolerant.  I wonder how the plant will fair without it.

[behlgarden]

KarenRei, which Morinda did you seed? I got Moringa oleifera Hybrid Pkm Hybrid, supposedly the best of the breed seeds from Amazon. They didnt sprout last fall, then soil was too cold.

After I saw your post, I got excited and have soaked few seeds in water now, will germinate then indoors and then transplant them outdoors. The slender fruits/veggie sticks are delicious and very nutritious. If folks dont know, Moringa is one heck of a medicinal plant, if you read about it you will absolutely want to get it.

On Olive, try to not water it too much, it likes dry soil conditions. water once and forget for a while.

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi,

Here's my fav. vid about moringa.
Moringa - The Miracle Tree

Moringa is definitely on my wanted list

[KarenRei]

Behlgarden: Tradewinds didn't label the variety.  I could take pictures, but at this seedling stage, I don't think it'd help much, lol     Thanks for the olive tip. 

Fruitzilla: Thanks for the info about the taproot; I'll be sure to use tall pots wherever possible.  Lots of stores here sell these super-tall, rather narrow pots, which should work well.  Of course I don't want them to get huge, they have to be kept at a manageable size for indoors and I don't need them to be too prolific (I'm not looking to try to establish a market here in Iceland for selling moringa products, lol!).  Ultimately I'll probably only keep one plant, maybe sell the others on bland.is.  Come to think of it, I should probably do that with some of my surplus coffee and dragonfruit plants (I plan to hang onto my spare biriba at least for now, though, lol!)

[Tropicdude]

Moringa, great tree to have around,  beside all of its nutritional value, its also good as a green manure crop, and also a foliar spray from Moringa leaves is a natural growth stimulant, and has been shown to increase production of fruit trees up to 25%  ( tests done on cashews, and vegetables ) I suspect they may be beneficial on mango trees, but I have not found test done on them yet.

main cultivation tip i can give you it to prune them so they will branch out as much as possible , because their natural tendency is to grow up fast and spindly.  with no pruning the trees are not very attractive and you will get little foliage.

Tropicdude, i'd be interested in finding out more about what you say about using moringa as a foliar spray. Do you remember the source of that info? Thanks,

Sorry Oscar, took so long to reply on this, I never came back to this thread.

I have not been able to find tests done specifically on Mango, and I have been ltrying to learn all I can on phytohomones in mangoes.

The Zeatins in moringa are growth simulators cytokinins group, this is the hormone that depending on its ratio / balance with Auxins and Gibberellins, is what tilts the preference whether you will get more vegetative growth or florescence.

Timing seems to be the key here,  my best guesstimate would be around the same time one would spray KNO3 but I am still looking into this.

I also found out that KN03 is really not necessary as its only the nitrogen that is really needed to start inflorescence in mangoes ( That was confirmed in Mexico ) 

My interest in this is to find a natural organic alternative to potassium nitrate to stimulate and/or increase flowering.  and also to see if I can speed along my mangosteen plants as I was told by an expert that the G.mangostana slowness is due to its strong growth retardants, and he was able to get his seedlings to fruit after 5 years ( using some fancy product from Europe, organic amino acid and hormonal formula ).

I came back to this thread because I am interested in finding seeds for the Moringa hybrid PKM-1 and/or PKM-2 varieties, and was hoping someone knows where to get them in the US?

Echo has them but not listed in their online store, and the only other place I can find them is in India in 1000 seed packs min.

In case anyone is wondering what these are, PKM-1 is a hybrid bred to be used as an annual , it can produce pods in as little as 8 months, and is semi dwarf, and bushy.

PKM-2 is an improved version of the normal Moringa,

both varieties have better production and are supposed to have no bitter taste. with increased lateral growth.

[Future]

I am a huge fan on moringa.  I have the "regular" one and the PKM1.  I concur with extreme cutting and pinching.  This plant, once established, thrives on abuse.  My potted ones have not done well.  In the ground, they can get to 6ft in 6 months.  Cut the main stem as required.  I have one in the front yard that has about a 6 inch trunk after 2 years.  I keep it as part of a hedge (though not a great hedge plant for windy places as it loses leaves easily in high winds.  Does recover quickly though).  We don't have pods yet but we dry the leaves and also make a tincture from them.  I find it very potent.  I got my first flowers after 3 years but they didn't set pods.

There are dozens of uses for this free and it has amazing nutritional content.  Edible leaves, flowers, pods, seeds and even roots (not reccomended though due to alkaloids). 

Note plants grow from cuttings will not be anchored as well due to a lack of tap roots.

I have grown from cuttings after simply pruning.  No special treatment, just stuck a branch in an empty pot.  Weeks later it had leaves.

[Tropicdude]

@future

Yep I am a big fan also, I have some seeds which I plan on planting this weekend, ovallifolia and stenopetala my first trees (oleifolia ) I gave all away, because as you said they don't do well in pots.

Although i have been messing around with moringa for a few years only recently has it become popular here in the DR. after a news report on TV, now folks are selling branches of the tree at street corners.

My interest was in agroforestry and nutrition for the arid regions and poor folks in those areas. 

the trees do grow here I have seen them all over, most people do not know of there benefits, they are usually just used as to make natural fencing.

Another good use is to use in intercroping, now my interest is in the possibility of its use as a foliar spray, 

just blend up some young leaves in a bit of water, set overnight, then strain through a cloth,  dilute with water 30 to 1.   that's it, spray on your veggies and tree.   as I mentioned in last port , i'm trying to figure out best time to spray on fruiting trees, but for young trees I would spray often,  from what I read on tests with some plants once very 2 weeks seems optimum.

I am also thinking that if I had a worm bin that moringa could be an excellent food, I imagine the compost would be super, because of all the nutrients and minerals found in moringa.

[Ethan]

For PKM-1 and regular seeds you might try?

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1735.0

-Ethan

[carraig]

For PKM-1 and regular seeds you might try?

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1735.0

-Ethan

Thanks Ethan!

Moringa was one of our first exotic plants we brought to bear and has remained special to us as a result.  We keep M. oleifera (wild, PKM-I, PKM-II), M. ovalifolia, M. stenopetala, and M. hildebrandtii.

Since the question was about M. oleifera, I will focus on that one.

First, it is important to note the difference between wild Moringa and annual Moringa types.  Names varieties of Moringa are typically annual types that are grown more like papaya.  They have a couple years of productivity and the fields are leveled every 3rd or 4th year.  Annual varieties stay smaller, are far more productive, but also don't live nearly as long.  Annual varieties are also much harder to propagate from cuttings (or we're just not doing it right).

Like Oscar said, Moringa does not like too much water.  None of the species in their wild state do well with heavy, or even moderate watering regimes.  M. oleifera is more tolerant than the other varieties, and the annual types of M. oleifera are more tolerant still.  In fact, we have found that PKM-I and PKM-II Moringa do well regardless of how much water they get.

For potted culture, all Moringa species, if started from seed, can do fine in pots.  The problem is that they naturally want to send out this massive tap root which becomes more sensitive the older the plant gets.  We pinch off just the tip of the tap root when we transplant Moringa seedlings for the first time.  If done correctly, the tap root stops growing and a much better fine-root system develops.  There are always a small percentage that do not recover, and those that do recover have never been successfully transplanted into an in-ground plot.  It seems that when planted in our hard Texas ground they really rely on that tap root.  We grow and fruit our M. oleifera in 3gal pots for the 2 year life cycle before starting over.

While I would like to say we get a lot of pods, the flowers have become the family's favorite part of the plant and the resulting harvest is usually limited as a result.  Fresh flowers, sweet and spicy, are easily the best tasting part of the M. oleifera.  Leaves are great, especially cooked, though not as good as M. stenopetala.  Fresh beans are good from the PKM varieties, but pretty bitter from the wild Moringa.  Cooked bean pods taste about the same from any of them.

Feel free to ask any additional questions.

Regards,
Carraig

[luc]

I have one in the ground for a few years now , not doing well due to too much shade , would transplanting kill the tree ?
Was never successful with cuttings and seeds , probably too much water...I'll never learn....

[carraig]

I have one in the ground for a few years now , not doing well due to too much shade , would transplanting kill the tree ?
Was never successful with cuttings and seeds , probably too much water...I'll never learn....

Moringa really relies on its taproot.  Recommend starting new ones from seed rather than trying to transplant.  In your climate, the annual varieties would be better and could be grown on a 2-3 year rotation like papaya.

Regards,
-carraig

[cyclonenat]

carraig did you get my pm?

[Guanabanus]

Here in Florida, seeds of two or more species of Moringa are readily mail-orderable from Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization (ECHO), near Fort Myers.

[Tropicdude]

I found some PKM-1 on Ebay from a seller in India.  25 seeds for 5 buck including shipping.  so hopefully these will get here un harmed.    I was just wondering though,  since these are hybrids,  when I re-plant the seeds from them, will they come up true to type or revert back to original form from one of its parents?

I have seen them be called Hybrids, Supergenus strain , and cultivar,  so not sure what the deal is.  I will assume though that they could cross with regular Moringa, and should be kept away from them if one is to save seeds.

[Future]

I ordered from the same source with success.  Yes, plants should be segregated.  The hybrid question, I don't know.  Some call pkm1 a selection, not a hybrid.

[nullzero]

I have a good amount of variation between the seeds;

Moringa#1, Larger elongated leaves


Moringa#2, Smaller rounder leaves


Moringa PKM1

[ericalynne]

I have been growing moringa for years. In the ground and now in pots. In my experience, moringa does not grow well from young cuttings. However, if you have a large tree (and they can get large fast) you can cut out part of the big (as in six inches diameter) roots and get new plants from that. My one moringa in Naples grew so much and so fast I was constantly cutting it down and chopping up the roots. I brought a chunk of root from Naples (zone 10) and it grows in a pot here (Venus zone 9).

The most interesting thing I read about moringa, that has not already been mentioned, is that in some places it is grown up to about 4 feet and then harvested and allowed to grow up again, over and over, so there is constantly a fresh harvest of leaves. Of course this does not produce flowers and seed pods, but is an interesting method of vegetable production.

Erica

[CTMIAMI]

We are just beginning to grow this plant. It would be nice to hear how other people eat or use this plant. We are planing to add leaves to our salad and add to eggs like spinach. Any other suggestions?   We could be a while before we get pods.

[RodneyS]

You can also dry the leaves for tea.

[Future]

I have seen short trees, kept to 5 ft that have flowered.

[Tropicdude]

I plan on drying leaves to make a powder, and find a recipe for the pods that I may like.  make tea from the flowers for colds etc.  another use is, to grind up some leaves in a blender with water to make a concentrate, then mix at a 30 to 1 ratio with water, and spray on your plants, its a natural growth stimulant, and seems to have ant fungal properties ( Powdery mildew ).

That plant has many medicinal properties,  many have been substantiated by respectable establishments.

Although the root is medicinal, and edible, its advised to not to use it, as there can be a nerve toxin present,  and the flowers / bark should not be used by pregnant women.   

Some Moringa recipes
http://www.miracletrees.org/moringarecipes.html
http://www.moringachef.com/en/moringa-recipes/

Now for the Medicinal properties, and the parts used.

Moringa oleifera: A Review of the Medical Evidence for Its Nutritional, Therapeutic, and Prophylactic Properties. Part 1.
Jed W. Fahey, Sc.D.
Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Department of Pharmacology and Molecular Sciences

http://moringamalunggay.com/John_Hopkins.pdf

[Future]

I advise mixing the powder with other liquids or foods, or consuming a relatively small quantity to begin with. On an empty stomach too much can produce significant discomfort in the bowels.  Trust me.

[Guanabanus]

My late father used to put powdered Moringa leaf on his breakfast cereal (both hot or dry), and also in his liquified meals--- everything that everyone else was eating at the table, dumped together into a blender, with several strong-tasting additives, such as curry powder.  The least unpalatable of his creations were his green drinks, which often included Moringa.

[lkailburn]

Great info. this is a newly growing addition to my collection. Love hearing about all the health benefits and culinary uses!

-Luke

[Hollywood]

I just hauled in a couple branches to blend the leaves with water for a foliar feed tomorrow. Anyone have suggestions for measurements? I was just going to eyeball it- maybe 1 cup for 3 gallons?

I am also using my backpack sprayer tomorrow for the first time, so I am pretty psyched. My husband thinks I look like I stepped out of Ghostbusters.

As for eating, I have been cooking moringa for the family a couple times each week for a few months now. I always throw it into a soup or stew, or a wet dish like lentils or beans. If you try to stir fry it, the little bits of stem attached to the leaves are kind of brittle and chewy, and not in a good way. None of the flowers set fruit but that is ok because the flowers are the most delicious part! The flowers are great cooked or raw. The leaves are much stronger and spicier than arugula when raw. I am an arugula fan and I love spices, but still...I definitely prefer moringa leaves cooked.

[Tropicdude]

The recipe I have seen online is to grind 10kg of Moringa per with one liter of water.  to make an extract.  this extract is then strained  and diluted 30:1 with water.    but that recipe is for making huge batches.

So try and scale it down,   10 parts moringa, to 1 part water, then dilute by adding 30 parts water to the final product.  but I always get a bit confused when mixing weight and volume measurements lol, best to err on the weak side.

[Hollywood]

Ok, so that would be about 1/2 cup for 3 gallons. Do you add anything else like seaweed extract at the same time, or would that be redundant (and therefore too strong)?

[Xisca]

I have been growing it for 2 years.
I have 2 nice trees that I had to shorten last year. They are still not bushy. They almost die every winter though I have 10°C! The young ones, 1 year old, that looked dead though I knew they were not, are starting to grow now.

About water: very strange: a little dry and they shed leaves, and they seem to prefer a regular watering! I gave one to a neighbour, and it did not do well in a dry bad soil.

I also recommend to collect often, before the leaves get older, yellow and fall.
Mines flowered but never gave me any pod. I guess I am "too cold", or else there is a pollination problem.

its also good as a green manure crop

I do not think so, because they do better in a good soil, and because they are NOT A LEGUME. They are brassicales, so they are more related to cabbage and radish, hence their taste!

They have pods, but they are not in the pea family at all.
Still puzzling me, this is a strange plant...

[Tropicdude]

Ok, so that would be about 1/2 cup for 3 gallons. Do you add anything else like seaweed extract at the same time, or would that be redundant (and therefore too strong)?

Yeah it could be too strong.  its hard to know for sure how much of any active ingredient is in any home grown preparation.  so trial and error may be in order, ( but with as little error as possible    ).   my understanding is that both seaweed and Moringa have hormones mainly Cytokinins ( zeatin ). although they do differ in other nutrients that also benefit plants.

[ggpalms]

Moringa Medicinal Plant Testimonial

http://www.bestmoringatrees.com

[Luisport]

Hi,

Here's my fav. vid about moringa.
Moringa - The Miracle Tree

Moringa is definitely on my wanted list

Hi my friend, if you want moringa seeds i can send you. Let me know if you want it! 

[zands]

 ggpalms

    I have been to his nursery Pepe's Fruit Trees and he has lots of moringa coming along. 6 ft high and more. He might be the largest grower and seller in Broward. http://www.pepesplants.com/

I have a little one from him that is indestructible

[Tropicdude]

My single tree, I have planted in the ground, got cut in half last weekend.  it was already about 7-8 ft tall, but kind of thin and was starting to lean over.  it should start branching now.   this is the PKM-1 variety. which I intend to let mature enough for the pods and seeds.

[greenman62]

i think they are high in oxalic acid ?
This is not a problem with dry leaves, cooked,  or powder,
but i sometimes pinch off the tops of my 5ft tree, and the taste is bitter, which i think is oxalic acid
Something you dont want to eat too much of (a little is OK, its in spinach)

Oxalic acid = 101mg per 100 grams - 1.6%

is this high ?
too high to eat a lot of fresh leaves, or not ?
Brad

[thao]

My single tree, I have planted in the ground, got cut in half last weekend.  it was already about 7-8 ft tall, but kind of thin and was starting to lean over.  it should start branching now.   this is the PKM-1 variety. which I intend to let mature enough for the pods and seeds.

William,
When did you planted your PKM-1 seeds? This variety, does flower in 6+ months and should produce the fruit pods with in that time period as well. My mom's PKM-1, she started from seeds earlier this February, has been flowering on and off, since this past June(5 months, so one less month, then describe about this variety), but never set any pods. Might be the lack of pollinator in my hot and arid environment. If, it had flowered in the spring, might have set a couple rounds of pods already. Her's was about, the same height as yours, before you cut it in half. Maybe, you should have cut it to about a foot above ground, for a more bushy growing effect. But, don't forget to pinch the tips also, like other trees to, because, it will grow back just as lanky, if not properly maintain. One last mention, keep a few none cut/pinch branches and let them get to maturity,, because, those none pinch ones, will be the one to flowered and set fruit, not the new growth, unless you let them get mature enough.

[Luisport]

i think they are high in oxalic acid ?
This is not a problem with dry leaves, cooked,  or powder,
but i sometimes pinch off the tops of my 5ft tree, and the taste is bitter, which i think is oxalic acid
Something you dont want to eat too much of (a little is OK, its in spinach)

Oxalic acid = 101mg per 100 grams - 1.6%

is this high ?
too high to eat a lot of fresh leaves, or not ?
Brad

Moringa don't have oxalic acid in the leaves... maby in trunk

[Tropicdude]

My single tree, I have planted in the ground, got cut in half last weekend.  it was already about 7-8 ft tall, but kind of thin and was starting to lean over.  it should start branching now.   this is the PKM-1 variety. which I intend to let mature enough for the pods and seeds.

William,
When did you planted your PKM-1 seeds? This variety, does flower in 6+ months and should produce the fruit pods with in that time period as well. My mom's PKM-1, she started from seeds earlier this February, has been flowering on and off, since this past June(5 months, so one less month, then describe about this variety), but never set any pods. Might be the lack of pollinator in my hot and arid environment. If, it had flowered in the spring, might have set a couple rounds of pods already. Her's was about, the same height as yours, before you cut it in half. Maybe, you should have cut it to about a foot above ground, for a more bushy growing effect. But, don't forget to pinch the tips also, like other trees to, because, it will grow back just as lanky, if not properly maintain. One last mention, keep a few none cut/pinch branches and let them get to maturity,, because, those none pinch ones, will be the one to flowered and set fruit, not the new growth, unless you let them get mature enough.

Thanks for the "tips" .

I think its about 6-8 months old. but it was originally in a 1 gallon, where i left it way too long, after I transplanted into the ground it did nothing for almost 3 months.  in the last two months or so, it shot up big time.   I guess it was working on its root system during that earlier period. 

Keep me up to date on the progress of your moms tree.  I read that the PKM have more uniform pods, that are longer.  also more productive.

[thao]

My single tree, I have planted in the ground, got cut in half last weekend.  it was already about 7-8 ft tall, but kind of thin and was starting to lean over.  it should start branching now.   this is the PKM-1 variety. which I intend to let mature enough for the pods and seeds.

William,
When did you planted your PKM-1 seeds? This variety, does flower in 6+ months and should produce the fruit pods with in that time period as well. My mom's PKM-1, she started from seeds earlier this February, has been flowering on and off, since this past June(5 months, so one less month, then describe about this variety), but never set any pods. Might be the lack of pollinator in my hot and arid environment. If, it had flowered in the spring, might have set a couple rounds of pods already. Her's was about, the same height as yours, before you cut it in half. Maybe, you should have cut it to about a foot above ground, for a more bushy growing effect. But, don't forget to pinch the tips also, like other trees to, because, it will grow back just as lanky, if not properly maintain. One last mention, keep a few none cut/pinch branches and let them get to maturity,, because, those none pinch ones, will be the one to flowered and set fruit, not the new growth, unless you let them get mature enough.

Thanks for the "tips" .

I think its about 6-8 months old. but it was originally in a 1 gallon, where i left it way too long, after I transplanted into the ground it did nothing for almost 3 months.  in the last two months or so, it shot up big time.   I guess it was working on its root system during that earlier period. 

Keep me up to date on the progress of your moms tree.  I read that the PKM have more uniform pods, that are longer.  also more productive.

No problem, If they mange to set any fruit before being cut down this fall. For my area, they will have to be cut down and root protected like bananas, due to being too cold sensitive and we also get frost 1-3 times each winter, especially during January. But, it has been rather warm lately this past few years, and last year, the coldest was also in January, with a low of 28F once only, so I hope this winter will be similar or warmer. I'll post up pictures, if they fruit successfully some time soon, that is if yours don't fruit before then.